Seemingly trivial things that cheer you up

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

More (correct) tax being paid means a lower deficit for the country, surely? This story's definitely one for the good news thread.

That's not my point here, as you can see.

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

sounds to me like HRMC should be applauded for doing some basic checks to stop people defrauding them.

You would think that there would be a paper trail for significant gifts

rick_chasey

Bit worried it's news tbh. Do they not normally go after money that's owed to them?

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

More (correct) tax being paid means a lower deficit for the country, surely? This story's definitely one for the good news thread.

That's not my point here, as you can see.

You thought people should be let off paying if they can make a case that it was a bit complex?

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

More (correct) tax being paid means a lower deficit for the country, surely? This story's definitely one for the good news thread.

That's not my point here, as you can see.

It was Brian's point, I think.

Your quotes just make it better news, because the accuracy is improving.

Stevo_666

Interesting responses but they doesn't address my point above to Brian about complexity.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

Interesting responses but they doesn't address my point above to Brian about complexity.

It's good that the HMRC are helping people with this complexity, and enabling them to pay the right amount.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

Interesting responses but they doesn't address my point above to Brian about complexity.

It's good that the HMRC are helping people with this complexity, and enabling them to pay the right amount.

Have you tried getting help from them?

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

More (correct) tax being paid means a lower deficit for the country, surely? This story's definitely one for the good news thread.

That's not my point here, as you can see.

You thought people should be let off paying if they can make a case that it was a bit complex?

No.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Bit worried it's news tbh. Do they not normally go after money that's owed to them?

They are not shy in doing that. Sometimes they have a new initiative and focus on a certain area.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

Interesting responses but they doesn't address my point above to Brian about complexity.

It's good that the HMRC are helping people with this complexity, and enabling them to pay the right amount.

Have you tried getting help from them?

OK, it wasn't help they'd requested, but obviously help they needed.

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

sounds to me like HRMC should be applauded for doing some basic checks to stop people defrauding them.

You would think that there would be a paper trail for significant gifts

Maybe, but when the person dies it can be easier said than done to track that down. As mentioned in the article.

In the end it's an avoidable tax with a bit of planning (and assuming you're not really unlucky and get hit by a bus).

rick_chasey

Does that not mean it ought to be engineered better? If it's easily avoidable with planning?

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

sounds to me like HRMC should be applauded for doing some basic checks to stop people defrauding them.

You would think that there would be a paper trail for significant gifts

Maybe, but when the person dies it can be easier said than done to track that down. As mentioned in the article.

In the end it's an avoidable tax with a bit of planning (and assuming you're not really unlucky and get hit by a bus).

I agree and if I was IHT planning then I would have a paper trail of evidence to show when I gifted the Monet and the antique Bentley.

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

sounds to me like HRMC should be applauded for doing some basic checks to stop people defrauding them.

You would think that there would be a paper trail for significant gifts

Maybe, but when the person dies it can be easier said than done to track that down. As mentioned in the article.

In the end it's an avoidable tax with a bit of planning (and assuming you're not really unlucky and get hit by a bus).

I agree and if I was IHT planning then I would have a paper trail of evidence to show when I gifted the Monet and the antique Bentley.

I think you and I are maybe more aware than most of this sort of thing. Although there are plenty other things you can do which don't rely on gifting and therefore on surviving 7 years afterwards (hence the bus comment).

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Does that not mean it ought to be engineered better? If it's easily avoidable with planning?

Possibly, but I have no real interest in thinking up how to reduce what my wife and daughter will get when I croak.

Stevo_666

Or even before I croak as the same sensible planning can save on care fees as well. That is likely to affect more people tbh.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

sounds to me like HRMC should be applauded for doing some basic checks to stop people defrauding them.

You would think that there would be a paper trail for significant gifts

Maybe, but when the person dies it can be easier said than done to track that down. As mentioned in the article.

In the end it's an avoidable tax with a bit of planning (and assuming you're not really unlucky and get hit by a bus).

Thanks... seems you agree with me. If you've got a sizeable estate, get good advice, and you won't end up overpaying, or misunderstanding the complexities. It's not as if it's a secret tax that HMRC suddenly pop up and say "Surprise!" when someone with a large estate croaks. I'm sure with your professional skill, you'd not expect to get away with a defence of ignorance if HMRC came knocking at your door. Same rule applies to everyone, thankfully.

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

Interesting responses but they doesn't address my point above to Brian about complexity.

It's good that the HMRC are helping people with this complexity, and enabling them to pay the right amount.

Have you tried getting help from them?

I found them very helpful when I had an issue due to the family tax credit system (as were you to be fair). It was a bit hard getting to the right person to start with but after that it was all sorted sensibly, I paid what I owed over a realistic time without any unreasonable penalty as they accepted it was a genuine mistake. That might be as they had so many people with the same problem though so had a dedicated team.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

sounds to me like HRMC should be applauded for doing some basic checks to stop people defrauding them.

You would think that there would be a paper trail for significant gifts

Maybe, but when the person dies it can be easier said than done to track that down. As mentioned in the article.

In the end it's an avoidable tax with a bit of planning (and assuming you're not really unlucky and get hit by a bus).

Thanks... seems you agree with me. If you've got a sizeable estate, get good advice, and you won't end up overpaying, or misunderstanding the complexities. It's not as if it's a secret tax that HMRC suddenly pop up and say "Surprise!" when someone with a large estate croaks. I'm sure with your professional skill, you'd not expect to get away with a defence of ignorance if HMRC came knocking at your door. Same rule applies to everyone, thankfully.

I've never said ignorance is a defence. The point is that it is easy to make a mistake if you're not an expert. Similarly, it is easy to have a disagreement with HMRC even if you do know what you are doing given the inherent difficulties of valuing certain assets/types of assets.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

Interesting responses but they doesn't address my point above to Brian about complexity.

It's good that the HMRC are helping people with this complexity, and enabling them to pay the right amount.

Have you tried getting help from them?

I found them very helpful when I had an issue due to the family tax credit system (as were you to be fair). It was a bit hard getting to the right person to start with but after that it was all sorted sensibly, I paid what I owed over a realistic time without any unreasonable penalty as they accepted it was a genuine mistake. That might be as they had so many people with the same problem though so had a dedicated team.

Quite possibly as that is a common issue as you say. Others have not been so lucky in my experience.

pangolin

Still not sure what your point to Brian was.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

The Telegraph headline:

"HMRC targets bereaved families with raid on inheritance tax"

I'm not sure what people The Telegraph thinks are the target of inheritance tax... hard not to be bereaved if you're about to inherit from a dead relation.

A more accurate headline would be "Correct inheritance tax collected."

It cheers me up that you think tax is that simple. From the same article:
Some of the families investigated by HMRC may have knowingly avoided paying death duties. But others are likely to have fallen foul of complex IHT rules and difficulties valuing assets.

Mr Warburton said: “Property and shares are relatively straightforward but problems can arise with valuable chattels such as pictures and antiques. HMRC have wised up to that and now ask to see details of home contents insurance to spot missing items from the assets submitted.

“Another problem arises with lifetime gifts. Gifts within seven years before the death typically form part of the estate, but how do the executors know about these when the person they most want to ask has inconveniently just died? If they kept detailed records that is great, but many people do not do so.”

sounds to me like HRMC should be applauded for doing some basic checks to stop people defrauding them.

You would think that there would be a paper trail for significant gifts

Maybe, but when the person dies it can be easier said than done to track that down. As mentioned in the article.

In the end it's an avoidable tax with a bit of planning (and assuming you're not really unlucky and get hit by a bus).

Thanks... seems you agree with me. If you've got a sizeable estate, get good advice, and you won't end up overpaying, or misunderstanding the complexities. It's not as if it's a secret tax that HMRC suddenly pop up and say "Surprise!" when someone with a large estate croaks. I'm sure with your professional skill, you'd not expect to get away with a defence of ignorance if HMRC came knocking at your door. Same rule applies to everyone, thankfully.

I've never said ignorance is a defence. The point is that it is easy to make a mistake if you're not an expert. Similarly, it is easy to have a disagreement with HMRC even if you do know what you are doing given the inherent difficulties of valuing certain assets/types of assets.

Big amount of money: get a qualified expert, and then if the expert is wrong, you sue them. DIY inheritance tax can be an expensive mistake, but don't expect HMRC to say "Oh, that's OK, we know it's complex, so you can keep the money."

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Still not sure what your point to Brian was.

See 2 posts up from yours.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Still not sure what your point to Brian was.

See 2 posts up from yours.

I'm not sure what that explains either. Neither ignorance nor lack of expertise negates HRMC's duty to collect tax due.

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Still not sure what your point to Brian was.

See 2 posts up from yours.

Which doesn't disagree with his post that they were just collecting the correct tax.

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Still not sure what your point to Brian was.

See 2 posts up from yours.

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Still not sure what your point to Brian was.

See 2 posts up from yours.

I'm not sure what that explains either. Neither ignorance nor lack of expertise negates HRMC's duty to collect tax due.

Again, I didn't say it did. It seems there is an outbreak of 'reading what you want to read not what I wrote' on the forum today

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Still not sure what your point to Brian was.

See 2 posts up from yours.

Which doesn't disagree with his post that they were just collecting the correct tax.

If you read my post, specifically the bit about the inherent difficulty in valuing certain assets, you might appreciate that there is not necessarily a 'black and white' right amount of tax.

kingstongraham

Like reading Brian's post and thinking "I assume what he really means is that inheritance tax rules are simple"?

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Still not sure what your point to Brian was.

See 2 posts up from yours.

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Still not sure what your point to Brian was.

See 2 posts up from yours.

I'm not sure what that explains either. Neither ignorance nor lack of expertise negates HRMC's duty to collect tax due.

Again, I didn't say it did. It seems there is an outbreak of 'reading what you want to read not what I wrote' on the forum today

I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say then, other than it can be complicated, which is the bit you quoted from the article first. Rewiring house is complicated, so I'm not going to do it, as I might end up dead. I pay an expert.