Progressive FTP training
Comments
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thanks mate, good info.
i have added a session to my week which is purely percieved power, no HR monitor involved.
the only problem i had training with power is that, according to my HR for my zones i go to hard, perhaps to keen on seeing gains when i should be working more on my base.
that was November where i literally never went out over threshold, and was very tedious... now power is being introduced a couple times a week for, i think i wont feel a need to push too hard on the wrong days.
Ive got a pretty good plan set up, that im confident in. During this month it involves minimal above HR threshold work ,but i will gradually increase the volume and raise intensity come march.
thank you all for your input, it was a great help.0 -
joe.90 wrote:the only problem i had training with power is that, according to my HR for my zones i go to hard, perhaps to keen on seeing gains when i should be working more on my base.
Is that on a turbo? Training indoors (even with a fan and open windows and only wearing bib shorts) my heart rate is about 10 beats higher than outside...
If it's an interval session forget about heart rate, if it's more of steady effort then I would go for a compromise, having power slightly too low, and heart slightly to high.Ive got a pretty good plan set up, that im confident in. During this month it involves minimal above HR threshold work ,but i will gradually increase the volume and raise intensity come march.
Sounds solid.0 -
Setarkos wrote:joe.90 wrote:the only problem i had training with power is that, according to my HR for my zones i go to hard, perhaps to keen on seeing gains when i should be working more on my base.
Is that on a turbo? Training indoors (even with a fan and open windows and only wearing bib shorts) my heart rate is about 10 beats higher than outside...
If it's an interval session forget about heart rate, if it's more of steady effort then I would go for a compromise, having power slightly too low, and heart slightly to high.Ive got a pretty good plan set up, that im confident in. During this month it involves minimal above HR threshold work ,but i will gradually increase the volume and raise intensity come march.
Sounds solid.
It's on a turbo inside yeah, with just bib shorts but without a fan! Been Meaning to buy one for ages now..
Yeah, I cant remember of i said, but I've encorporated a session involving no HR only power. Which is good!
another problem is pete read reccomends that untill January, (maybe feb) the weekend rides are not to be ridden in anaerobic intensities, which is fine but I live in the middle of 5 valleys, meaning you have to climb at least 1 category 3/4 climb to get out to the flat.
Naturally im a pretty good hill climber and always like to get up em in a reasonable time.
I've come to the conclusion that on the saturdays ride, for 10 minutes of climbing I will go slightly above my threshold, but once I get to the flat ride in the zones as Instructed for the rest of the ride.
Do you think i should supress my urges and slow down up the up hills for now? I can manage Sunday.... but both days?
Edit * the reason I ask is because alot of enthasis is put on not going out of HR zones, (even for 10 mins on a saturday)
if its true il bite the bullet and simply won't..0 -
If at all possible, you should try to stay disciplined
I know it's hard, especially if you get passed by other riders but you have to keep in mind that you want to perform best in your events and that sometimes means holding back in training.
If you want to spice up your LSD (long stead distance) rides, you can do 6sec bursts every 15mins or so but I would try to take the climbs in the smallest gear 0 -
Attempting to stay within a particular "zone" for an entire ride is neither practical, realistic or necessary.joe.90 wrote:Edit * the reason I ask is because alot of enthasis is put on not going out of HR zones, (even for 10 mins on a saturday)
if its true il bite the bullet and simply won't..
Only time I suggest this is when doing a light recovery spin, where you avoid hills if possible.0 -
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Try typing Golden Cheetah into Google
http://goldencheetah.org/0 -
Setarkos wrote:Training indoors (even with a fan and open windows and only wearing bib shorts) my heart rate is about 10 beats higher than outside...
Mine is quite a bit lower.More problems but still living....0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
Attempting to stay within a particular "zone" for an entire ride is neither practical, realistic or necessary.joe.90 wrote:Edit * the reason I ask is because alot of enthasis is put on not going out of HR zones, (even for 10 mins on a saturday)
if its true il bite the bullet and simply won't..
Only time I suggest this is when doing a light recovery spin, where you avoid hills if possible.
Alex, Interesting...whats is the idea of not doing too high intensities initially in the winter then?
since November Ive been limiting how hard i push myself, to stay in "zone". Like i previously said im going to start doing more high intensity stuff now, and increase the amount from now until spring. what do you reckon?0 -
joe.90 wrote:thanks mate, good info.
i have added a session to my week which is purely percieved power, no HR monitor involved.
the only problem i had training with power is that, according to my HR for my zones i go to hard, perhaps to keen on seeing gains when i should be working more on my base.
that was November where i literally never went out over threshold, and was very tedious... now power is being introduced a couple times a week for, i think i wont feel a need to push too hard on the wrong days.
Ive got a pretty good plan set up, that im confident in. During this month it involves minimal above HR threshold work ,but i will gradually increase the volume and raise intensity come march.
thank you all for your input, it was a great help.
If you have power use this over and above HR, it is a far more accurate way to measure intensity. Use a HRM for all means to get extra data, but don't worry about it going over a particular number for a given session.0 -
amaferanga wrote:Setarkos wrote:Training indoors (even with a fan and open windows and only wearing bib shorts) my heart rate is about 10 beats higher than outside...
Mine is quite a bit lower.
Mine is near identical, but then again it can change depending on tiredness etc, so I don't really worry about it. I just use the powermeter figures instead LOL0 -
joe.90 wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
Attempting to stay within a particular "zone" for an entire ride is neither practical, realistic or necessary.joe.90 wrote:Edit * the reason I ask is because alot of enthasis is put on not going out of HR zones, (even for 10 mins on a saturday)
if its true il bite the bullet and simply won't..
Only time I suggest this is when doing a light recovery spin, where you avoid hills if possible.
Alex, Interesting...whats is the idea of not doing too high intensities initially in the winter then?
since November Ive been limiting how hard i push myself, to stay in "zone". Like i previously said im going to start doing more high intensity stuff now, and increase the amount from now until spring. what do you reckon?
I am sure Alex will give you a better response but for me I spend 8 months of the year racing hard and training at higher intensities, during the winter it is a chance for your body to recover (though I still train hard), and also to mentally recover from very intense sessions. I do alot of different intensities and durations of rides, I just avoid very hard intervals until they are needed by my racing goals, but then again it is quite easy to get a good 5 min high power interval done whilst riding an endurance ride.
Alot of coaches tend to up the endurance side of training in the winter, as during the racing season it is not always possible to get the longer endurance rides in. People go on about reverse periodisation, but this only works if you only do a few events during your racing season, people that race regularly (once or twice a week), are unlikely going to be able to find the time to get longer endurance rides in.
There is nothing stopping you from doing high intensity work throughout the winter, though appreciate that gains from very high intensity intervals are normally quickly gained and quickly lost if you stop doing them, if you are happy doing 5/6 min intervals or even shorter intervals all over the winter period then go ahead and do them. They might become mentally tiring though and by the time you get to racing etc, you might well be fed up of doing them, and really I would be trying to do these sessions in amongst racing to get the best out of my racing.0 -
Bezza,
Good post.
A question for you.
Many riders do race often, very often. This seems to conflict with the goal of setting the fastest possible time in a chosen event or setting a PB over a 10 or 25 etc etc, or winning or doing well in a targeted event.
Do you think many time triallists would set faster PBs and improve their fitness if they raced less often?0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:Bezza,
Good post.
A question for you.
Many riders do race often, very often. This seems to conflict with the goal of setting the fastest possible time in a chosen event or setting a PB over a 10 or 25 etc etc, or winning or doing well in a targeted event.
Do you think many time triallists would set faster PBs and improve their fitness if they raced less often?
Yes I do, I personally try and target set events, and have probably raced too often in the past (and I only do one race a week). I must admit I also train around races, I will train after a race, even after a 50 mile TT, otherwise my training load would plummet, I also ride out to TT's (up to 50 miles sometimes, and then race and then ride back home), but alot of riders will not do this as they fear having a crap race. Some of my races are training races pure and simple.
I will likely race alot less often in 2013, I will see what impact this has on my racing.0 -
In the past i have followed his plan to the letter and i can assure you that it worked 100% for me.
the principles are sound and it does get considerably harder BUT i found that you will need to go racing....alot
His logic re high intensities are that you ve battered yourself with a seasons racing, that you need to avoid getting ill and you need time to build a higher level "base" than youve currently got.
nb: his version of base training doesnt involve tooling around ,chatting to your mates and having a coffee, even his longer rides involve working hard for 3 to 4hrs continuously.
Im not saying at all that he is right or wrong or that it will work for you but you ve decided to go with his TP, so why not give it a chance? also, you need to realise the book is more aimed at folk who want to do well at longer events, so if your season is based around crit racing, it may not be exactly what you need.
Dont get too hung up on HR zones, a few beats either side of your target zones wont matter a jot, better still buy a PM 0 -
I agree, I am going to follow everything he says to do within reason. always keeping in mind that its a generic guide...although a good one!
Ive added a pure power session, which will go over his suggested HR zones
in February, the weekend rides eventually become long hilly interval sessions anyway. so until then i will keep my riding to as flat a ground and controlled as possible. Give or take an unavoidable hill or 2 where for that brief time i will again, ignore any HR zones.0 -
I can't say, but there is no single suitable one size fits all method, and what's right for some, may be counter productive for others. For some that are stuck indoors snow-bound for months on end and only have the turbo as a friend, well sometimes the tendency is to ride a bit harder and shorter in an effort to maintain fitness.joe.90 wrote:Alex, Interesting...whats is the idea of not doing too high intensities initially in the winter then?
In Australia for instance, Winter is our traditional road racing and TT championship season.
It might be for a mental break, perhaps you have a long race season over summer.
Perhaps it's a ruse to prevent you from doing too much higher intensity for a period (in the same way that "strength endurance" intervals are just a ruse for doing threshold hill repeats).
Maybe your focus is on cyclocross, or track racing.
Perhaps you might benefit from a 6 week high intensity block, then move onto more endurance based work.
Who knows? It's your specific needs and goals will dictate that.
But I think just assuming that's what everyone should do is mistaken.
I don't know nearly enough about you to provide specific advice.joe.90 wrote:since November Ive been limiting how hard i push myself, to stay in "zone". Like i previously said im going to start doing more high intensity stuff now, and increase the amount from now until spring. what do you reckon?0 -
ok i see.
but how does one go about finding out what works best for them?
have you got to push yourself to your limits and burn out to know your limits? that's not something i want to do.0 -
Of course not. Finding out what works doesn't mean blindly going to extremes until a catastrophe happens. If you were testing a new drug on people would you keep administering the drug to them in increasing doses until they died, and then give everyone else slightly less? That's very one-dimensional, and just plain daft.joe.90 wrote:ok i see.
but how does one go about finding out what works best for them?
have you got to push yourself to your limits and burn out to know your limits? that's not something i want to do.
If you want good results you need to carefully measure and control the dosage while controlling as many variables as possible, and measure the results over a long period of time. Not happy with the results? Try something else. That doesn't necessarily mean taking a higher dose until you pop your clogs.CAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!0 -
It's worth keeping a diary recording what you did and when. It's useful to look back on to review your training and will allow you to see just how hard you trained. A lot of people train less than they think they do. If you find that you training plan has worked wonders for you, it would be good to have a record of what you actually did.0
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It takes some time and experience and perhaps working with someone knowledgeable to shorten the learning curve, but if you follow some sound basic principles, you'll do OK. Things like:joe.90 wrote:ok i see.
but how does one go about finding out what works best for them?
have you got to push yourself to your limits and burn out to know your limits? that's not something i want to do.
- Specificity
- Progressive overload
- Recovery as warranted
- Enjoy the process/training
If your training includes just those elements, you can go quite a ways. The trick is in understanding how each element applies to you.0 -
GiantMike wrote:It's worth keeping a diary recording what you did and when. It's useful to look back on to review your training and will allow you to see just how hard you trained. A lot of people train less than they think they do. If you find that you training plan has worked wonders for you, it would be good to have a record of what you actually did.
Agree. A good old fashioned training diary. Don't just keep a record of the training you did, keep records of working hours, sleep, diet, weight, life stresses, health, waking heart rate etc etc.
Over time all sorts of things are revealed.0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:GiantMike wrote:It's worth keeping a diary recording what you did and when. It's useful to look back on to review your training and will allow you to see just how hard you trained. A lot of people train less than they think they do. If you find that you training plan has worked wonders for you, it would be good to have a record of what you actually did.
Agree. A good old fashioned training diary. Don't just keep a record of the training you did, keep records of working hours, sleep, diet, weight, life stresses, health, waking heart rate etc etc.
Over time all sorts of things are revealed.
i think i may give this a try.
mainly with the sleep, diet and how hard the training felt, and how i felt.
I used to think stress played a big part in my HR/performance, but not long ago i had a day or two of pure stress and anxiety, i was concerned it was going to effect my performance yet when i trained my HR was low and i felt really strong... so that kinda blew that theory out the water!
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