Seemingly trivial things that cheer you up
Comments
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Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
But what about the UK as a whole, rather than higher-rate taxpayers?
It's a serious question... how could anyone have done worse than the Tories? Pretty much everything they've done has been a misstep, whether that's PPE procurement, handling of Brexit, Truss's 'fiscal event', and so on. It's hard to find a financial decision they've called right, except maybe Hunt's unavoidable U-turn on just about anything that defines Conservatism (or at least the recent iteration of it).0 -
Yeah, they want to, they really really do, honest. This time they promise. It's just that they left the tax cuts in their other jacket.Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actually wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
🤣
BTW, a 10 year legal fight over £22m? Who's paying costs?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The cost is irrelevant, they got one over on the Frenchrjsterry said:
Yeah, they want to, they really really do, honest. This time they promise. It's just that they left the tax cuts in their other jacket.Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actually wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
🤣
BTW, a 10 year legal fight over £22m? Who's paying costs?
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^ but 'we' got one over on the leftiebollox Frenchies, took us 10 years and legal fees were £3m p.a. but a win is a win.0
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Those Frenchies: they don't like it up 'em...
Hang on...seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Not if they didn't get costs.Pross said:
The cost is irrelevant, they got one over on the Frenchrjsterry said:
Yeah, they want to, they really really do, honest. This time they promise. It's just that they left the tax cuts in their other jacket.Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actually wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
🤣
BTW, a 10 year legal fight over £22m? Who's paying costs?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Still owned the Frenchies and kept their hands off £22 million hard earned English pounds. It’s worth £30 million in legal fees any day but a Leftie Remoaner can’t be expected to understand this.rjsterry said:
Not if they didn't get costs.Pross said:
The cost is irrelevant, they got one over on the Frenchrjsterry said:
Yeah, they want to, they really really do, honest. This time they promise. It's just that they left the tax cuts in their other jacket.Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actually wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
🤣
BTW, a 10 year legal fight over £22m? Who's paying costs?0 -
Although, I do not think the company he works for is Engerlish.Pross said:
Still owned the Frenchies and kept their hands off £22 million hard earned English pounds. It’s worth £30 million in legal fees any day but a Leftie Remoaner can’t be expected to understand this.rjsterry said:
Not if they didn't get costs.Pross said:
The cost is irrelevant, they got one over on the Frenchrjsterry said:
Yeah, they want to, they really really do, honest. This time they promise. It's just that they left the tax cuts in their other jacket.Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actually wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
🤣
BTW, a 10 year legal fight over £22m? Who's paying costs?seanoconn - gruagach craic!1 -
Hard to say, but Labour's instincts have always been to tax first and ask questions later. Businesses would likely be worse off and not sure what that would have done for investment etc.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
But what about the UK as a whole, rather than higher-rate taxpayers?
It's a serious question... how could anyone have done worse than the Tories? Pretty much everything they've done has been a misstep, whether that's PPE procurement, handling of Brexit, Truss's 'fiscal event', and so on. It's hard to find a financial decision they've called right, except maybe Hunt's unavoidable U-turn on just about anything that defines Conservatism (or at least the recent iteration of it).
I'm sure you recall well those issues where there were mistakes (real and/or perceived). You may have missed a few like the vaccine rollout and support for Ukraine, for example."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The size of the win dwarfs the legal fees. We take a rational view on these things and if the costs outweigh the benefits then we don't always fight it. This one was big and well worth it on a cost/benefit basis. It wasn't just the €22m, if we had lost it would have cost another €2m a year going forward.rjsterry said:
Yeah, they want to, they really really do, honest. This time they promise. It's just that they left the tax cuts in their other jacket.Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actually wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
🤣
BTW, a 10 year legal fight over £22m? Who's paying costs?
Although as winners we do get some compensation from the French highwaymen, sorry - administration.
It will also be quite good for me come annual appraisal time - the Chief Exec has already sent a very nice email "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
See my post above. The satisfaction of beating the Frech tax man over what was in the end a try on by them is just the icing on the cake.Pross said:
The cost is irrelevant, they got one over on the Frenchrjsterry said:
Yeah, they want to, they really really do, honest. This time they promise. It's just that they left the tax cuts in their other jacket.Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actually wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
🤣
BTW, a 10 year legal fight over £22m? Who's paying costs?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
See above...orraloon said:^ but 'we' got one over on the leftiebollox Frenchies, took us 10 years and legal fees were £3m p.a. but a win is a win.
The financial benefits net of fees are substantial. It's what I get paid for
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
😀 Sounds good. And a more sensible cost-benefit balance than construction litigation. 😬Stevo_666 said:
The size of the win dwarfs the legal fees. We take a rational view on these things and if the costs outweigh the benefits then we don't always fight it. This one was big and well worth it on a cost/benefit basis. It wasn't just the €22m, if we had lost it would have cost another €2m a year going forward.rjsterry said:
Yeah, they want to, they really really do, honest. This time they promise. It's just that they left the tax cuts in their other jacket.Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actually wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
🤣
BTW, a 10 year legal fight over £22m? Who's paying costs?
Although as winners we do get some compensation from the French highwaymen, sorry - administration.
It will also be quite good for me come annual appraisal time - the Chief Exec has already sent a very nice email1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I won't ask...rjsterry said:
😀 Sounds good. And a more sensible cost-benefit balance than construction litigation. 😬Stevo_666 said:
The size of the win dwarfs the legal fees. We take a rational view on these things and if the costs outweigh the benefits then we don't always fight it. This one was big and well worth it on a cost/benefit basis. It wasn't just the €22m, if we had lost it would have cost another €2m a year going forward.rjsterry said:
Yeah, they want to, they really really do, honest. This time they promise. It's just that they left the tax cuts in their other jacket.Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actually wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
🤣
BTW, a 10 year legal fight over £22m? Who's paying costs?
Although as winners we do get some compensation from the French highwaymen, sorry - administration.
It will also be quite good for me come annual appraisal time - the Chief Exec has already sent a very nice email
In our case a lot of the cost was our advisors having to pull together fairly long and technical tax/legal docs for submission to the courts. The hearings themselves were pretty brief (or non existent - the Supreme Court stage was a written submission, no in-person appearances). What drew it out is that neither side wanted to give up because of the amounts at stake so it went all the way up the Supreme Court via a tribunal and 2 lower levels of court. Luckily its a French specific tax so they can't appeal to the European courts and the decision is now final.
Just need to find an excuse to get over to Paris for a celebratory p1ss up "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Higher standard of living however, so who's the real mug?Stevo_666 said:
I think that's a significant factor in France's bloated state spending problem and from memory is something that Macron is trying to get under control - but struggling to do because they go on strike as soon as anyone tries to change anything. Quelle surprise...rick_chasey said:
That's mainly pensions isn't it?Stevo_666 said:
So does that mean every other country in the world apart from France is screwed? Because France pay the most in the world.as a percentage of GDP.pinno said:
So we don't pay as much tax as the French and we don't put as much into pubic spending.Stevo_666 said:
No wonder we're fcuked.
To be fair to Macron, he is trying to reduce public spending - why do you think that is? (Although without much success).
Can you explain the track record under Blair then please?Stevo_666 said:
Hard to say, but Labour's instincts have always been to tax first and ask questions later. Businesses would likely be worse off and not sure what that would have done for investment etc.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
But what about the UK as a whole, rather than higher-rate taxpayers?
It's a serious question... how could anyone have done worse than the Tories? Pretty much everything they've done has been a misstep, whether that's PPE procurement, handling of Brexit, Truss's 'fiscal event', and so on. It's hard to find a financial decision they've called right, except maybe Hunt's unavoidable U-turn on just about anything that defines Conservatism (or at least the recent iteration of it).
I'm sure you recall well those issues where there were mistakes (real and/or perceived). You may have missed a few like the vaccine rollout and support for Ukraine, for example.0 -
To be fair to Blair, he was happy with a 40% top rate of income tax. Care to explain why that was so unacceptable because a Tory proposed restoring it?rick_chasey said:
Higher standard of living however, so who's the real mug?Stevo_666 said:
I think that's a significant factor in France's bloated state spending problem and from memory is something that Macron is trying to get under control - but struggling to do because they go on strike as soon as anyone tries to change anything. Quelle surprise...rick_chasey said:
That's mainly pensions isn't it?Stevo_666 said:
So does that mean every other country in the world apart from France is screwed? Because France pay the most in the world.as a percentage of GDP.pinno said:
So we don't pay as much tax as the French and we don't put as much into pubic spending.Stevo_666 said:
No wonder we're fcuked.
To be fair to Macron, he is trying to reduce public spending - why do you think that is? (Although without much success).
Can you explain the track record under Blair then please?Stevo_666 said:
Hard to say, but Labour's instincts have always been to tax first and ask questions later. Businesses would likely be worse off and not sure what that would have done for investment etc.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
But what about the UK as a whole, rather than higher-rate taxpayers?
It's a serious question... how could anyone have done worse than the Tories? Pretty much everything they've done has been a misstep, whether that's PPE procurement, handling of Brexit, Truss's 'fiscal event', and so on. It's hard to find a financial decision they've called right, except maybe Hunt's unavoidable U-turn on just about anything that defines Conservatism (or at least the recent iteration of it).
I'm sure you recall well those issues where there were mistakes (real and/or perceived). You may have missed a few like the vaccine rollout and support for Ukraine, for example.
Brown, however, put the top rate up to 50% just before Labour got booted out in a bit of a 'scorched earth' move."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ask the current tory government.0
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Because they had this thing called growth, which means they didn't have to raise loads of taxes.Stevo_666 said:
To be fair to Blair, he was happy with a 40% top rate of income tax. Care to explain why that was so unacceptable because a Tory proposed restoring it?rick_chasey said:
Higher standard of living however, so who's the real mug?Stevo_666 said:
I think that's a significant factor in France's bloated state spending problem and from memory is something that Macron is trying to get under control - but struggling to do because they go on strike as soon as anyone tries to change anything. Quelle surprise...rick_chasey said:
That's mainly pensions isn't it?Stevo_666 said:
So does that mean every other country in the world apart from France is screwed? Because France pay the most in the world.as a percentage of GDP.pinno said:
So we don't pay as much tax as the French and we don't put as much into pubic spending.Stevo_666 said:
No wonder we're fcuked.
To be fair to Macron, he is trying to reduce public spending - why do you think that is? (Although without much success).
Can you explain the track record under Blair then please?Stevo_666 said:
Hard to say, but Labour's instincts have always been to tax first and ask questions later. Businesses would likely be worse off and not sure what that would have done for investment etc.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
But what about the UK as a whole, rather than higher-rate taxpayers?
It's a serious question... how could anyone have done worse than the Tories? Pretty much everything they've done has been a misstep, whether that's PPE procurement, handling of Brexit, Truss's 'fiscal event', and so on. It's hard to find a financial decision they've called right, except maybe Hunt's unavoidable U-turn on just about anything that defines Conservatism (or at least the recent iteration of it).
I'm sure you recall well those issues where there were mistakes (real and/or perceived). You may have missed a few like the vaccine rollout and support for Ukraine, for example.
Brown, however, put the top rate up to 50% just before Labour got booted out in a bit of a 'scorched earth' move.
Alas, the Tories can't manage that after a decade and a half.
0 -
I think it would be safe to say no referendum and no Jezza so I think it is a long way from conclusive that we would have done worse.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
Stopping child benefit and freezing allowances far outweigh fiddling with the odd % on the rate0 -
Growth followed by big crash.rick_chasey said:
Because they had this thing called growth, which means they didn't have to raise loads of taxes.Stevo_666 said:
To be fair to Blair, he was happy with a 40% top rate of income tax. Care to explain why that was so unacceptable because a Tory proposed restoring it?rick_chasey said:
Higher standard of living however, so who's the real mug?Stevo_666 said:
I think that's a significant factor in France's bloated state spending problem and from memory is something that Macron is trying to get under control - but struggling to do because they go on strike as soon as anyone tries to change anything. Quelle surprise...rick_chasey said:
That's mainly pensions isn't it?Stevo_666 said:
So does that mean every other country in the world apart from France is screwed? Because France pay the most in the world.as a percentage of GDP.pinno said:
So we don't pay as much tax as the French and we don't put as much into pubic spending.Stevo_666 said:
No wonder we're fcuked.
To be fair to Macron, he is trying to reduce public spending - why do you think that is? (Although without much success).
Can you explain the track record under Blair then please?Stevo_666 said:
Hard to say, but Labour's instincts have always been to tax first and ask questions later. Businesses would likely be worse off and not sure what that would have done for investment etc.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
But what about the UK as a whole, rather than higher-rate taxpayers?
It's a serious question... how could anyone have done worse than the Tories? Pretty much everything they've done has been a misstep, whether that's PPE procurement, handling of Brexit, Truss's 'fiscal event', and so on. It's hard to find a financial decision they've called right, except maybe Hunt's unavoidable U-turn on just about anything that defines Conservatism (or at least the recent iteration of it).
I'm sure you recall well those issues where there were mistakes (real and/or perceived). You may have missed a few like the vaccine rollout and support for Ukraine, for example.
Brown, however, put the top rate up to 50% just before Labour got booted out in a bit of a 'scorched earth' move.
Alas, the Tories can't manage that after a decade and a half.0 -
...and that was labour's fault...because?TheBigBean said:
Growth followed by big crash.rick_chasey said:
Because they had this thing called growth, which means they didn't have to raise loads of taxes.Stevo_666 said:
To be fair to Blair, he was happy with a 40% top rate of income tax. Care to explain why that was so unacceptable because a Tory proposed restoring it?rick_chasey said:
Higher standard of living however, so who's the real mug?Stevo_666 said:
I think that's a significant factor in France's bloated state spending problem and from memory is something that Macron is trying to get under control - but struggling to do because they go on strike as soon as anyone tries to change anything. Quelle surprise...rick_chasey said:
That's mainly pensions isn't it?Stevo_666 said:
So does that mean every other country in the world apart from France is screwed? Because France pay the most in the world.as a percentage of GDP.pinno said:
So we don't pay as much tax as the French and we don't put as much into pubic spending.Stevo_666 said:
No wonder we're fcuked.
To be fair to Macron, he is trying to reduce public spending - why do you think that is? (Although without much success).
Can you explain the track record under Blair then please?Stevo_666 said:
Hard to say, but Labour's instincts have always been to tax first and ask questions later. Businesses would likely be worse off and not sure what that would have done for investment etc.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
But what about the UK as a whole, rather than higher-rate taxpayers?
It's a serious question... how could anyone have done worse than the Tories? Pretty much everything they've done has been a misstep, whether that's PPE procurement, handling of Brexit, Truss's 'fiscal event', and so on. It's hard to find a financial decision they've called right, except maybe Hunt's unavoidable U-turn on just about anything that defines Conservatism (or at least the recent iteration of it).
I'm sure you recall well those issues where there were mistakes (real and/or perceived). You may have missed a few like the vaccine rollout and support for Ukraine, for example.
Brown, however, put the top rate up to 50% just before Labour got booted out in a bit of a 'scorched earth' move.
Alas, the Tories can't manage that after a decade and a half.0 -
Was the growth due to Labour?rick_chasey said:
...and that was labour's fault...because?TheBigBean said:
Growth followed by big crash.rick_chasey said:
Because they had this thing called growth, which means they didn't have to raise loads of taxes.Stevo_666 said:
To be fair to Blair, he was happy with a 40% top rate of income tax. Care to explain why that was so unacceptable because a Tory proposed restoring it?rick_chasey said:
Higher standard of living however, so who's the real mug?Stevo_666 said:
I think that's a significant factor in France's bloated state spending problem and from memory is something that Macron is trying to get under control - but struggling to do because they go on strike as soon as anyone tries to change anything. Quelle surprise...rick_chasey said:
That's mainly pensions isn't it?Stevo_666 said:
So does that mean every other country in the world apart from France is screwed? Because France pay the most in the world.as a percentage of GDP.pinno said:
So we don't pay as much tax as the French and we don't put as much into pubic spending.Stevo_666 said:
No wonder we're fcuked.
To be fair to Macron, he is trying to reduce public spending - why do you think that is? (Although without much success).
Can you explain the track record under Blair then please?Stevo_666 said:
Hard to say, but Labour's instincts have always been to tax first and ask questions later. Businesses would likely be worse off and not sure what that would have done for investment etc.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
But what about the UK as a whole, rather than higher-rate taxpayers?
It's a serious question... how could anyone have done worse than the Tories? Pretty much everything they've done has been a misstep, whether that's PPE procurement, handling of Brexit, Truss's 'fiscal event', and so on. It's hard to find a financial decision they've called right, except maybe Hunt's unavoidable U-turn on just about anything that defines Conservatism (or at least the recent iteration of it).
I'm sure you recall well those issues where there were mistakes (real and/or perceived). You may have missed a few like the vaccine rollout and support for Ukraine, for example.
Brown, however, put the top rate up to 50% just before Labour got booted out in a bit of a 'scorched earth' move.
Alas, the Tories can't manage that after a decade and a half.0 -
I think they found a pretty good balance between state interventionism and market liberalism.
You could go out, do well and make a fortune but the worst off also did better. I can't really think of anyone who lost out in those times in the UK. Iraqis and Afghans I guess lost out but in terms of domestic policy, it was goldilocks.0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Hard to say, but Labour's instincts have always been to tax first and ask questions later. Businesses would likely be worse off and not sure what that would have done for investment etc.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
But what about the UK as a whole, rather than higher-rate taxpayers?
It's a serious question... how could anyone have done worse than the Tories? Pretty much everything they've done has been a misstep, whether that's PPE procurement, handling of Brexit, Truss's 'fiscal event', and so on. It's hard to find a financial decision they've called right, except maybe Hunt's unavoidable U-turn on just about anything that defines Conservatism (or at least the recent iteration of it).
I'm sure you recall well those issues where there were mistakes (real and/or perceived). You may have missed a few like the vaccine rollout and support for Ukraine, for example.
And Tories' 'instincts' have always been to try to cut tax (at least for higher earners), but look where we are. To be fair to Hunt, at least he's being vaguely pragmatic.
And I don't know what makes you think that Starmer & co wouldn't have supported Ukraine or made good calls on vaccines - there is no evidence whatsoever either way.
It's interesting that you are at the stage of '"hard to say" - at one time, I might have shared your general sentiments about Tories' & Labour's 'instincts', but the Tories' past 12 years, and utter lack of competence, honesty and principle make me genuinely believe that virtually no-one could have done any worse, on any metric. Well, maybe Corbyn, but he was never given the chance to screw it up as monumentally as the Tories have.0 -
Until it wasn't and it fell like a house of cardsrick_chasey said:I think they found a pretty good balance between state interventionism and market liberalism.
You could go out, do well and make a fortune but the worst off also did better. I can't really think of anyone who lost out in those times in the UK. Iraqis and Afghans I guess lost out but in terms of domestic policy, it was goldilocks.0 -
Where's the thread police when you need them? Anyway well done on the win, Stevo.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The thread police cheer you up? Fair enough.rjsterry said:Where's the thread police when you need them? Anyway well done on the win, Stevo.
0 -
Ha.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
But gdp is now significantly higher now than it was in say 2005. Go figure.rick_chasey said:
Because they had this thing called growth, which means they didn't have to raise loads of taxes.Stevo_666 said:
To be fair to Blair, he was happy with a 40% top rate of income tax. Care to explain why that was so unacceptable because a Tory proposed restoring it?rick_chasey said:
Higher standard of living however, so who's the real mug?Stevo_666 said:
I think that's a significant factor in France's bloated state spending problem and from memory is something that Macron is trying to get under control - but struggling to do because they go on strike as soon as anyone tries to change anything. Quelle surprise...rick_chasey said:
That's mainly pensions isn't it?Stevo_666 said:
So does that mean every other country in the world apart from France is screwed? Because France pay the most in the world.as a percentage of GDP.pinno said:
So we don't pay as much tax as the French and we don't put as much into pubic spending.Stevo_666 said:
No wonder we're fcuked.
To be fair to Macron, he is trying to reduce public spending - why do you think that is? (Although without much success).
Can you explain the track record under Blair then please?Stevo_666 said:
Hard to say, but Labour's instincts have always been to tax first and ask questions later. Businesses would likely be worse off and not sure what that would have done for investment etc.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Clearly I can't prove it as there is no alternative reality where Labour was in power over that period, but I have a hunch that the likes of you and I would be worse off in that scenario.surrey_commuter said:
I think that Labour has won the spending argument and he Tories have stolen their clothes, with the death of the magic money tree this means higher taxes from either.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure. Do you think taxes would be higher or lower if Labour had been I'm power since 2010?surrey_commuter said:
look past the rosette, they may keep talking about cutting taxes but they keep putting them up. After 12 years when would you place more weight on their actions than their words?Stevo_666 said:
As said above, last week's measures not great but they can't ignore the global economic headwinds and there is only one party that will want to get it down again.surrey_commuter said:
after 12 years of being in Govt why do you think the Tory Party is low tax?Stevo_666 said:
That is not a good place to be and needs putting right - there is only one party that actual,y wants to do that. Also we are well below many European countries:rick_chasey said:I would have thought that finally, this government, with the highest taxation in the UK for 70 years, would disabuse you of the notion that taxes are left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
This is one area where France is a world leader. However, the supreme court has ruled that they won't be getting our €22m so they can FRO
It seems like only last week that they Tory Chancellor chose to increase taxation
Would you prefer to be French?
I don't think it would be worse under Labour other than some headline grabbing measures which would not mean much.
But what about the UK as a whole, rather than higher-rate taxpayers?
It's a serious question... how could anyone have done worse than the Tories? Pretty much everything they've done has been a misstep, whether that's PPE procurement, handling of Brexit, Truss's 'fiscal event', and so on. It's hard to find a financial decision they've called right, except maybe Hunt's unavoidable U-turn on just about anything that defines Conservatism (or at least the recent iteration of it).
I'm sure you recall well those issues where there were mistakes (real and/or perceived). You may have missed a few like the vaccine rollout and support for Ukraine, for example.
Brown, however, put the top rate up to 50% just before Labour got booted out in a bit of a 'scorched earth' move.
Alas, the Tories can't manage that after a decade and a half."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
