Tactic for Hillingdon 4th Cat

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Comments

  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Setarkos wrote:
    Stay in the first Top15 at all times
    Such terrible advice for first-timers!

    BeauMaximus, Get a feel for riding in the bunch, don't worry about anything else. Enjoy it!

    another edit: yes, consider the riders around you at all times, including when you get out of the saddle.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    It is not terrible advice at all, safer at the front for a start.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Should every rider do this?
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    Why not? What is the benefit of sitting at the back, its harder at the back for a start, more chances of getting held up/involved in a crash, and of course you're not likely to get a result if you are hanging about at the back either.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • displacedaussie
    displacedaussie Posts: 356
    I quite like sitting safely right at the back. You only need to be near the front at the very end of the race. :D
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    It isn't safe, and its harder. I must admit I rarely sat right near the front, but certainly not at the back if I could help it.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    If it isn't safe that might have something to with the fifty riders in front of you, all trying to be in 10th to 15th.

    Remember we are talking about beginners. I'm not saying it's better to be at the back, but encouraging inexperienced riders to fight for position is a recipe for crashes IMO.

    It's not really any harder on an easy course like Hillingdon.
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    Not encouraging people to fight for position, but I think a lot of new riders misjudge how hard it is to stay in a decent position all race long. First crit I ever did (a Dutch 4-corner special) a friend said to me "every person who overtakes you, you need to overtake 2 people back" and he was right. Good to start as you mean to go on, and get used to moving up the bunch regularly and not just in the final 2 laps when every other muppet who sat at the back the whole race is trying to squeeze in there.
    http://www.twitter.com/smaryka
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Getting used to moving up (or around the bunch in general) is a good idea, suggesting it's imperative to be top 15 to riders who are not used to riding in the wheels is not. The point is to get comfortable first, then worry about positioning and trying to actually race. Some find it easy, others don't.
  • BeauMaximus
    BeauMaximus Posts: 73
    Thanks for the replys, I guess I'll just stay relaxed to start and see how it goes.
    If I'm in a good position at the end, I'll go for it.

    One other thing, where it says 40 mins plus 5 laps, are those 40 mins effectively neutralised, just serving as a warm up for the 5 laps of actual racing? And do the 5 laps start the next time the group cross the line after 40 mins has passed rather than exactly on 40 mins?

    Thanks,

    BM
  • Setarkos
    Setarkos Posts: 239
    BeauMaximus wrote:
    One other thing, where it says 40 mins plus 5 laps, are those 40 mins effectively neutralised, just serving as a warm up for the 5 laps of actual racing?

    No.
    And do the 5 laps start the next time the group cross the line after 40 mins has passed?

    Yes.
    Blog ---- Excel Training Planner
  • Dess1e
    Dess1e Posts: 239
    Setarkos wrote:
    BeauMaximus wrote:
    One other thing, where it says 40 mins plus 5 laps, are those 40 mins effectively neutralised, just serving as a warm up for the 5 laps of actual racing?

    No.
    And do the 5 laps start the next time the group cross the line after 40 mins has passed?

    Yes.

    Bear in mind the 40 mins is aprox, as the comm will be trying to maintain a gap at the finish if there at two races on the circuit at the same time.
    www.kentonrc.co.uk
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    Every racer who goes to Hillingdon is given the same advice and this leads to some of the problems there. Race your own race, if you feel good test your legs off the front, do a turn - enjoy yourself. Much more to racing than sitting at position 9 to get a couple of points.
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Yeah you may as well go and be aggressive and try things and like mroli says enjoy yourself. Even if it doesn't pay off it's more fun and you'll get some good experience of attacking, being in a break etc which will help you when you move up to a higher cat.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • ozzzyosborn206
    ozzzyosborn206 Posts: 1,340
    displacedaussie wrote:
    I quite like sitting safely right at the back. You only need to be near the front at the very end of the race. :D

    so when your sat at the back and a break of 5+ riders go up the road your left to sprint for 6th, very poor tactics, fair enough not everyone can always be near/at the front but i think you need to know what is going on around you otherwise you miss the break and spend all day on the front chasing(done that a few too many times) or think you have won when you haven't okgo can relate to this ;-)
  • displacedaussie
    displacedaussie Posts: 356
    Wow, good point, I hadn't thought of that. :roll:

    What if I have two teammates in the break? What if I'm racing on a circuit and I know that 9 times out of 10 the break will get caught anyway? Generalising and saying that a tactic is good or bad because on some occasions it will or won't work seems pretty foolish.

    If I was in a 3/4 race on a circuit that usually ends in a sprint, and if my goal for the race was to win it (having other goals for a race is completely valid!), then my personal tactic would be to sit at the back, conserve my energy as much as possible, and wait for the sprint. I'd spend the whole race watching the other teams and riders too, and if it looked like a break was going to go or might go, then I'd change my plan and do whatever I could to get a teammate off the front and into it. Otherwise, like I said previously, I like sitting at the back chilling. I'm comfortable there. I don't like being in the top 15, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels the same way.

    I'm pretty new to racing and I don't claim to know much at all, but I do know that one of the things that makes cycling so much fun is that there are such a huge number of ways that each race can potentially play out. It's our purpose as a sprinter/climber/whatever to do our best to bend the race to our will and get what we want out of it.

    And failing that, to stay upright and have as much fun as possible.

    I loved every race I did this year, even the ones where a break went and I was left sprinting for 13th. Hell, I even liked the race I did where I get dropped. :)
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,272
    DavidJB wrote:
    ozzzyosborn206 wrote:
    Setarkos wrote:
    DIdn't realise the field got that destroyed on the last hundred meters...
    ch-638x426.jpg
    Adding to the topic of handle-bar positions; why didn't they sprint in their drops???

    more wannabee cancellaras?

    Worst...sprinting...positions....ever. They look like they are crossing the line with 5 laps to go.

    From the photo one should conclude that in order to succeed in cat. 4 it's better to invest in Assos winter clothing than in carbon wheels... :lol:
    left the forum March 2023
  • Setarkos
    Setarkos Posts: 239
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    From the photo one should conclude that in order to succeed in cat. 4 it's better to invest in Assos winter clothing than in carbon wheels... :lol:

    I would generally be more inclined to invest in decent winter clothing than in carbon wheels...
    Blog ---- Excel Training Planner
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,272
    Setarkos wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    From the photo one should conclude that in order to succeed in cat. 4 it's better to invest in Assos winter clothing than in carbon wheels... :lol:

    I would generally be more inclined to invest in decent winter clothing than in carbon wheels...

    Absolutely...
    left the forum March 2023
  • antooony
    antooony Posts: 177
    I raced twice at Hillingdon as a forth Cat. First time I came seventh as the sprint for the line was just stupid so sat up, 2nd outing I kicked hard from the second to last corner and out dragged everyone to the line with room to spare. Throughout the whole race I don't think I was out of the top 10, found it the best place to be as there were a couple of crashes behind me.

    I'm quite lucky though as I have a very good kick and sprint which is my strength, I guess you ride to suit your own strengths.
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    In general terms, sitting up in the sprint at Hillingdon when you're in 7th, is not a safe move.
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    +1 = a LOT of crashes at Hillingdon are caused by people sitting up/braking at the finish line. I have no kick and no sprint....!
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/
  • antooony
    antooony Posts: 177
    Tom Dean wrote:
    In general terms, sitting up in the sprint at Hillingdon when you're in 7th, is not a safe move.

    Yes in probably 75% of cases this is true but when you being crashed into and shoulder barged off the circuit the only other option is to go down. No thanks. Better to sit up and stay as far over the side of the track which is exactly what I did endangering no one. The 2 chaps causing the mayhem did come to blows after the finish though. Glad I stayed out of it.
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Setarkos wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    From the photo one should conclude that in order to succeed in cat. 4 it's better to invest in Assos winter clothing than in carbon wheels... :lol:

    I would generally be more inclined to invest in decent winter clothing than in carbon wheels...

    Absolutely...

    Nothing like crashing in 200 quid bib tights
  • fish156
    fish156 Posts: 496
    DavidJB wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Setarkos wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    From the photo one should conclude that in order to succeed in cat. 4 it's better to invest in Assos winter clothing than in carbon wheels... :lol:

    I would generally be more inclined to invest in decent winter clothing than in carbon wheels...

    Absolutely...

    Nothing like crashing in 200 quid bib tights
    There's always Assos' free crash repair service.
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    fish156 wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Setarkos wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    From the photo one should conclude that in order to succeed in cat. 4 it's better to invest in Assos winter clothing than in carbon wheels... :lol:

    I would generally be more inclined to invest in decent winter clothing than in carbon wheels...

    Absolutely...

    Nothing like crashing in 200 quid bib tights
    There's always Assos' free crash repair service.

    Heh I didn't know about that. Pretty good. Theres only so much you can repair however and after being in a few crashes myself bib tights are normally toast.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,272
    DavidJB wrote:
    fish156 wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Setarkos wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    From the photo one should conclude that in order to succeed in cat. 4 it's better to invest in Assos winter clothing than in carbon wheels... :lol:

    I would generally be more inclined to invest in decent winter clothing than in carbon wheels...

    Absolutely...

    Nothing like crashing in 200 quid bib tights
    There's always Assos' free crash repair service.

    Heh I didn't know about that. Pretty good. Theres only so much you can repair however and after being in a few crashes myself bib tights are normally toast.
    Maybe one should look at Mad Max for inspiration on racing clothing then...
    left the forum March 2023
  • BeauMaximus
    BeauMaximus Posts: 73
    Did my race today, but missed the 4ths due to traffic on M25 so they put me in the thirds with my number upside down. Big learning curve, got dropped on first lap, chased back on, bit later got complacent and dropped again and spent best part of 2 laps flogging 50m off the back til I got back on. Went off he front once but didn't get far, the headwind approaching the line was horrible so pace was up and down all race. Was probably too cautious going through the s bends in the wet as I kept losing places round there. moved up to front quarter on final lap, only to lose it through the s bends again and the last curvevround to the finish was so fast I couldn't make up much ground and finished probably in the back third of the field. Lot learned though And sure I'll do better next time, thanks for all the advice previously.

    BM
  • antooony
    antooony Posts: 177
    Well done mate esp considering you were in with the 3rds. All good experience.
  • Setarkos
    Setarkos Posts: 239
    Sounds like an exciting day to say the least.

    It would be a good idea to work on your cornering though, because the bends at Hillingdon can all be taken at full speed even when it's wet...
    You could practice with teammates who are good at cornering for example.
    Blog ---- Excel Training Planner

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