Saxo or Argos?

ilm_zero7

frenchfighter wrote:

I would 100% prefer to see Europcar in there than Argos. I'm not so sure why they have not been considered.

Frenchie - I understood Europcar decided themselves not to apply because of the financial commitments, and just rely upon wild card entries

frenchfighter

Ok got it, thanks.

LeicesterLad

frenchfighter wrote:

Can anyone remember a race this season this year where Argos (I cant even remember what they were called before that) made an impact to your viewing pleasure? Popping out with 200m to go most certainly doesn't count.

I can't. But maybe that was because they weren't in the best races all the time.

Saxo isn't just about Contador. Look through the list of riders on their 2013 roster - I am sure there are many riders on there you will miss not seeing in PT races. (New signings etc: Bennati, Breschel, Roche, Kreuziger, Zaugg, Duggan, Sutherland)

Now look through 2013 Argos roster and ask yourself the same question.

Saxo's 2012 roster wasn't particularly interesting mainly because it was geared around Contador. 2013 is completely different as it has many other stand alone riders.

I am all for clean cycling and encouraging development, but at the same time I want to be entertained. I don't want to watch a 2nd rate team with a bunch of riders I don't know - I want excitement and recognition.

Even then, having a team based around a superstar like Contador would be good enough for me, simply because he will entertain me every single race he enters. Him not having that opportunity would negatively impact the racing.

Frenchie is bound to get some stick on here for the above post because he's a Bertie fanboi, but to his credit, this post pretty much sums up the situation in the 'real world'. Of course advocating clean cycling and supporting young riders is where the sport should be heading, but as 'fans' who like to be 'entertained' on the tellybox, logically the only team who can do that is Saxo - and 2013 see's the inclusion of Kreuziger and Roche and more than likely an ambition to win more than one Grand Tour. Argos will turn up to every race with a sprinter to hunt down the odd stage or two. No brainer really.

ocdupalais

Bertie aside, I thought Degenkolb's attempt to reach the lead trio in Paris-Tours eclipsed anything Saxo did in the latter half of this season.

Paul 8v

OCDuPalais wrote:

Bertie aside, I thought Degenkolb's attempt to reach the lead trio in Paris-Tours eclipsed anything Saxo did in the latter half of this season.

^^^This. That was pretty epic! As much as I like to see Contador race I still can't trust him. Saxo are a one trick pony, send them a message that doping is not acceptable until Contador fesses up then I can enjoy watching him race again rather than having to wonder if he's on the juice every time he does something good.

LeicesterLad

Paul 8v wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

Bertie aside, I thought Degenkolb's attempt to reach the lead trio in Paris-Tours eclipsed anything Saxo did in the latter half of this season.

^^^This. That was pretty epic! As much as I like to see Contador race I still can't trust him. Saxo are a one trick pony, send them a message that doping is not acceptable until Contador fesses up then I can enjoy watching him race again rather than having to wonder if he's on the juice every time he does something good.

That's a pretty limited view. Contador has already been sanctioned for his positive test - some will argue it wasn't a tough enough sanction but that isn't Contadors fault - So people may think Contador hasn't told the truth, fair enough but thats the case for a great many rider in the bunch, just because Millar got pushed into a corner so was forced into confessing doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. Millars a good guy but anyone who realistically thinks millar would have told the whole truth had the circumstances been different is extremely blinkered. Whether Contador tells the truth or not the fact remains that he has been dealt with so why punish the rest of the team for something one man has done and already been punished for?

As for 'sending a message' - yeah great message that is: Sack Saxo off because they were an easy target but don't worry about Katusha, Radioshack, Astana, Lampre getting through and the dodgy points system. :roll:

Paul 8v

I suppose you're right about the whole team being punished but I still don't think it was a great message to send out to others that he can get off in 6 months or whatever it was, not really much of a deterrent!

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Can anyone remember a race this season this year where Argos (I cant even remember what they were called before that) made an impact to your viewing pleasure? Popping out with 200m to go most certainly doesn't count.

Just because you think it shouldn't count, it doesn't mean it doesn't. Five stages of the Vuelta is a big deal even if you turn your nose up at it.

The bottom line is that neither team has done a great deal, which is why they are in this situation. (A Vuelta win didn't get Geox a place last year either).

ddraver

Trouble is LL, you re as much of a Bertie Fanboi as Frenchie

I don't think Saxo have added anything more than Argos this year, the only dilemma is how you define "added"

thomthom

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Can anyone remember a race this season this year where Argos (I cant even remember what they were called before that) made an impact to your viewing pleasure? Popping out with 200m to go most certainly doesn't count.

Just because you think it shouldn't count, it doesn't mean it doesn't. Five stages of the Vuelta is a big deal even if you turn your nose up at it.

The bottom line is that neither team has done a great deal, which is why they are in this situation. (A Vuelta win didn't get Geox a place last year either).

Let's be honest here. If there had been just one sprinter - bar Degen - in that peloton, they would have won 0 in that Vuelta. But a win is a win, I guess.

Richmond Racer

Are we ready for the news, chaps and chappesses?

Inner Ring's hinting that the UCI might have 'told Riis to Tinkoff'

One can hope

EDIT: FDJ just been confirmed as getting one of the 3 licences according to Reuters journo

frenchfighter

FDJ get it. Wow.

frenchfighter

What a joke this UCI is. No name, no talent Argos take a WT licence.

Richmond Racer

Argos-Shimano got it!

Caveat: still dont know whether Lotto or Saxo have got the last one - but there's no way on earth Lotto wont get it given their season

*fires up Oleg Tinkoff's twitter feed*

**bugger, need to learn Cyrillic**

Richmond Racer

frenchfighter wrote:

What a joke this UCI is. No name, no talent Argos take a WT licence.

Frenchie, even if the points werent an issue, Riis and Tinkoff's histories are really damaging Saxo. We seem to be at a crossroads, maybe a turning point, who knows. You dont like it but the impression is that Argos-Shimano seem to stand for new cycling and Saxo very much for old, meaning bad old, cycling.

frenchfighter

Lotto gets it.

ddraver

Whoop! Great Decision UCI - Perhaps they re learning.

(best compromise too, but meh)

bipedal

Ha ha... Riis, Oleg and Bertie get exactly what they deserve...

Turfle

Good choice. Contenders in most of the classics, and in almost every sprint stage of every big race, with some good young talent outside of Degenkolb and Kittel (Barguil, Dumoulin). A little bit climber light, but there are plenty of climber heavy squads to make up for that.

Saxo will still be at the Tour.

Richmond Racer

WTF!!! It now seems that dodgy as hell Saxo got a licence and Katusha got STRIPPED of theirs!

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENewsDe ... LangId%3D1

Turfle

Saxo AND Argos!

Katusha down.

thomthom

Richmond Racer wrote:

WTF!!! It now seems that dodgy as hell Saxo got a licence and Katusha got STRIPPED of theirs!

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENewsDe ... LangId%3D1

Considering your post above with 'turning points' and 'crossroads' you should be thrilled. The Katusha team/staff is 10 times as dodgy than the current Saxo team/staff.

RichN95.

Blimey. Makarov's not going to like that. This could get very ugly.

bipedal

I should imagine this will go legal... presumably they're rejected on ethical grounds?

Richmond Racer

ThomThom wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

WTF!!! It now seems that dodgy as hell Saxo got a licence and Katusha got STRIPPED of theirs!

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENewsDe ... LangId%3D1

Considering your post above with 'turning points' and 'crossroads' you should be thrilled. The Katusha team/staff is 10 times more dodgy than the current Saxo team/staff.

Well, I guess they be good opponents in a 'who's dodgier' contest...but I take your point

Richmond Racer

bipedal wrote:

I should imagine this will go legal... presumably they're rejected on ethical grounds?

Certainly cant be on the financial ground backed as they are, or on the sporting given that they finished second to Sky. Doubt it could be admin - what is that apart from paperwork not being in order?

Which leaves ethical.

Galimzyanov's postive and pathetic hand-written 'it was me alone' confession posted on FB. Ekimov as manager. etc etc.

So...get out of jail card for Purito?

nweststeyn

I'm sure that the decision was made easier by Contadors being at Saxo, ethical reasons against Katusha or not...

ddraver

I swiftly retract my former statement! WTF?

Richmond Racer

Tinkoff's avatar pic bears a passing resemblence to Bernie Ecclestone. This is worrying and surely grounds alone to be kicked off World Tour?

inkyfingers

Didn't see that coming.