29ers

ddraver

Well whatever, same deal....

supersonic

Specialized spend a lot on advertising with MBR/MBUK

Has nothing to do with test results. At all.

bennett_346

cyd190468 wrote:

Probably because I'm a pedantic science teacher.

Primary school or nursery?

The Rookie

cyd190468 wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

The data is certainly statistically significant in showing 26ers to be slower.

You obviously haven't done statistics at uni .

I don't need to see that the difference is so large and consistent, so as to make it relevant, a larger gap means less tests required, medication is to do with safety not relevance so your analogy is irrelevant!

EH_Rob

He is being pedantic to a point, but it irritates me too so I'll have a rant.

You cannot infer statistical significance by looking at a graph, even if it had error bars. The sample size is too low for robust analysis regardless of what you can see, so even if you did some analysis it's probable that no difference would be detected.

Because his analogy is to do with something else doesn't make it irrelevant, it just suits you to say it is (a bit like when you decided that no statistical test is required for the inference of statistical signficance). He's right in the sense that if you had the resources to conduct a full on, scientifically and statistically valid study, you would be required to go down the route of substantially increasing sample size, as is the case for lots of things where you're looking to detect and measure change. That is the first thing you do to increase the power of a study like this.

I appreciate that this isn't what Matt was trying to do here, and think it's a well written and interesting article when taken at face value.

The Rookie

I'm using the numbers not the graphs.....but I think I'm right, you don't, get over it.

ccrdave

well for what its worth my very unscientific observation. My main bike is (was) a cube stereo, I built a very cheap 29er hardtail to see what the fuss is about, I was very impressed to say the least. In fact I sold the stereo bought myself a 29er giant anthem and its a fantastic bike, faster than the cube, much faster! more stable , nicer to ride and as, if not more flickable than the stereo. It climbs miles better, descends about the same.
I used to be always at the back of the group I ride with , now I am at the front (nearly)
Ok maybe its a different style of bike but I absolutely love it.
I dont think I will be going back to 26, I am not impressed by advertising hype and always try to put my money where my mouth is so to speak, and this time at least for me it paid off.

EH_Rob

I don't agree or disagree with any of your views on the article, that isn't what prompted the comment. I was just pointing out your misunderstanding of 'statistical significance' has caused you to make up a conclusion based on nothing but your own opinion, which goes against the exact purpose of a statistical test.

In defence of cyd, I am a scientist, and as I'm sure you can tell you've found a good way to annoy us!

lostboysaint

ccrdave wrote:

well for what its worth my very unscientific observation. My main bike is (was) a cube stereo, I built a very cheap 29er hardtail to see what the fuss is about, I was very impressed to say the least. In fact I sold the stereo bought myself a 29er giant anthem and its a fantastic bike, faster than the cube, much faster! more stable , nicer to ride and as, if not more flickable than the stereo. It climbs miles better, descends about the same.
I used to be always at the back of the group I ride with , now I am at the front (nearly)
Ok maybe its a different style of bike but I absolutely love it.
I dont think I will be going back to 26, I am not impressed by advertising hype and always try to put my money where my mouth is so to speak, and this time at least for me it paid off.

I look forward to your post when you get a 36er then!

Perhaps you just didn't have the best 26er for your riding?! Interesting that the 29er that you bought is designed to for a significantly different purpose to the 26er that you owned. (a lightweight XC full-sus rocketship vs a mid-travel trail bike)

ccrdave

lostboysaint wrote:

ccrdave wrote:

well for what its worth my very unscientific observation. My main bike is (was) a cube stereo, I built a very cheap 29er hardtail to see what the fuss is about, I was very impressed to say the least. In fact I sold the stereo bought myself a 29er giant anthem and its a fantastic bike, faster than the cube, much faster! more stable , nicer to ride and as, if not more flickable than the stereo. It climbs miles better, descends about the same.
I used to be always at the back of the group I ride with , now I am at the front (nearly)
Ok maybe its a different style of bike but I absolutely love it.
I dont think I will be going back to 26, I am not impressed by advertising hype and always try to put my money where my mouth is so to speak, and this time at least for me it paid off.

I look forward to your post when you get a 36er then!

Perhaps you just didn't have the best 26er for your riding?! Interesting that the 29er that you bought is designed to for a significantly different purpose to the 26er that you owned. (a lightweight XC full-sus rocketship vs a mid-travel trail bike)

yes thats very true, I am aware they are different bikes but I also own a 26inch hardtail and a 29inch hardtail so there was some comparisons to be made, perhaps the stereo was not the right one.

so what 29er do you have to make your comparisons, I would be interested in your opinion
Oh and where can I get the 36er? sounds like a blast!

lostboysaint

I have 26ers, see signature.

I've ridden a number of 29ers, including extensive tests of the Bandit 29er and Inbred 29er (direct comparison with my 26ers), the Scott Scale and Scott Spark and I could see positives to them, but also negatives and they weren't sufficiently "better" than my 26ers to make me want to change.

ccrdave

Ok thanks for your info I guess there will always be positives and negatives and what suits one does not suit another. When I did my comparisons I rode the same trails with both bikes and decided on which one I felt coped with my riding the same trails the best.
well I did say it was very unscientific!!
cheeers

ddraver

lostboysaint wrote:

I have 26ers, see signature.

I've ridden a number of 29ers, including extensive tests of the Bandit 29er and Inbred 29er (direct comparison with my 26ers), the Scott Scale and Scott Spark and I could see positives to them, but also negatives and they weren't sufficiently "better" than my 26ers to make me want to change.

But what would you have bought if you were buying a new bike lbs?

njee20

That's the key I'd say! I'm not rushing to sell my Top Fuel to buy a 29er, but when I do come to change it will almost certainly be to a 29er (with XX1, which I feel the same about).

lostboysaint

ddraver wrote:

lostboysaint wrote:

I have 26ers, see signature.

I've ridden a number of 29ers, including extensive tests of the Bandit 29er and Inbred 29er (direct comparison with my 26ers), the Scott Scale and Scott Spark and I could see positives to them, but also negatives and they weren't sufficiently "better" than my 26ers to make me want to change.

But what would you have bought if you were buying a new bike lbs?

That's not an issue as if I'd preferred any of the 29ers I'd have changed to them. As it is I am contemplating changing the Inbred 26 for a 29 as that's the bike that does more XC work and I could see lots more positives than negatives there, still not sufficient to make it a "yes, absolutely MUST have a 29". The Bandit was very good, but not as good for what I use it for as the 26 version which is infinitely more throwabout. This was proven by riding both the Spark and the Camber (which was really disappointing), both of which were nowhere near as agile as the Bandit 29. I'd like to try the Whyte at some stage as they've gone a similar route to Transition with much shorter chainstays etc. and it could be good.

In summary, I could see myself on a hardtail 29er and a full sus 26. (for the riding that I do!!).

njee20

Would something with 650B wheels not be a better option on a bike like the Bandit?

I doubt I can fit 650B wheels in my Fuel (although I can definitely fit a front one), I'm tempted to give it a go, keeps everything else consistent. A friend has done just that on a Salsa a la Carte ti and really likes it.

The Rookie

ccrdave wrote:

Oh and where can I get the 36er? sounds like a blast!

You build one....make a wheel jig, build a wheel (36" unicyle wheel with MTB hubs and bespoke spokes), you make a jig and build a frame and forks....

ccrdave

Hmm jigging up a frame and fork is easy my guys in the tube section can do that but can you actually buy 36inch rimms and tyres?

I know it was a piss take but it would be fun to try

njee20

36x2.25".

ccrdave

njee20 wrote:

36x2.25".

Oh how cool is that!! cheers
I feel a comedy moment coming on!

The Rookie

I did point out it was a 36" unicycle wheel rim FGS!

Tyre choice is limited and they are heavy.......

pilch

I have 3 (soon to be 4) 29ers 3 x HTs & a FS, I can't think of any riding i've done that was better on a 26" wheel TBH….

Thewaylander

Must not say it.....

Hippies......

Though i will say once i see them on the DH rigs at the world cup i will be thinking 26" is better for my riding till then, since half my time is spent on some form of Light DH at FOD and Cwm i don't think they suit me while i can only afford one bike. Maybe i need 3-4 bikes then I could have one for pure distance duties.

njee20

Can't remember who, but one of the top WC DH racers (could have been Gwin) was testing "not 26" wheels" last week, I'm guessing that's 650b, but still...

Thewaylander

Interesting..

still scary and slightly hippyish if you ask me but interesing.

lostboysaint

njee20 wrote:

Would something with 650B wheels not be a better option on a bike like the Bandit?

I doubt I can fit 650B wheels in my Fuel (although I can definitely fit a front one), I'm tempted to give it a go, keeps everything else consistent. A friend has done just that on a Salsa a la Carte ti and really likes it.

I've thought about that, just not quite got around to trying it............yet!

ddraver

An interesting view from our US cousins, seems I may be wrong...

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/product- ... LTWWuOe_LB

supersonic

"It may seem confusing now, but the industry has made the decision for the consumer."

agg25

So no one else has noticed that one of the graphs in the article is incorrect??? Not even the staff at MBUK it appears. The scale is wrong making it look a LOT worse for the 26" wheeler.

supersonic

It's been commented on earlier.