Chris Froome to lead Team Sky in TdF

tailwindhome

If Wiggins goes for the Giro and Froome the Tour, how will they split the domestiques. The A-Team will hardly be riding both......will they?

greasedscotsman

Haven't they got the riders for two A teams?

Richmond Racer

To my mind, yes. And with the exception of Gabriel Rasch every new rider they've brought in for next season is a climber.

jerry3571

Possibly they let each rider ride for themselves. Wiggins can follow at his own pace and Froome can follow the attacks which will come from Bertie. It'll be a different race if Bertie gets there in July in good shape. This year, it was up to Sky to grind riders down. With Bertie and Shreck (if he can get his @rse in gear) they'll be a lot more attacks. Shreck is a big question though; have a hunch he may not perform again in the same way as the past. I think Cav's Team might make things easier by chasing down breaks on the Flat so that might make things better for Sky and maybe less crashes.

If Wiggins can't make an impact at the Giro then he could bunk off (Frank Schleck style) and then use the Giro as a warm up for the Tour.

Must say that Sky have got a good history of dropping the ball so maybe this is another disaster in the making.

Jerry

PS- Giro Route 2013

Richmond Racer

jerry3571 wrote:

Possibly they let each rider ride for themselves. Wiggins can follow at his own pace and Froome can follow the attacks which will come from Bertie. It'll be a different race if Bertie gets there in July in good shape. This year, it was up to Sky to grind riders down. With Bertie and Shreck (if he can get his @rse in gear) they'll be a lot more attacks. Shreck is a big question though; have a hunch he may not perform again in the same way as the past. I think Cav's Team might make things easier by chasing down breaks on the Flat so that might make things better for Sky and maybe less crashes.

If Wiggins can't make an impact at the Giro then he could bunk off (Frank Schleck style) and then use the Giro as a warm up for the Tour.

Must say that Sky have got a good history of dropping the ball so maybe this is another disaster in the making.

Jerry

PS- Giro Route 2013

If dropping the ball means dominating stage racing in 2012 and finishing miles ahead of the second placed team in the UCI team points rankings, I'm sure they'll want to do more of that in 2013

jerry3571

I mean Wiggins et al forgetting that altitude training may benefit winning a TDF, signing Cav, Cav winning the Olympic road race, Froome bothering with the Vuelta, also Cav losing weight to win the Worlds and then losing many races especially at the Giro and TDF.
Cav must assert his dominance again (tricky job) to regain the psychological edge over Sagan, Greipel, Guardini, Goss, Ferrari and many others. This years' gamble has not paid off at all for Cav and has questioned his dominance. He'll be lucky as most sprinters now think he is quite fallible.

See, Sky screw ups.

Jerry

RichN95.

jerry3571 wrote:

I mean Wiggins et al forgetting that altitude training may benefit winning a TDF, signing Cav, Cav winning the Olympic road race, Froome bothering with the Vuelta, also Cav losing weight to win the Worlds and then losing many races especially at the Giro and TDF.
Cav must assert his dominance again (tricky job) to regain the psychological edge over Sagan, Greipel, Guardini, Goss, Ferrari and many others. This years' gamble has not paid off at all for Cav and has questioned his dominance. He'll be lucky as most sprinters now think he is quite fallible.

See, Sky screw ups.

Jerry

Hang on. Wiggins won the Tour, Froome was 4th in the Vuelta and Cavendish won six Giro or Tour stages. Teams dream of screwing up like that.

Richmond Racer

jerry3571 wrote:

I mean Wiggins et al forgetting that altitude training may benefit winning a TDF, signing Cav, Cav winning the Olympic road race, Froome bothering with the Vuelta, also Cav losing weight to win the Worlds and then losing many races especially at the Giro and TDF.
Cav must assert his dominance again (tricky job) to regain the psychological edge over Sagan, Greipel, Guardini, Goss, Ferrari and many others. This years' gamble has not paid off at all for Cav and has questioned his dominance. He'll be lucky as most sprinters now think he is quite fallible.

See, Sky screw ups.

Jerry

Jerry, just a couple of points on your examples:

Cav...erm, exactly how fallible did he look at the Tour on the only 3 stages Sky went for, for him? Stages 2 and 18 have gone down already as Cav at his most brilliant.

The Oly RR is an utter lottery - that's well known. Sky went for a tactic - it didnt pay off. Neither for that matter did the Aussies refusal to do anything to help bring it back for a sprint, pay off in a medal for them. Nor did the game plans of the Dutch, Belgians, French, Spanish or Italians, pay off for them.

Not sure how Sky screwed up by letting Froome ride the Vuelta? Taught him - and them - how long he long he can hold his form, gave him his first hit-out as at GT team leader - and he still finished 4th which after a 2nd at the Tour a lot of riders and teams would take if given the chance.

Sky farked up in 2010 - no question. BUT they seem to have learned a lot since. Hence finishing up as No 2 team in 2011 and no 1 in 2012.

If you'e going to cite a Sky screw-up, I'd go for P-R this year. But really, does your definition of not screwing up involve winning every single race a team rides?

jerry3571

I would say the whole plan around Cav has been a problem. He has been beaten by many riders who now will look to build upon these victories over him and the course of the Olympics was never a sprint with a Team of 5 riders to back him up. The GB Team only just managed a Worlds win with 9 men and a flat course. Crazy to expect a result.
I think that Froomey was giving a good kicking at the Vuelta for no good reason. He'd been better off tuning himself for the Worlds at the TT than getting 3 Spaniards find different ways of sticking it to him. 4th was good enough for LA before his TDF wins but Froomey needs some wins. He was never going to trouble the other 3 at the Vuelta.

Don't get me on to Sky's pressure on getting a result due to New Corperations bad year at the hands of Levison. Hmmm... what the sponsor wants, the sponsor gets.

-Jerry

ddraver

You re talking absolute rubbish Jerry. Sky have been one of the best teams this year (classics aside). To say that Cav had a "screwed up" tour is just rubbish. To do all that work in the mountains and then still chuffing dominate the last 2 sprint stages is, dare I say, True Champion riding!

Froome was beaten by three riders who did naff all all summer long as they were so focussed on their own back yards. He did bloody well! Yes he now needs to be given the chance to ride a GT as leader, with that as his year long focus. However, that might mean not doing the tour - we shall see in July (If I were sky I would nt be telling until August)

This is just more pointless, made up, Sky bashing to sound cool to the Twitter Taliban...

inkyfingers

Stop feeding the troll.

greasedscotsman

inkyfingers wrote:

Stop feeding the troll.

But he might be hungry...

inkyfingers

greasedscotsman wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

Stop feeding the troll.

But he might be hungry...

Let him eat cake.

greasedscotsman

inkyfingers wrote:

Let him eat cake.

I like cake, does that make me a troll?

Richmond Racer

inkyfingers wrote:

Stop feeding the troll.

Right-o

nick hanson

jerry3571 wrote:

Possibly they let each rider ride for themselves. Wiggins can follow at his own pace and Froome can follow the attacks which will come from Bertie. It'll be a different race if Bertie gets there in July in good shape. This year, it was up to Sky to grind riders down. With Bertie and Shreck (if he can get his @rse in gear) they'll be a lot more attacks. Shreck is a big question though; have a hunch he may not perform again in the same way as the past.

If Clentador races clean,then he can attack as much as he likes,but,he won't ride away from a high tempo lead group,as Sky rode it this year.
Doesn't matter how good anyone is,if you attack,you will go into the red,& whilst you are recovering,you will get pulled back

inkyfingers

nick hanson wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

Possibly they let each rider ride for themselves. Wiggins can follow at his own pace and Froome can follow the attacks which will come from Bertie. It'll be a different race if Bertie gets there in July in good shape. This year, it was up to Sky to grind riders down. With Bertie and Shreck (if he can get his @rse in gear) they'll be a lot more attacks. Shreck is a big question though; have a hunch he may not perform again in the same way as the past.

If Clentador races clean,then he can attack as much as he likes,but,he won't ride away from a high tempo lead group,as Sky rode it this year.
Doesn't matter how good anyone is,if you attack,you will go into the red,& whilst you are recovering,you will get pulled back

He could still try the J Rod tactic of attacking in the last km of any uphill finishes, gaining 10-15 seconds each time, it's never won J Rod a GT but the difference being that an in form Contador probably wouldn't lose any more than a minute to Wiggins in a long TT.

The other thing to consider is that if the race is made harder with more attacks next year then Wiggins might not have so many team mates left to help him on the final climb.

Personally, I still think Wiggins could probably still get on the podium of the Tour next year, if Contador isn't at his 2009/2010 level then he could still win it.

Crozza

Richmond Racer wrote:

The Oly RR is an utter lottery - that's well known. Sky went for a tactic - it didnt pay off.

Sky were never going to win the Olympic RR, no matter what they tried

Tom Butcher

Richmond Racer wrote:

The Oly RR is an utter lottery - that's well known. Sky went for a tactic - it didnt pay off.

Sky weren't in the Olympic RR

Richmond Racer

Tom Butcher wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

The Oly RR is an utter lottery - that's well known. Sky went for a tactic - it didnt pay off.

Sky weren't in the Olympic RR

Yes, yes

They co-opted David Millar

RichN95.

Richmond Racer wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

The Oly RR is an utter lottery - that's well known. Sky went for a tactic - it didnt pay off.

Sky weren't in the Olympic RR

Yes, yes

They co-opted David Millar

They would have won too, if Uran had the first idea how to do a two up sprint.

Richmond Racer

RichN95 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

The Oly RR is an utter lottery - that's well known. Sky went for a tactic - it didnt pay off.

Sky weren't in the Olympic RR

Yes, yes

They co-opted David Millar

They would have won too, if Uran had the first idea how to do a two up sprint.

Excellent point

Pross

It was actually a tactical masterpiece, sell the story that everything is going towards your one man and then get one of the team to dress in different kit and get in a late break. They would have got away with it if it wasn't for that pesky Kazahk and his drugs too

jerry3571

Have you ever watched the Olympic Road Race where Berie was sat in front of Cav for a big section of the race.
When Sky have had big involvment in British Cycling then there's next to no gap between Team GB and Sky.
I guess it's better not talk to Wegelius about this as he got booted out of the GB Team for riding against Team GB; think that was at the Worlds at some point.

I think Cav did well pretending that he was going to be a Gilbert or J-Rod but it was a tad optimistic. He should stick to what he does. The case is that he liked to be racing rather than being a dull sprinter. I think he's had delusions of being the next Boonen or Museeuw; sprinter come Lion of Flanders. Riders like the 2, I just mentioned, become Classics riders because they lost their sprint, not because they fancy a change. Cav is about a good classics rider as Cipollini.
Changing the winning formula is a risky business and a lot of riders have not come back after trying to change.

TOLL ALERT!!!- I must say that Sky did really well at the Tour; kind of reminded me of the Discovery Team. Hmmm...?? (Sorry but I'm a bit old for text speak but I think I am PMSL )

PS- Another screw up was changing Wiggins Prologue start time at the Tour (think it was 2010) when they got all Bill Gyles and screwed up the forecast. I use radar images a lot in my work and it's not Rocket Science. God, I could go on you know. :twisted:

Pross

jerry3571 wrote:

TOLL ALERT!!!- I must say that Sky did really well at the Tour; kind of reminded me of the Discovery Team. Hmmm...?? (Sorry but I'm a bit old for text speak but I think I am PMSL )

Wow, no-one's ever said that before :shock:

By the way, does the toll alert mean your going to charge us for any replies?

jerry3571

I might EAT YOU ALL!!! (funny stuff- I'm enjoying myeslf here) Happy days!

Jerry

bigmat

jerry3571 wrote:

Have you ever watched the Olympic Road Race where Berie was sat in front of Cav for a big section of the race.
When Sky have had big involvment in British Cycling then there's next to no gap between Team GB and Sky.
I guess it's better not talk to Wegelius about this as he got booted out of the GB Team for riding against Team GB; think that was at the Worlds at some point.

I think Cav did well pretending that he was going to be a Gilbert or J-Rod but it was a tad optimistic. He should stick to what he does. The case is that he liked to be racing rather than being a dull sprinter. I think he's had delusions of being the next Boonen or Museeuw; sprinter come Lion of Flanders. Riders like the 2, I just mentioned, become Classics riders because they lost their sprint, not because they fancy a change. Cav is about a good classics rider as Cipollini.
Changing the winning formula is a risky business and a lot of riders have not come back after trying to change.

TOLL ALERT!!!- I must say that Sky did really well at the Tour; kind of reminded me of the Discovery Team. Hmmm...?? (Sorry but I'm a bit old for text speak but I think I am PMSL )

PS- Another screw up was changing Wiggins Prologue start time at the Tour (think it was 2010) when they got all Bill Gyles and screwed up the forecast. I use radar images a lot in my work and it's not Rocket Science. God, I could go on you know. :twisted:

To be honest, Cav could have won the Olympics. GB's big mistake was letting every strong team other than the Germans get a man in the break. Had they had just one decent team working with them (US, Australia, Spain, Belgium) then they probably would have pulled the break back and we'd all be talking a different story now. But that is the beauty of one day cycling - impossible to fully control. Doesn't mean GB's tactics were wrong or that Cav never had a chance of winning.

gsk82

It says in wiggins' book that Cavendish had a slow puncture so wouldn't have won anyway.

milton50

TailWindHome wrote:

If Wiggins goes for the Giro and Froome the Tour, how will they split the domestiques. The A-Team will hardly be riding both......will they?

I've been thinking about this for a while. The problem is that in order to win a GT, Wiggins needs a team so strong that it can control the pace of the entire race. That way he can climb at threshold up the climbs and then gain minutes in the TT.

Froome on the other hand just needs the normal team role of keeping him out of trouble and a few wise heads to stop him riding like a clown.

So if you were sitting down to decide which team goes to which race you would logically send a stronger team to the Giro than the Tour. But given how much bigger the Tour is than the Giro (particularly to the sponsor) then they may fall into a trap of trying to have the best of both worlds; asking the big names to ride the Giro and expend a lot of energy supporting Wiggins, then have to ride the Tour as well. We know how riding two hard GTs worked out for people like Froome and Porte last year.

jerry3571

If Sky win 2-3 Tours in a year then we're in the league of the Disco Boys. Here we go again!!

Just a note on Cav, as I said before, he won the Worlds on a far easier course, with 4 more team mates and even then Team GB lost control of the race with 4k to go and was lucky the Aussies took up the slack to drag the Cav to the finish.
The Aussies preferred to not get caught again at the Olympics and strung Team GB up by sitting on. It was never going to happen.

As for Froome, he mustn't get stuck in the Raymond Poulidor scenario where he'll become the perennial Bridesmaid.
Losing becomes a habit like Shreck jnr and Ullrich. Froomey needs to get used to winning and the Vuelta didn't help.

Jerry