"Hardcore" hardtails

milko9000

The Beginner wrote:

milko9000 wrote:

Something struck me last night, I'm a bit surprised the Euro box-shifters like Canyon don't seem to have anything in this category.

Euro riding tends to be much more XC like than most of our XC to heavy trail, so the bikes suit those requirements, just like many Euro bikes are a bit short on tyre/mud clearance.

I guess, they still have DJ and 4x bikes in there though amongst it all. Well, some of them do. Anyway, passing observation really, I don't need yet more confusing options!

benpinnick

I built my bro in law a C456/Revs/Full XT/Rovals for just over £1500 earlier this year... FOr a man of your discerning taste I think thats got to be the budget target

EH_Rob

Not the seller, but I'd look at this:

http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1221691/

Seems like a good deal.

milko9000

tempting tempting. I think the forks on that BFe are the same as on my Yeti, so probably a bit burlier than I'm after here. A Pinnick Custom C456 though... ;-)

benpinnick

So all priced up...

C456 In the new style as they're cheaper.
Rev RL 15mm dual airs or sektor RL 20mm solo airs (I know you like simple set up !)
Full XT throughout bar the rotors
Easton Haven bars
£100 for stem, bars, seat post and clamp
Superstar switch/flows or tesla/TL28 wheels
Bounty xr4 2.35 team issues (big to absorb the slightly harsh back end)
S/S rotors and adaptors
Über bike grips
£20 for cables and bits.

Between £1530 and £1600 depending on the wheels.

Sorted. when shall I start

BlueAdvocate

benpinnick wrote:

So all priced up...

C456 In the new style as they're cheaper.
Rev RL 15mm dual airs or sektor RL 20mm solo airs (I know you like simple set up !)
Full XT throughout bar the rotors
Easton Haven bars
£100 for stem, bars, seat post and clamp
Superstar switch/flows or tesla/TL28 wheels
Bounty xr4 2.35 team issues (big to absorb the slightly harsh back end)
S/S rotors and adaptors
Über bike grips
£20 for cables and bits.

Between £1530 and £1600 depending on the wheels.

Sorted. when shall I start

this is more or less what I'm building at the moment; C456, Revs, got some Formula The One FR brakes direct from the land of pasta; full XT (wasn't always the plan but found some deals); Superstar Flows deal for the wheels; Bars/Stem I'm undecided (Nukeproof Warhead, Easton Havoc, Deity Dirty 30/Fantom). Go for 1degre slackset as well; SS Nano pedals

welshkev

cove stiffee?

milko9000

I need to get a ride of a C456. That looks like the way I'll go but can't shake the feeling that I don't like it enough aesthetically! Mind you the new orange/white looks smart. But yeah. For around the same price (ish), a Stanton Slackline looks very pretty indeed. And hm, weighs a lot more and not so simple for a dropper post...

benpinnick

Or go 650b...

milko9000

Hahaha oh yeah, more choice is definitely what I need right now. Was mentioning this to a C456 owner on Facebook who said "or how about 29er?" too.

I think though that I'd rather wait til both/either are well-established norms though, I assume components are gonna be pricey still. There again, at least one of the frames I was looking at could take 650b as well as 26er wheels, future proof versatility!

steve_muzzy

Shame genesis don't make the abyss anymore, mate has one and its great!

BlueAdvocate

I looked at number of hardtails: slackline, stiffee, surge, chumba , hx1, bfe, c456, alpine etc; i was stuck between c456 and the new bfe for about 2 months. I guess the weight swayed me , as well as peoples views, to the c456, but I like the new bfe with its changes.
As for looks well that is a subjective view,i don't buy they are inherently ugly. You can't really compare with steel as the material just deems the tubing to be very different. Now,i apologise to Cove owners, the stiffee is as agricultural as you can get with its slab sided front end.
Colours...hmmm different kettle of fish here. I've gone for the new yellow and black decals.... hmmm... not a mustard yellow like the old undecalled one but a kind of yellow/green in the acid house/rave genre. Its growing on me , pretty sure it will look good with combination of black kit. A definite marmite choice, you shall see me from a distance.

welshkev

BlueAdvocate wrote:

. Now,i apologise to Cove owners, the stiffee is as agricultural as you can get with its slab sided front end.
Colo.

no offence taken from me. it's a bike, i ride it. tbh, how a bike looks is quite low down on the list of priorities for me

BlueAdvocate

welshkev wrote:

BlueAdvocate wrote:

. Now,i apologise to Cove owners, the stiffee is as agricultural as you can get with its slab sided front end.
Colo.

no offence taken from me. it's a bike, i ride it. tbh, how a bike looks is quite low down on the list of priorities for me

Couldn't agree more

milko9000

I'm not saying all steel frames are pretty or all carbon ones are ugly. But the C456 is not much to my taste (it ain't that bad, it's just not that good either for me) and the Slackline certainly is. And maybe its my poncey designer background but the bike looks ARE reasonably high on my list. I don't mind admitting it :-) If two frames are roughly equal in objective "goodness" and price, I'm left with looks next. So there's all these similar (ish) geo/features frames like Slackline, C456, BFe, Prince Albert/Alpine, and all of them scoring very nice reviews everywhere. And not many of them easy to find a test ride of either.


phwoar, eh lads?

benpinnick

I have to say the C456 aint pretty. Its not just the paintjob either, the whole frame design is pretty damned ugly. And the cable routing is a bit mental too.

paulneenan76

BlueAdvocate wrote:

I looked at number of hardtails: slackline, stiffee, surge, chumba , hx1, bfe, c456, alpine etc; i was stuck between c456 and the new bfe for about 2 months. I guess the weight swayed me , as well as peoples views, to the c456, but I like the new bfe with its changes.
As for looks well that is a subjective view,i don't buy they are inherently ugly. You can't really compare with steel as the material just deems the tubing to be very different. Now,i apologise to Cove owners, the stiffee is as agricultural as you can get with its slab sided front end.
Colours...hmmm different kettle of fish here. I've gone for the new yellow and black decals.... hmmm... not a mustard yellow like the old undecalled one but a kind of yellow/green in the acid house/rave genre. Its growing on me , pretty sure it will look good with combination of black kit. A definite marmite choice, you shall see me from a distance.

Have you got any pictures of the newer yellow? Or stick em on the C456 owners thread.

Looks are personal, but apart from the odd weird build, I'd say a carbon 456 is no fugly frame! Sure it's not overly pretty or elegant but nothing I've ever wanted to thrash, drop or get covered in crap has been :^) I don't wanna take it home to momma, I won't it to be a cheap but refined sl*t who's got all the right moves ;D

BlueAdvocate

paulneenan76 wrote:

BlueAdvocate wrote:

I looked at number of hardtails: slackline, stiffee, surge, chumba , hx1, bfe, c456, alpine etc; i was stuck between c456 and the new bfe for about 2 months. I guess the weight swayed me , as well as peoples views, to the c456, but I like the new bfe with its changes.
As for looks well that is a subjective view,i don't buy they are inherently ugly. You can't really compare with steel as the material just deems the tubing to be very different. Now,i apologise to Cove owners, the stiffee is as agricultural as you can get with its slab sided front end.
Colours...hmmm different kettle of fish here. I've gone for the new yellow and black decals.... hmmm... not a mustard yellow like the old undecalled one but a kind of yellow/green in the acid house/rave genre. Its growing on me , pretty sure it will look good with combination of black kit. A definite marmite choice, you shall see me from a distance.

Have you got any pictures of the newer yellow? Or stick em on the C456 owners thread.

Looks are personal, but apart from the odd weird build, I'd say a carbon 456 is no fugly frame! Sure it's not overly pretty or elegant but nothing I've ever wanted to thrash, drop or get covered in crap has been :^) I don't wanna take it home to momma, I won't it to be a cheap but refined sl*t who's got all the right moves ;D

I will sort some pics out, get some sunglasses on 8)

From a steel point of view I really like the new BFe with the changes. If I decide I can't get on with the c456 I can move everything I have onto a BFe (apart from headset).

Plyphon

I was looking at buying a 456 Evo - can anyone comment on the VFM on the complete bike - or is it worth buying parts separate?

linky to the spec:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FBOO4561X5/ ... ektor_bike

Sorry to hi-jack thread, but almost same topic so ya kno

supersonic

Probably could build it cheaper with careful picking ie Deore:

http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/m ... upset.html

The Northern Monkey

Whats all this talk of lightweight hardcore hardtails?!

The point of a HC hardtail is to be as nuts as possible!

Banshee/Mythic Morphine for example. Shame they stopped making it!

milko9000

Haha. I'm in agreement about the nuts thing, but I'm not sure the weight being light necessarily detracts from this!

C456:
+ light
+ dropper post compatibility
+ pretty flexible on build options
- beaten by ugly stick
- cable routing

Slackline
+ so pretty
+ eminently suited to hooning about jumping off things and whatnot
- 27.2mm seatpost means not many droppers suit?
- oldskool little headtube?
- also a bit of a heavy one

BFe
+ modern gubbins on old-skool frame (dropper post and head tube)
+ versatile
- bit of a weighty beast

I think those three are my shortlist and they all come in at the same kind of price it seems. I'm not by any means going to be using this exclusively for uplift days or something - that'd be for my Yeti already. So ability to pedal about does come into it quite a lot too. It's just I'm looking for something that encourages mucking about in the process rather than outright racing speed.

supersonic

Do looks matter that much?! I'd take the 2lbs weight saving, every time! Is a proven frame.

milko9000

There's quite a few people though saying the weight saving isn't really all that important too! I'm so confused. Also there's much talk of the 456's harsh ride and I guess (but may be mistaken in thinking) that the steel ones would be more compliant on that? If I do come down to finding weight important then yes the 456 is a clear winner and it'll be the one I choose despite preferring not to look at it. (And will get in a garish colour rather than stealthy black, might as well go the whole hog and embrace it)

Also, proven it may be but 50% of the people I know with one (ie, one out of two :-) ) have cracks in it that On One aren't letting them have a warranty replacement on actually, so there is that.

supersonic

Some people place more emphasis on weight than others, if you are not one of them then it will not be a problem. Steel is the stiffest frame material out there - it is how it is manufactured that makes the difference ie tube profiling. Frame stiffness regarding comfort is very much offset by good choice of components elsewhere ie tyres.

Can you get any test riding?

booyaka

If your near west coast of scotland - you can test my large C456 build if you want anytime.

milko9000

I'm way down South or I'd take you up on that booyaka, thanks. I can get a go on deadkenny's C456 hopefully. On Saturday. Sadly getting a go on the other contenders is not gonna be so easy.

I don't honestly know if weight would be important to me. My bike history goes Specialized Hardrock -> Cube LTD Race -> Yeti SB-66. Like I say, the Yeti's built burly so a lighter machine would be nice, but on the other hand against that all of these bikes will feel light.

ilovedirt

Depends what you want to do, my hardtail is pretty nuts, but I ride it all day. A weight saving of 2lbs can make some difference in that sort of environment. That said, mine isn't the lightest, but I reckon I could get it down some pretty gnarly downhill runs (taken it down a few, and it does do well, but it depends how rough it is. Steep and tech It can deal with, relentless rocky stuff is different). On an uplifted ride though, I would always take the Sunday. It is pretty scary how little grip you get on the back wheel on a hardtail though. Wet roots become a serious problem, particularly on slow parts where you can't hop them.

So all you guys with your girly carbon 456's thinking they're 'hardcore' can go suck a butt
64deg head angle, nuff said.

milko9000

Had a go on a slightly small C456 and a slightly big Chameleon today in Surrey Hills. It was pretty fun! They felt fine, super light front end on that Santa Cruz though. Felt ridiculously easy to pop the front wheel up, almost too much so. Don't think I want one of those but it was good. And yeah, the On One was very amusing, all light and encouraging being thrown about everywhere. Starting to think its the front runner.

paulneenan76

Shame you can't demo a couple of others but if you prefer it over a Santa Cruz that's gotta be a bloody good choice right?

Better start thinking colour and spec now