Paint issues on 2013 Canyon Nerve.
Comments
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The Northern Monkey wrote:Painey wrote:The new bike has come close to falling apart on me more than once, the suspension pivots working themselves loose to the point where the rear was barely held on. Also friend of mine has a Nerve XC and where his Thule carrier grips the downtube it's worn through the anodised finish on the frame.
Seriously?
Both those issues are down to the user, not Canyon.
How on earth are suspension pivots working themselves loose, the fault of the person riding the bike??
I'm sorry but paint issues aside, I don't know where you're coming from if you think it's acceptable that a new bike should suffer problems like these under very little standard use. :roll:
And as for the paint/anodised finish, it's understandable for it to degrade with wear and tear but the point is it's disappointing that it can happen after so little use. Otherwise people wouldn't be seeing these problems so soon which suggests poor build quality. It's not as if we're talking about bikes that are years old is it?0 -
Unless the OP sandpapered his bike I can't see how that level of degradation can be acceptable.
As a comparison, I have had my giant since september. It's be used probably a couple of dozen times including wet/muddy conditions. I have had three significant falls, one which resulted in a new rear hanger and one which damaged the handlebars. The only areas of paint loss are on the crank arms where I have rubbed off the deore decals with my shoes. The top tube has some minor rub marks which polished out via the use of muc-off polish.0 -
You need to check them, and everything else - bolts etc can loosen.Painey wrote:
How on earth are suspension pivots working themselves loose, the fault of the person riding the bike??I don't do smileys.
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To the OP try and get someone in the spraying trade (one with experience with anodising) to get a professional opinion regarding the paint on your bike.0
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cooldad wrote:
You need to check them, and everything else - bolts etc can loosen.Painey wrote:
How on earth are suspension pivots working themselves loose, the fault of the person riding the bike??
Last time it happened I added blue threadlock to all the bolts to hopefully stop it happening again. Have to admit I wondered why this isn't done when they build them?0 -
Painey wrote:cooldad wrote:
You need to check them, and everything else - bolts etc can loosen.Painey wrote:
How on earth are suspension pivots working themselves loose, the fault of the person riding the bike??
Last time it happened I added blue threadlock to all the bolts to hopefully stop it happening again. Have to admit I wondered why this isn't done when they build them?
Which is what I was getting at. Bolts work themselves loose, especially with all the vibrations you get on the trail.. so you can't blame Canyon for that.
I assumed you hadn't sent the bike back or you would have said.
Loctite was the right idea, if it does loosen again then yes, there may be an issue.
I check all my pivots, brake bolts and steering bolts probably once a week... takes approx 5 mins!0 -
The Northern Monkey wrote:Painey wrote:cooldad wrote:
You need to check them, and everything else - bolts etc can loosen.Painey wrote:
How on earth are suspension pivots working themselves loose, the fault of the person riding the bike??
Last time it happened I added blue threadlock to all the bolts to hopefully stop it happening again. Have to admit I wondered why this isn't done when they build them?
Which is what I was getting at. Bolts work themselves loose, especially with all the vibrations you get on the trail.. so you can't blame Canyon for that.
I assumed you hadn't sent the bike back or you would have said.
Loctite was the right idea, if it does loosen again then yes, there may be an issue.
I check all my pivots, brake bolts and steering bolts probably once a week... takes approx 5 mins!
Well you could blame Canyon for that because they didn't build the bike to withstand for a reasonable time the ability for their bike to handle the terrain and the impacts that has, a solution was loctite installed by the customer not the manufacturer.
You buy a new car, the bumper falls off after 1000 miles, is that your fault because you didn't check the bolts or the manufacturers because they didn't install the bolts with loctite?
I know it isn't probably seen as the expectation for mountain bikes to have this level of build quality but why isn't it, it is for cars and going by the roads of today they suffer just as much. Simply put you expect car bolts to be secure but not an expensive mountain bike, why is that?0 -
Bolts on cars are generally much bigger so can be tightened to a greater torque without causing damage or failure of the bolt or threads, as well as being able to have bigger tightening surfaces. On MTB there is no engine so smaller bolts to save weight and shorter check/retorque intervals are more sensible.Briggo wrote:I know it isn't probably seen as the expectation for mountain bikes to have this level of build quality but why isn't it, it is for cars and going by the roads of today they suffer just as much. Simply put you expect car bolts to be secure but not an expensive mountain bike, why is that?
Whereas it would be seen as incredibly unlikely for a bolt on a car to work its way loose whilst driving, periodic checks are still required by the owner.
Edit: meant to say unlikely not unsafe.0 -
As above.
It does happen on cars too though. Generally, most people don't have the skill or tools to check all of the fastening components on cars effectively, hence why we have the yearly MOT and service schedules and checks set out by manufacturers.
Read pretty much any MTB manual and somewhere it will say 'check bolts before each ride' or similar.0 -
Reply from Canyon today offering me to send the bike back to them to be examined.
....... at the cost of £200.
Funnily enough I declined that generous offer and have contacted the credit card co.Whyte 9050 -
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KernowCB wrote:We obviously have the completely opposite view on this. No point arguing about it, we'll see what Canyon do.
Ok. So say you're right, I'm wrong...
What do expect them to do realistically?
1) Replace the bike/frame... You go weeks without the bike and you're just going to end up with exactly the same problem then it's back to square one.
2) Take the bike/frame for inspection, decide they will repaint it. You go weeks without the bike and once it's been redone, same problem and it's back to square one.
3) Pay you enough to go and get it redone (can't see them doing this as if i was the manufacturer, my t's and c's would be that I want to inspect the bike to make sure it is defective) and unless you protect the frame, same problem... you see where I'm going with this.
£50 is very reasonable I think, go and buy a tin of spray paint and some masking tape, and touch it up yourself, with the left over cash get some helitape and cover the tube in it. Problem solved.
If Canyon do decide to give you anymore or replace the frame, then I would say, that is some fantastic customer service.
I appreciate it is annoying, it would upset me, but at the end of the day I'd put the blame on myself for not protecting my pride and joy!
EDIT: It would appear I took too long typing this out... and their reply was very much as I thought. I think getting the credit card company involved is a bit too far. It's not a defective product, if it was you'd have sent it back to Canyon and they would have said, "Yup, it's defective. Here is the cost of returning the product and here is a new bike..." They haven't committed fraud, they have offered you a goodwill gesture, the item isn't unfit for purpose... I'm no law expert or even know what other reasons you can get them involved for but, slightly over the top for a nanometer of paint.0 -
Why? Surely all they can do is refer you back to the manufacturers t+c's which Canyon are probably already abiding by.KernowCB wrote:and have contacted the credit card co.
Frankly you're flogging a dead horse here in my opinion, i'd have taken the £50 and just got it resprayed and taped.0 -
Haha, I knew someone would say that.
Because their service so far has been so crap I wouldn't trust them for a fair assessment or to reimburse me money if they did admit a fault. I'm still waiting to be reimbursed for a fault they agreed to pay for back on the 11th of November.Whyte 9050 -
I think we just fundamentally disagree on what the quality of a given product should be.
I don't believe you should spend nearly 1400 pounds and then take a 50 quid voucher (not cash, voucher for Canyon store) and respray a essentially brand new frame yourself.
It's ok to disagree though. It's worth me looking into the credit card route as I'm not happy with the current situation. It's not your money so naturally you're not quite as bothered as I am. I'm unhappy with the product and posted on here to get peoples opinions. You've given yours and it is appreciated even though we disagree. <-- not sarcastic btw.
If it turns out to be one of those things and nothing can be done then so be it. Still annoying though!
I just want to ride a bike!Whyte 9050 -
Update: Since mentioning the credit card to Canyon I've had 3 replies in an hour.
To be fair they are being helpful, I'm not dissatisfied with their service.
They have agreed to pay up to £50 for a local paint workshop to check the bike over. I can't ask for fairer than that and would say that is very good service.Whyte 9050 -
It does look a bit rubbish. I have never bothered heli taping bikes. So far my bikes made by Giant, Specialized, On-One(who are known for poor paint quality) and Nukeproof all still have all their original paint other than a few scratches from crashes and a little cable rub.
The most impressive finish is on the Nukeproof which is anodised and has mega thick stickers which give loads of protection, they are in all the places where the frame would get the most wear so it should stay looking like new for years. More bikes should have ultra-thick stickers. They weigh a few grammes extra but I doubt that it makes any noticeable difference. I think it's an idea taken from motocross bikes.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Fair play to them!KernowCB wrote:Update: Since mentioning the credit card to Canyon I've had 3 replies in an hour.
To be fair they are being helpful, I'm not dissatisfied with their service.
They have agreed to pay up to £50 for a local paint workshop to check the bike over. I can't ask for fairer than that and would say that is very good service.
Get it checked by a friendly shop (give them the full £50 and a pack of biscuits!) and they may well agree with you.
Just make sure you helitape it if it does ever get re-done or if you get the new frame.
Oh, and make sure Canyon send you that replacement downtube protector!0 -
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Fair play to them!
Get it checked by a friendly shop (give them the full £50 and a pack of biscuits!) and they may well agree with you.
Just make sure you helitape it if it does ever get re-done or if you get the new frame.
Oh, and make sure Canyon send you that replacement downtube protector![/quote]
2 lots of helitape ready and waiting!Whyte 9050 -
bennett_346 wrote:
Bolts on cars are generally much bigger so can be tightened to a greater torque without causing damage or failure of the bolt or threads, as well as being able to have bigger tightening surfaces. On MTB there is no engine so smaller bolts to save weight and shorter check/retorque intervals are more sensible.Briggo wrote:I know it isn't probably seen as the expectation for mountain bikes to have this level of build quality but why isn't it, it is for cars and going by the roads of today they suffer just as much. Simply put you expect car bolts to be secure but not an expensive mountain bike, why is that?
Whereas it would be seen as incredibly unlikely for a bolt on a car to work its way loose whilst driving, periodic checks are still required by the owner.
Edit: meant to say unlikely not unsafe.
Isn't that just proportional to the size of the physical item and the weight and forces put against it, a large car would incur hefty thumps against the suspension due to the weight but can have larger bolts as its a bigger car to compensate so are torqued up 'high'
A bike is far smaller and as such the bolts will be too but proportionally with the forces vs the bolts and torque its all at an equal stand?
No idea not an engineer, just a query, that's how I see it in my uncomplicated brain.
Reason I question this is because not once in 2.5 years of ownership and many many rough rides of my Stumpy have I ever checked a bolt or had the need to retighten, only ever touched them when fixing the bike which isn't often so I don't buy that argument that the bolts are expected to come loose.0 -
I've really no idea what you meant by "proportionally with the forces vs the bolts and torque its all at an equal stand".Briggo wrote:bennett_346 wrote:
Bolts on cars are generally much bigger so can be tightened to a greater torque without causing damage or failure of the bolt or threads, as well as being able to have bigger tightening surfaces. On MTB there is no engine so smaller bolts to save weight and shorter check/retorque intervals are more sensible.Briggo wrote:I know it isn't probably seen as the expectation for mountain bikes to have this level of build quality but why isn't it, it is for cars and going by the roads of today they suffer just as much. Simply put you expect car bolts to be secure but not an expensive mountain bike, why is that?
Whereas it would be seen as incredibly unlikely for a bolt on a car to work its way loose whilst driving, periodic checks are still required by the owner.
Edit: meant to say unlikely not unsafe.
Isn't that just proportional to the size of the physical item and the weight and forces put against it, a large car would incur hefty thumps against the suspension due to the weight but can have larger bolts as its a bigger car to compensate so are torqued up 'high'
A bike is far smaller and as such the bolts will be too but proportionally with the forces vs the bolts and torque its all at an equal stand?
No idea not an engineer, just a query, that's how I see it in my uncomplicated brain.
Reason I question this is because not once in 2.5 years of ownership and many many rough rides of my Stumpy have I ever checked a bolt or had the need to retighten, only ever touched them when fixing the bike which isn't often so I don't buy that argument that the bolts are expected to come loose.
All I mean is that it is beyond the normal capability and expectation of the average car consumer to check every nut and bolt for torque regularly but not so for the average owner of a mountain bike. A car to most people is a tool, whereas a bike is a hobby item and is more likely to have time spent on it. Is it really difficult to stick a torque wrench in your pivots every few months? Is it harder to check the bolts on a lower control arm on a car? I'd say yes and since weight is less critical they can get away with being bigger and tighter bolts. It is the mtb consumer that has pushed the manufacturer for lower weights.0 -
This issue about the pivot bolts coming loose.
The main ones were on the front of the chainstays, most notably the drive side one. It worked completely loose to the point of coming out. This happened after maybe 200 miles of riding around the South Downs and Surrey Hills, hardly difficult terrain.
This problem couldn't be fixed on the trail as I didn't have the tools required to remove the whole chainset in order to access it. I carry a lot of tools with me but never felt the need to carry those.
I have since thread locked all the pivot bolts as several were loose. Whilst I hope this problem never comes back, I cannot accept that as an acceptable level of build quality and especially on a near £3k bike, and I wouldn't expect anybody else to either.
Yes, bolts can come loose and I accept it's any riders responsibility to check their bike is safe to ride. But Canyon marketed the Nerve AM (or AL+ as it is now) as a tough, all mountain trail bike that's built to take some punishment. On that basis I would struggle to see why anybody wouldn't be surprised at such a failure after so little use. Do they not have quality control?
You're free to your opinion about what's to be expected but I doubt I'm in the minority of thinking their build quality is questionable at best. I have always maintained that it is a great bike though so I guess it's just worth remembering that it came at a decent price.
Cheers0 -
Why is it the expectation just because its deemed a hobby that's irrelevant, as I mentioned I've never touched my bikes other than infrequent repairs. No bolts have suddenly fallen out or pivots come apart mid descent.
The point I'm making is the MTB should be like the car, it's designed to handle the environment it's built for a good period of time, smaller components makes no difference they should still be able to handle it, my bikes sure do and so should the canyon.0 -
Which it does... Now that the bolts are tight.
Not sure what you're trying to get at tbh. The pivots on my Canyon are fine....0 -
They should have been properly threadlocked before it left the factory, yes. But as a matter of course i'd do them all when i got a new bike anyway, regardless of the bike's cost or manufacturer.Painey wrote:Yes, bolts can come loose and I accept it's any riders responsibility to check their bike is safe to ride. But Canyon marketed the Nerve AM (or AL+ as it is now) as a tough, all mountain trail bike that's built to take some punishment. On that basis I would struggle to see why anybody wouldn't be surprised at such a failure after so little use. Do they not have quality control?
@Briggo, i fail to see the relevance of your bike in this. Just because you've never checked the tightness of the bolts and haven't had it come loose yet doesn't mean it isn't the case for others. Different bikes, different terrain, different speeds. Also smaller components do make a difference, how would they possibly not? Consumers want light, and light means softer metal. Softer metal means lower max torque and thus more likely to work loose due to vibration.
As for slagging off Canyon for shoddy quality control, well all i say is you get what you pay for. You pay less, you expect a reason to pay less, simply put. Many people have never had an issue with theirs anyway and most people attest to good QC regardless, but some will slip through the net.0 -
The Canyon manual states to check the bolts every month.0
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My strive 9.0 SL arrived yesterday and everywhere is heletaped ! All done my Canyon themselves! Top tub, down tube and all the cable contact points!
As promised heres a few snaps of the bike
Not bad eh......
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Excited new owner picture overload. Could you rub something harsh over the top tube and report back?0
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97th choice wrote:Excited new owner picture overload. Could you rub something harsh over the top tube and report back?
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