Give it a rest!!

Garryboy

So, this is my first 'serious' attempt at structured training over the winter period.

I'm using trainer road and following the included base plan I, which I'm just about done and will move on to base II.

I'm able to do about 5 sessions a week, so I've also been doing some sufferfest vids alongside the plan.

My question is about rest/recovery - I find it difficult to take a day off, even when I'm feeling tired - not sure why really, i'm just keen to improve and stupidly I feel a bit guilty when I take a day off!

Anyone else get this - how do you ensure you get adequate recovery in your training.

Herbsman

Get a life

ShutUpLegs

Pedal softly

mattshrops

What he said ^
If you really cant have a day off, have an easy day.

dzp1

Garryboy wrote:

So, this is my first 'serious' attempt at structured training over the winter period.

I'm using trainer road and following the included base plan I, which I'm just about done and will move on to base II.

I'm able to do about 5 sessions a week, so I've also been doing some sufferfest vids alongside the plan.

My question is about rest/recovery - I find it difficult to take a day off, even when I'm feeling tired - not sure why really, i'm just keen to improve and stupidly I feel a bit guilty when I take a day off!

Anyone else get this - how do you ensure you get adequate recovery in your training.

Most good riders train for 3 weeks and then take one week easy. So I might do 90 mins to 2 hours tempo on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday and then 3 or 4 hours easy on Sunday. If you're new to cycling then about half that volume would be a good start. At the end of the 3 weeks you should be completely hanging but not from thrashing yourself, but from doing those sessions consistently at the prescribed intensity. Then you take a week off (meaning you roughly half the hours and do them all at easy (75%) pace). THen you do it all again. Does that make sense ?

Brewsterwmb

how do i ensure you get adequate recovery from my training? I rest. completely, be it for a day or for a couple. Treat that day to eat more cake, less cake, core exercises find some head space, clean the bike, get kit ready for next event... muscle need rest, so do you. try it, you might like it...

Ron Stuart

You can only get fitter by adequate rest after intervals of training... Fact
It is our bodies ability to mend damaged and build tissue after stress that enables extra work to be achieved over time.

As with all of these posts the type of training for the type of cycling aimed for depends on what training/rest periods dictate. There is also one very important other fact that should be factored into a work pattern and that is a persons natural ability to rebuild after sessions of training, this is also influenced by age, diet, genetics, environment and suitability of training techniques.

There is one sure way to help this process and that is build up gradually with small increases in work load over time.

But rest is a must

danowat

Ron Stuart wrote:

You can only get fitter by adequate RECOVERY after intervals of training... Fact

But RECOVERY is a must

Corrected, recovery doesn't mean REST

Ron Stuart

danowat wrote:

Ron Stuart wrote:

You can only get fitter by adequate RECOVERY after intervals of training... Fact

But RECOVERY is a must

Corrected, recovery doesn't mean REST

The OP's thread refers to Rest and I refer to the verb Rest which means to cease work or movement in order to relax, refresh oneself, or recover strength.

Corrected, to enable recovery there is a need to Rest by definition. Fact

danowat

You stated you need to rest to improve, you don't, you need to recover, recovery doesn't have to include total rest, if the OP is loathed to rest, he can continue to cycle (albeit at a reduced effort level) and still recover.

Rest isn't a must, recovery is.

Garryboy

Thanks to all - yes, for me it's sometimes that I don't want to rest - I guess I'm probably a bit obsessive with stuff, I'm not training for racing - just for me. However, sometimes if I don't get a session in I feel a it guilty.

Good example was Sunday - I rested completely on Saturday (other than being taxi for kids etc) and despite a bit of a late night, should have been ok for my Sunday session - but I failed miserably..I kinda knew I was going to fail (or at least not do well), but went ahead and did it anyway...

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/106878

amaferanga

dzp1 wrote:

Most good riders train for 3 weeks and then take one week easy.

Really?

Ron Stuart

amaferanga wrote:

dzp1 wrote:

Most good riders train for 3 weeks and then take one week easy.

Really?

+1

ShutUpLegs

amaferanga wrote:

dzp1 wrote:

Most good riders train for 3 weeks and then take one week easy.

Really?

No, its utter fcuking nonsense.

dzp1

Hutch trains that way and so do plenty others. In fact you'd be hard pushed to find a coach that doesn't build in an easy week every few weeks or so. If you do find one, sack him.

dzp1

Quick example - this guy is fast

http://www.strava.com/athletes/173666

Tom Dean

OP - you are following a generic plan and adding in extra (hard) workouts on top. i.e. you are not following a plan at all. Making a plan that includes recovery will allow you to get more out of your workouts.

Having said that, maybe what you are doing is ok if you are not over fatigued. Any decent volume of training will probably mean you have to train when tired sometimes.

dw300

OP - decrease intensity (whilst retaining a good spread of low, medium and high intensity work) and you can actually ride more, and possibly benefit more. Low intensity work should provide benefits and allow recovery from high intensity work. Problem solved.

Ron Stuart

In other words have a rest from flogging yourself to death now and again :shock:

Tom Dean

:? it sounds like OP is already training every day. Decreasing intensity with the aim of increasing volume doesn't seem like it would be helpful.

This

dw300 wrote:

Low intensity work should provide benefits and allow recovery from high intensity work. Problem solved.

, is a big mistake IMO. A session is for training adaptation OR recovery, not both. This is a great way to generate a lot of fatigue for minimal benefit.

bahzob

It is next to impossible for an amateur rider to train so hard they really need recovery. It's laughable to see people here thinking they need a recovery day after a 2x20 session. For most training sessions we do a good night's sleep is ample recovery time, especially since the normal hurly burly of real life will force you to have occasional longer breaks anyway .

You only have to compare the hours spent training compared to those who do it for a living. (the comparison is perfectly valid, pros train at much higher power levels than amateur riders, so a threshold session hurts just as much for them as it does us. Still they will train 25-40 hours a week.)

So if you enjoy training and can see progress as a result of it train as often and as hard as you like. If you stop enjoying it then take a break.

Herbsman

bahzob wrote:

It is next to impossible for an amateur rider to train so hard they really need recovery. It's laughable to see people here thinking they need a recovery day after a 2x20 session. For most training sessions we do a good night's sleep is ample recovery time, especially since the normal hurly burly of real life will force you to have occasional longer breaks anyway .

You only have to compare the hours spent training compared to those who do it for a living. (the comparison is perfectly valid, pros train at much higher power levels than amateur riders, so a threshold session hurts just as much for them as it does us. Still they will train 25-40 hours a week.)

So if you enjoy training and can see progress as a result of it train as often and as hard as you like. If you stop enjoying it then take a break.

The problem is, when you have a couple with young twins in the bedroom next to yours, who cry loudly waking you up multiple times per night (BASTARDS! :x ), or you just don't get to bed early enough to get enough sleep before an early start the next morning, you don't always get a good night's sleep.

Tom Dean

bahzob wrote:

It is next to impossible for an amateur rider to train so hard they really need recovery. It's laughable to see people here thinking they need a recovery day after a 2x20 session. For most training sessions we do a good night's sleep is ample recovery time, especially since the normal hurly burly of real life will force you to have occasional longer breaks anyway .

You only have to compare the hours spent training compared to those who do it for a living. (the comparison is perfectly valid, pros train at much higher power levels than amateur riders, so a threshold session hurts just as much for them as it does us. Still they will train 25-40 hours a week.)

So if you enjoy training and can see progress as a result of it train as often and as hard as you like. If you stop enjoying it then take a break.

Absolute cr@p as usual bahzob. Train as hard as possible every day!

Herbsman

Well my legs felt bollocks after Thursday's 2 x 20, I certainly wasn't able to ride as hard as I like on Friday despite an acceptable night of sleep, in fact I could barely turn the big ring mid-cassette.

amaferanga

bahzob wrote:

It is next to impossible for an amateur rider to train so hard they really need recovery. It's laughable to see people here thinking they need a recovery day after a 2x20 session.

How many days of 2x20 @ FTP can you do in a row?

mattshrops

bahzob wrote:

It is next to impossible for an amateur rider to train so hard they really need recovery. It's laughable to see people here thinking they need a recovery day after a 2x20 session. For most training sessions we do a good night's sleep is ample recovery time, especially since the normal hurly burly of real life will force you to have occasional longer breaks anyway .

You only have to compare the hours spent training compared to those who do it for a living. (the comparison is perfectly valid, pros train at much higher power levels than amateur riders, so a threshold session hurts just as much for them as it does us. Still they will train 25-40 hours a week.)

So if you enjoy training and can see progress as a result of it train as often and as hard as you like. If you stop enjoying it then take a break.

So someone whos been cycling for 6 or less months then?
Someone whos quite a few stone overweight?
Someone whos had a serious leg injury?
Someone whos been drinking and smoking for the last 35 yrs?

Or yourself who is none of the above and has never put themselves in someone elses ccircumstances.

BTW all of the above do NOT apply to me.

Alex_Simmons/RST

dzp1 wrote:

Hutch trains that way and so do plenty others. In fact you'd be hard pushed to find a coach that doesn't build in an easy week every few weeks or so. If you do find one, sack him.

None of the world record holders, national, world or state champions, local, club, amateur or pro riders I coach get an easy week every three weeks or so. They get recovery if and when they need it.

Alex_Simmons/RST

bahzob wrote:

It is next to impossible for an amateur rider to train so hard they really need recovery.

This is, quite simply, wrong.
On so many levels.

jgsi

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

bahzob wrote:

It is next to impossible for an amateur rider to train so hard they really need recovery.

This is, quite simply, wrong.
On so many levels.

Thanks Alex for a few sensible words!
On the need for recovery, what broad criteria do you use to allow the training intensity to back off for Ave Joe Athlete?
a poor 'test' result?
Ave Joe having a 'moan' ....

I add in here that I am using Golden Cheetah to monitor training... however, just a very novice user and have only logged 6 weeks worth of ridedata up to now and realise that I have long way to go with it.

Alex_Simmons/RST

JGSI wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

bahzob wrote:

It is next to impossible for an amateur rider to train so hard they really need recovery.

This is, quite simply, wrong.
On so many levels.

Thanks Alex for a few sensible words!
On the need for recovery, what broad criteria do you use to allow the training intensity to back off for Ave Joe Athlete?
a poor 'test' result?
Ave Joe having a 'moan' ....

I add in here that I am using Golden Cheetah to monitor training... however, just a very novice user and have only logged 6 weeks worth of ridedata up to now and realise that I have long way to go with it.

The signs are multifactoral, and are a combination of reduced performance over a numbers of days (not just one), as well as a range of other markers including:
- mood changes (e.g. moody, irritable, reduced desire/enthusiasm for training),
- sleep (volume and quality) or insomnia,
- ROL* stress factors,
- mental stress,
- environmental considerations (heat, altitude, humidity) - often associated with travel, jet lag,
- early signs of degraded health (e.g. sniffles, headaches, itchy throat),
- early signs of potential injury or damage (niggles, a recurrence of prior issues, and especially any pain),
- nature of recent training/competition (e.g. very high intensity physical activity typically brings on a needs for recovery sooner rather than later),
- changes in diet (e.g. a loss of appetite) and so on.

The need for recovery is not just a physical thing either.

OK, so it's not a simple equation and the issues above can be acute or chronic in nature, but if 2-3 days running you are unable to perform the intended training (durations and at desired intensities) despite attempting to, then that's a pretty good indicator you need some recovery time. One bad day can be down to a range of things and not itself indicative of a need for a dedicated recovery period.

You can record the factors I mentioned above (often with a simple rating scale or just keep a good training diary) and monitor these things to see if there are a few too many warning signs creeping in.

Simple sensations of leg fatigue for example are not enough per se, as that may be desirable as riders need to stretch themselves and learn to develop a greater training capacity (and can often learn about their performance even when feeling tired/sore).

While it may not sound scientific, on occasions you do need to push the envelope to find out where the limits are, and use that experience to learn and modify training in future - it does help to keep good records of the sorts of things I mentioned above, and examine that in context of training stress loads as measured with the power meter data.

Everyone has different training load capacities and it's influenced a LOT by what else is going on in life. Think about how much extra training you seem to be able to do on a training camp versus when at home dealing with regular ROLF*.

It's a little like walking along the edge of a cliff in the dark, sometimes you won't know you've gone over until it's too late.


* rest of life factors

Soni

Herbsman wrote:

Get a life

Why on earth do people post things like this? If you cant think of anything constructive to say in response then surely you would be best not responding.