Bike Brand Myopia?

YIMan

Are all bike brands the same to you? Which ones would you not buy, which ones do you lust after and why? Does the brand even matter or is it all about the technology or something else?

I seem to embroil myself in a peculiar type of bike myopia....it's not about what it the lightest, has the best reviews or the best value. I just kind of look at some bikes and go, yeah, it might be great but if it was mine would I look admiringly at it, feel proud riding it....would I feel an association with it or would it just be the equivalent of a hire back that just does the job and could be interchanged with any other "non-brand" and I wouldn't feel any different?

philbar72

don't really care as long as the bike is up to it. bought my bmc because i tried it and it was in my opinion better than the bikes in the same price bracket from the shop i visited..... it looks quirky but is pretty effective. it'll do me.

of course i'd love a better bike but realistically the bike i've got is good enough for now.

cycleclinic

I have never bought a bike/frame becuase of a review. I hardly read them as they are only someones opinion and testing is very subjective. I choose everything based on does it look like it meets my needs. I can tell without even trying it. It also has to look good enough for me to by it. A frameis more than just a frame. It has to be part of me when I ride it, I need to feel connected to it. If I don't get that when I lay eye's on it I won't buy it.

YIMan

What would make a bike look like it meets your needs? Could it be any brand, or only certain brands?

I can look at lots of bikes and think "they look like nice bikes", but I know I wouldn't buy one because they're "not me".

For example, I couldn't see myself buying a Trek, Specialized or Giant.

I probably would buy a Boardman, but I'd rather have a Bianchi or Colnago (only if they're made in Italy though otherwise the DNA is diluted). I have a Genesis that I'm relatively indifferent too, whereas I love my Orange 5 - like you say when I ride it I feel totally connected to it, like it is perfect for me.

YIMan

After further research it's all a big con and I've learned the difference between OBM, ODM and OEM. I aspire to an authentic OEM with heritage but they pretty much do not exist at least for carbon frames.

letap73

YIMan wrote:

After further research it's all a big con and I've learned the difference between OBM, ODM and OEM. I aspire to an authentic OEM with heritage but they pretty much do not exist at least for carbon frames.

What on earth are you on about with regards to DNA? What exactly is wrong with Taiwanese manufacturing and how are Italian built bikes made for mass production -(not custom built) - better?

In answer to your question, a well fitting bike with the ride characteristics you require is more important than considering what brand of bike you buy (ethical consideration aside - use of child labour etc).

YIMan

I'm reading it that you meant "I don't really understand what you mean by DNA, could you explain" rather than the rant you came out with.

By DNA I mean a brand that has some sort of heritage/unique identity and quality - the soul of the bike. In my myopia that's what's unappealing with Taiwanese manufactured bikes - it's nothing to do with quality of manufacture.

LegendLust

YIMan wrote:

I'm reading it that you meant "I don't really understand what you mean by DNA, could you explain" rather than the rant you came out with.

By DNA I mean a brand that has some sort of heritage/unique identity and quality - the soul of the bike. In my myopia that's what's unappealing with Taiwanese manufactured bikes - it's nothing to do with quality of manufacture.

Every brand has to start somewhere. Did Bianchi have heritage in 1885? Give the Taiwanese a few more years and they will have heritage - and racing pedigree.

letap73

YIMan wrote:

I'm reading it that you meant "I don't really understand what you mean by DNA, could you explain" rather than the rant you came out with.

By DNA I mean a brand that has some sort of heritage/unique identity and quality - the soul of the bike. In my myopia that's what's unappealing with Taiwanese manufactured bikes - it's nothing to do with quality of manufacture.

Ok I'll bite - so according to you Giant have no sort of heritage/unique identity and quality (No DNA in your parlance). If this is the case, why have Giant sold so many bikes. Why do the likes of Colnago (C59 excepted), Bianchi et al shifted their production to the far east. The recent sell off of the Cervelo R5 frameset at low prices is only possible due to the Taiwanese (or Chinese?) able to produce this frame at low cost. The R5 Ca produced in California is significantly more expensive and not significantly better than the standard R5. That being said I would be sorry to see the marquee custom frame builders in Italy disappear.

Captainlip

YIMan wrote:

What would make a bike look like it meets your needs? Could it be any brand, or only certain brands?

I can look at lots of bikes and think "they look like nice bikes", but I know I wouldn't buy one because they're "not me".

For example, I couldn't see myself buying a Trek, Specialized or Giant.

I probably would buy a Boardman, but I'd rather have a Bianchi or Colnago (only if they're made in Italy though otherwise the DNA is diluted). I have a Genesis that I'm relatively indifferent too, whereas I love my Orange 5 - like you say when I ride it I feel totally connected to it, like it is perfect for me.

You today sum up 90% of this forums ill ridden users.

You would buy the sh!ttest bike on the road a boardman, but you dream of bianchis or colnago why not save and get one or get a 2nd hand one, but put simply you disregard the three biggest bike brands on the market, and without blowing smoke up treks arse as I know how good they are as I own and ride them not just judge them, all three of them build a better bike for less than a boardman, wiggo himself slated how bad boardmans where and hes getting knighted, yet people on here that think they know a little something about bikes think they are the best thing since sliced bread

im sorry its not just you its most of this forum that gives out shocking advise to people who need it.

queue idiotic responces claiming "troll" or my dicks bigger than yours which is what this forums seems to be about.

YIMan

letap73 wrote:

YIMan wrote:

I'm reading it that you meant "I don't really understand what you mean by DNA, could you explain" rather than the rant you came out with.

By DNA I mean a brand that has some sort of heritage/unique identity and quality - the soul of the bike. In my myopia that's what's unappealing with Taiwanese manufactured bikes - it's nothing to do with quality of manufacture.

Ok I'll bite - so according to you Giant have no sort of heritage/unique identity and quality (No DNA in your parlance). If this is the case, why have Giant sold so many bikes. Why do the likes of Colnago (C59 excepted), Bianchi et al shifted their production to the far east. The recent sell off of the Cervelo R5 frameset at low prices is only possible due to the Taiwanese (or Chinese?) able to produce this frame at low cost. The R5 Ca produced in California is significantly more expensive and not significantly better than the standard R5. That being said I would be sorry to see the marquee custom frame builders in Italy disappear.

Back to the original point about me asking what is important to people - Giant have sold a lot of bikes because they offer good value products to people that don't mind what brand things are. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I'm just interested in the different way people think about bikes.

YIMan

Captainlip wrote:

YIMan wrote:

What would make a bike look like it meets your needs? Could it be any brand, or only certain brands?

I can look at lots of bikes and think "they look like nice bikes", but I know I wouldn't buy one because they're "not me".

For example, I couldn't see myself buying a Trek, Specialized or Giant.

I probably would buy a Boardman, but I'd rather have a Bianchi or Colnago (only if they're made in Italy though otherwise the DNA is diluted). I have a Genesis that I'm relatively indifferent too, whereas I love my Orange 5 - like you say when I ride it I feel totally connected to it, like it is perfect for me.

You today sum up 90% of this forums ill ridden users.

You would buy the sh!ttest bike on the road a boardman, but you dream of bianchis or colnago why not save and get one or get a 2nd hand one, but put simply you disregard the three biggest bike brands on the market, and without blowing smoke up treks ars* as I know how good they are as I own and ride them not just judge them, all three of them build a better bike for less than a boardman, wiggo himself slated how bad boardmans where and hes getting knighted, yet people on here that think they know a little something about bikes think they are the best thing since sliced bread

im sorry its not just you its most of this forum that gives out shocking advise to people who need it.

queue idiotic responces claiming "troll" or my dicks bigger than yours which is what this forums seems to be about.

I wouldn't say the Boardman is the shittest bike on the road...that seems a bit harsh and ill-founded unless a) There are reams of bad reviews out there I haven't seen or b) Lots of people are being paid to write good reviews.

I'm buy a Boardman because they're at least part British.

I don't disregard Trek, Specialized or Giant because they're necessarily bad bikes, the brands just don't do it for me. I definitely wouldn't buy a Trek because I associate it with Armstrong.

A Ford Focus is probably a perfectly decent car and sells loads, but that doesn't mean I want one.

Strith

I'm more for function over form myself and I don't really go in for brand loyalty. My frame was made in the far east, likewise many for the other parts too and thats fine by me. People who consider engineering and manufacturing standards to be somehow lower in Taiwan, etc are clueless in my eyes.

Brand loyalty is quite an interesting subject though, especially with things like bicycles as manufacturers don't really go in for loyalty promotions etc. Similarly when I used to have a sportsbike, people would argue all day long about which was best, yet they were all barely any different.

Anyway that's just my preference, but different strokes n' all. Some of my mates wouldn't be seen dead on anything other than a 'nago. I just smile and thank them when they get the cakes in...

declan1

Captainlip wrote:

YIMan wrote:

What would make a bike look like it meets your needs? Could it be any brand, or only certain brands?

I can look at lots of bikes and think "they look like nice bikes", but I know I wouldn't buy one because they're "not me".

For example, I couldn't see myself buying a Trek, Specialized or Giant.

I probably would buy a Boardman, but I'd rather have a Bianchi or Colnago (only if they're made in Italy though otherwise the DNA is diluted). I have a Genesis that I'm relatively indifferent too, whereas I love my Orange 5 - like you say when I ride it I feel totally connected to it, like it is perfect for me.

You today sum up 90% of this forums ill ridden users.

You would buy the sh!ttest bike on the road a boardman, but you dream of bianchis or colnago why not save and get one or get a 2nd hand one, but put simply you disregard the three biggest bike brands on the market, and without blowing smoke up treks ars* as I know how good they are as I own and ride them not just judge them, all three of them build a better bike for less than a boardman, wiggo himself slated how bad boardmans where and hes getting knighted, yet people on here that think they know a little something about bikes think they are the best thing since sliced bread

im sorry its not just you its most of this forum that gives out shocking advise to people who need it.

queue idiotic responces claiming "troll" or my dicks bigger than yours which is what this forums seems to be about.

I'm sorry, but you're an arsehole. For starters, Boardmans are known to be very good bikes.

You just moan about everyone on this forum, and you really annoy me (and probably a few other people too)...

P.S. http://roadcyclinguk.com/news/gear-news ... -4210.html

arthur_scrimshaw

declan1 wrote:

Captainlip wrote:

YIMan wrote:

What would make a bike look like it meets your needs? Could it be any brand, or only certain brands?

I can look at lots of bikes and think "they look like nice bikes", but I know I wouldn't buy one because they're "not me".

For example, I couldn't see myself buying a Trek, Specialized or Giant.

I probably would buy a Boardman, but I'd rather have a Bianchi or Colnago (only if they're made in Italy though otherwise the DNA is diluted). I have a Genesis that I'm relatively indifferent too, whereas I love my Orange 5 - like you say when I ride it I feel totally connected to it, like it is perfect for me.

You today sum up 90% of this forums ill ridden users.

You would buy the sh!ttest bike on the road a boardman, but you dream of bianchis or colnago why not save and get one or get a 2nd hand one, but put simply you disregard the three biggest bike brands on the market, and without blowing smoke up treks ars* as I know how good they are as I own and ride them not just judge them, all three of them build a better bike for less than a boardman, wiggo himself slated how bad boardmans where and hes getting knighted, yet people on here that think they know a little something about bikes think they are the best thing since sliced bread

im sorry its not just you its most of this forum that gives out shocking advise to people who need it.

queue idiotic responces claiming "troll" or my dicks bigger than yours which is what this forums seems to be about.

I'm sorry, but you're an arsehole. For starters, Boardmans are known to be very good bikes.

You just moan about everyone on this forum, and you really annoy me (and probably a few other people too)...

P.S. http://roadcyclinguk.com/news/gear-news ... -4210.html

There are always a few of these populating the boards, best not to respond or just add them to the ignore list. That way you only get to read their drivel if someone else quotes them

buckmulligan

For once I almost agree with Captain Lip!!!

Whilst Boardman Bikes do receive good reviews, I've ridden a couple myself and from what I've seen they are very boring, middle of the road, soulless bikes. They may tick all of the boxes on the reviewer's score sheet, but I wouldn't enjoy riding one for any length of time. As Lippy said, if you want a Bianchi or Colnago, then buy a second hand one, it'll be 10-times better than a Boardman!

How the hell has noone mentioned this post:

thecycleclinic wrote:

I have never bought a bike/frame becuase of a review. I hardly read them as they are only someones opinion and testing is very subjective. I choose everything based on does it look like it meets my needs. I can tell without even trying it. It also has to look good enough for me to by it. A frameis more than just a frame. It has to be part of me when I ride it, I need to feel connected to it. If I don't get that when I lay eye's on it I won't buy it.

Seriously, WTF?! Are you joking? I don't think I'll be visiting thecycleclinic any time soon...

buckmulligan

In response to the OP, I people suffer from all sorts of prejudices when it comes to brands. Personally I really like the American bike brands, I think they have more of a utilitarian styling than the Italian bikes but I can see why people might not like that.

But I think the biggest contributor is the 'stick-with-what-you-know' attitude, if you've got a bike that fits you well and want to change/upgrade, why risk switching brands where frame geometry etc could be completely different.

Captainlip

YIMan wrote:

Captainlip wrote:

YIMan wrote:

What would make a bike look like it meets your needs? Could it be any brand, or only certain brands?

I can look at lots of bikes and think "they look like nice bikes", but I know I wouldn't buy one because they're "not me".

For example, I couldn't see myself buying a Trek, Specialized or Giant.

I probably would buy a Boardman, but I'd rather have a Bianchi or Colnago (only if they're made in Italy though otherwise the DNA is diluted). I have a Genesis that I'm relatively indifferent too, whereas I love my Orange 5 - like you say when I ride it I feel totally connected to it, like it is perfect for me.

You today sum up 90% of this forums ill ridden users.

You would buy the sh!ttest bike on the road a boardman, but you dream of bianchis or colnago why not save and get one or get a 2nd hand one, but put simply you disregard the three biggest bike brands on the market, and without blowing smoke up treks ars* as I know how good they are as I own and ride them not just judge them, all three of them build a better bike for less than a boardman, wiggo himself slated how bad boardmans where and hes getting knighted, yet people on here that think they know a little something about bikes think they are the best thing since sliced bread

im sorry its not just you its most of this forum that gives out shocking advise to people who need it.

queue idiotic responces claiming "troll" or my dicks bigger than yours which is what this forums seems to be about.

I wouldn't say the Boardman is the shittest bike on the road...that seems a bit harsh and ill-founded unless a) There are reams of bad reviews out there I haven't seen or b) Lots of people are being paid to write good reviews.

I'm buy a Boardman because they're at least part British.

I don't disregard Trek, Specialized or Giant because they're necessarily bad bikes, the brands just don't do it for me. I definitely wouldn't buy a Trek because I associate it with Armstrong.

A Ford Focus is probably a perfectly decent car and sells loads, but that doesn't mean I want one.

Apart from all the other drivvel that has come out of your mouth FYI Armstrong has done more for cycling than anybody in history has done, was he the only one doping? no the fecking ALL were, he just had the best doping team and was the highest profile in the sport.

wiggo has only done 1% armstrong has done for cycling.

the fact you wont buy a trek for the armstrong saga sums up how stupid and selective you really are.

FYI Armstong haters since the saga began..... http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/road/product/review-trek-madone-52-12-46728

I will never buy a boardman for the fact a UK star is just trying to cash in with sub standard bikes.

alihisgreat

Captainlip wrote:

YIMan wrote:

Captainlip wrote:

YIMan wrote:

What would make a bike look like it meets your needs? Could it be any brand, or only certain brands?

I can look at lots of bikes and think "they look like nice bikes", but I know I wouldn't buy one because they're "not me".

For example, I couldn't see myself buying a Trek, Specialized or Giant.

I probably would buy a Boardman, but I'd rather have a Bianchi or Colnago (only if they're made in Italy though otherwise the DNA is diluted). I have a Genesis that I'm relatively indifferent too, whereas I love my Orange 5 - like you say when I ride it I feel totally connected to it, like it is perfect for me.

You today sum up 90% of this forums ill ridden users.

You would buy the sh!ttest bike on the road a boardman, but you dream of bianchis or colnago why not save and get one or get a 2nd hand one, but put simply you disregard the three biggest bike brands on the market, and without blowing smoke up treks ars* as I know how good they are as I own and ride them not just judge them, all three of them build a better bike for less than a boardman, wiggo himself slated how bad boardmans where and hes getting knighted, yet people on here that think they know a little something about bikes think they are the best thing since sliced bread

im sorry its not just you its most of this forum that gives out shocking advise to people who need it.

queue idiotic responces claiming "troll" or my dicks bigger than yours which is what this forums seems to be about.

I wouldn't say the Boardman is the shittest bike on the road...that seems a bit harsh and ill-founded unless a) There are reams of bad reviews out there I haven't seen or b) Lots of people are being paid to write good reviews.

I'm buy a Boardman because they're at least part British.

I don't disregard Trek, Specialized or Giant because they're necessarily bad bikes, the brands just don't do it for me. I definitely wouldn't buy a Trek because I associate it with Armstrong.

A Ford Focus is probably a perfectly decent car and sells loads, but that doesn't mean I want one.

Apart from all the other drivvel that has come out of your mouth FYI Armstrong has done more for cycling than anybody in history has done, was he the only one doping? no the ******* ALL were, he just had the best doping team and was the highest profile in the sport.

wiggo has only done 1% armstrong has done for cycling.

the fact you wont buy a trek for the armstrong saga sums up how stupid and selective you really are.

FYI Armstong haters since the saga began..... http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/road/product/review-trek-madone-52-12-46728

I will never buy a boardman for the fact a UK star is just trying to cash in with sub standard bikes.

You don't have to justify your trek purchase by defending Pharmstrong.. we all know its a great bike (apart from the odd brake positioning).

Skeleton_Sharn

Cannondale. The name looks the best on the downtube 8)

bernithebiker

Captainlip wrote:

You today sum up 90% of this forums ill ridden users.

You would buy the sh!ttest bike on the road a boardman, but you dream of bianchis or colnago why not save and get one or get a 2nd hand one, but put simply you disregard the three biggest bike brands on the market, and without blowing smoke up treks ars* as I know how good they are as I own and ride them not just judge them, all three of them build a better bike for less than a boardman, wiggo himself slated how bad boardmans where and hes getting knighted, yet people on here that think they know a little something about bikes think they are the best thing since sliced bread

im sorry its not just you its most of this forum that gives out shocking advise to people who need it.

queue idiotic responces claiming "troll" or my dicks bigger than yours which is what this forums seems to be about.

More Prime clap trap. You destroy any credibility you might have by saying a Boardman is the s****t bike on the road, when clearly it is not, however bad it may or may not be. Try to be objective. What is wrong with it exactly?

I'd happily bet £100 that if I put you blindfold on a Boardman, and then your Trek - same position, same wheels, etc. you would struggle to tell the difference.

The magazines come out with so much crap about how this or that frame is incredibly fast, or incredibly comfortable, when really there is a gnat's whisker between all of them.

I stumped up extra cash for my Spesh, but is it tons better than a Boardman, Trek, Bianchi, etc? No. But I love the look of it and I wanted the reliability of a big company behind me (quality wise), and I had the cash spare so went for it.

As for all your spouting about Armstrong - I was a big fan too - I read all his books and believed him when he swore he was clean, saying 'after the chemo I went through I could never put any drugs, syringes near my body'. What a load of horses**t that was. That's what I hate most, the lies.

Captainlip

You are kidding me arent you? or thats the biggest load of drivvel ive heard on here in a couple of days.

comparing trek and boardman are like a peugeot an audi, you sir are very inexperianced in this field.

YIMan

Captainlip wrote:

Apart from all the other drivvel that has come out of your mouth FYI Armstrong has done more for cycling than anybody in history has done, was he the only one doping? no the ******* ALL were, he just had the best doping team and was the highest profile in the sport.

wiggo has only done 1% armstrong has done for cycling.

the fact you wont buy a trek for the armstrong saga sums up how stupid and selective you really are.

FYI Armstong haters since the saga began..... http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/road/product/review-trek-madone-52-12-46728

I will never buy a boardman for the fact a UK star is just trying to cash in with sub standard bikes.

Classic, just laden with irony.

By the way, I've never liked Armstrong so you just wasted a whole rant.

MountainMonster

Somebody has seriously got to ban captain lip,his posts are nothing but ridiculous drivel each time he posts.

Aces_up1504

Ok being reading this forum for a little while and felt this was a good thread to join in on.

I am new to cycling and awaiting a Specialsized Tricross. Why did i choose it, It was not for the name as other than boardman and Raleigh, I did not have a clue what was what in the market, what was good or bad. Infact I had not heard of specialized until i walked in to a bike shop. I bought it because it suited the kind of riding i want to do.

My main hobby is golf, and there appears to be some huge similarities regarding branding.

Some people will only play hugely expensive japanese forged , believing they have heart, feeling and personality. Many people buy them because of the presitge and probably very few people have the skills to make the most of these irons.

Some golfers would absoutely not touch a mass marketed brand like Taylor Made other than because it is mass marketed, even though they they may be pefectly suited to them and may even make the better golfers.

Some golfers believe they must have equipment like the pro's when they are not fully cabable of gettign the best fromt the equipment.

How many Cyclists who suffer brand or equipment snobbery, actually look beyond the brand to see if they are capable of getting the best of what they are buying?

alihisgreat

MountainMonster wrote:

Somebody has seriously got to ban captain lip,his posts are nothing but ridiculous drivel each time he posts.

Its fair enough wanting to defend, justify, and post-rationalize a purchase decision... especially when its a £3k bike!

But Captainlip takes it to another level :roll:

YIMan

Aces_up1504 wrote:

Ok being reading this forum for a little while and felt this was a good thread to join in on.

I am new to cycling and awaiting a Specialsized Tricross. Why did i choose it, It was not for the name as other than boardman and Raleigh, I did not have a clue what was what in the market, what was good or bad. Infact I had not heard of specialized until i walked in to a bike shop. I bought it because it suited the kind of riding i want to do.

My main hobby is golf, and there appears to be some huge similarities regarding branding.

Some people will only play hugely expensive japanese forged , believing they have heart, feeling and personality. Many people buy them because of the presitge and probably very few people have the skills to make the most of these irons.

Some golfers would absoutely not touch a mass marketed brand like Taylor Made other than because it is mass marketed, even though they they may be pefectly suited to them and may even make the better golfers.

Some golfers believe they must have equipment like the pro's when they are not fully cabable of gettign the best fromt the equipment.

How many Cyclists who suffer brand or equipment snobbery, actually look beyond the brand to see if they are capable of getting the best of what they are buying?

Great post. I think you are entirely right in your last point.

Probably for the vast majority of us (certainly me included), the marginal gains possible by buying a £3000 bike rather than a £1000 bike are probably minimal.....so we buy based on what we think we like and what will make us feel good, rather than what is necessarily justifiable based on our level of performance in the sport.

MountainMonster

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Somebody has seriously got to ban captain lip,his posts are nothing but ridiculous drivel each time he posts.

Its fair enough wanting to defend, justify, and post-rationalize a purchase decision... especially when its a £3k bike!

But Captainlip takes it to another level :roll:

Yup, I mean I can be abit harsh and blunt in my posts, but he just talks with no respect for anyone, and with no justification for anything.

Oh well, welcome to ze interwebs.

markos1963

I have to admit to a certain amount of brand loyalty and snobbery, I do love Orbea bikes. They always seem to produce great looking bikes and that is what attracted me to them. Having said that I did do it properly and test ride the bikes I wanted. I could have bought a top of the range Orca but I knew I'd never had got the best out of it so got the Onix instead. I wasn't bothered if it had been built in Tiawan but it was nice to know it had been built in Spain.

I have a Boardman and I can't understand people who say they are boring, mine is a great bike( I have a Comp SC, the single/fixed one) 8kg for under £500 and the stiffness to put enough power down to beat most of my club group up hills keeps me with a smile on my face.

I tend to buy bikes now with more of a view to function over form, no point looking good at the back of the pack.

Churchill123

Captainlip wrote:

YIMan wrote:

What would make a bike look like it meets your needs? Could it be any brand, or only certain brands?

I can look at lots of bikes and think "they look like nice bikes", but I know I wouldn't buy one because they're "not me".

For example, I couldn't see myself buying a Trek, Specialized or Giant.

I probably would buy a Boardman, but I'd rather have a Bianchi or Colnago (only if they're made in Italy though otherwise the DNA is diluted). I have a Genesis that I'm relatively indifferent too, whereas I love my Orange 5 - like you say when I ride it I feel totally connected to it, like it is perfect for me.

You today sum up 90% of this forums ill ridden users.

You would buy the sh!ttest bike on the road a boardman, but you dream of bianchis or colnago why not save and get one or get a 2nd hand one, but put simply you disregard the three biggest bike brands on the market, and without blowing smoke up treks ars* as I know how good they are as I own and ride them not just judge them, all three of them build a better bike for less than a boardman, wiggo himself slated how bad boardmans where and hes getting knighted, yet people on here that think they know a little something about bikes think they are the best thing since sliced bread

im sorry its not just you its most of this forum that gives out shocking advise to people who need it.

queue idiotic responces claiming "troll" or my dicks bigger than yours which is what this forums seems to be about.

YAWN! - Treks & Giant maybe "good value for money" but they don't half look fooking booring! Sometimes people want something a little more exotic looking or a little less "main stream" doesn't necessarily mean its any better than a comparative Giant but aesthetics to some is important.

jgsi

Churchill123 wrote:

YAWN! - Treks & Giant maybe "good value for money" but they don't half look fooking booring! Sometimes people want something a little more exotic looking or a little less "main stream" doesn't necessarily mean its any better than a comparative Giant but aesthetics to some is important.

I didnt really want to draw myself into this snippy little debate but
I don't associate Trek, Giant even Cannondale and certainly not Specialized with the phrase 'value for money' anymore..
DuraAce...fitted ? whats that 105 cassette on there for then..?
Why do I need to replace the cheapest nastiest wheelset that they put on the bike .. ?
etc etc
..
and tbh confused how you can make 2 triangles and 2 circles exotic?