Short Travel 26ers becoming Obsolete?

Chunkers1980

I bet the marketing is in your subconscious somewhere. I think you'd need to be Armish for it not to be.

supersonic

I guess I'm lucky in having worked in the trade for long enough that I a) know a lot about kit and b) have a wide network of people I can talk to for impartial opinions on stuff.

So have I and I still think there is a massive marketing campaign to make 26 inch wheeled bikes seem inferior.

97th choice

With my cynical hat on, what does that say about the magazines that tout them (29ers) as the greatest must have thing ever?

stubs

97th choice wrote:

With my cynical hat on, what does that say about the magazines that tout them (29ers) as the greatest must have thing ever?

It says they care about the bottom line. If the advertisers who pay the bills wanted to shift Penny farthings thats what magazines would review.

mikeyj28

cyd190468 wrote:

I'm just looking forward to being able to buy all sorts of really cheap second hand 26ers of my mates when they all go 29er.

Watch out though as you'll be on such an inferior bike to all the people running 29ers haha!

lostboysaint

njee20 wrote:

Perhaps I phrased my post badly

Wasn't aimed at your post specifically, more a general comment that the usual 'argument' is that it's marketing bollocks etc. The fact is that they are vastly more popular than they have ever been, whilst I'm sure some are swayed by marketing I think that's over stated.

I've never asked advice on what to buy on these forums (asked people's opinion on which race bike and bought the one with fewest votes, as I'd basically decided anyway!), and very rarely read any 'proper' reviews, more likely to pay attention to peer reviews admittedly. I guess I'm lucky in having worked in the trade for long enough that I a) know a lot about kit and b) have a wide network of people I can talk to for impartial opinions on stuff.

In that case can you tell me where all these "vastly more popular" 29ers are? They weren't in the US or Canada, they very definitely aren't on my local trails or on my rides (only ever had a maximum of two!) so I assume that you mean that they are "vastly more popular" with the manufacturers or media rather than the buyer.

Of course people are swayed by marketing, if they weren't then the manufacturers and distributors wouldn't do it and you wouldn't have a trade to work in! Why do you think that certain brands are so well represented, even when they turn out average bikes, as opposed to others? Why do you think they sponsor riders? Why do you think they sponsor events?

njee20

On race courses all over the world, the places the bikes that we are discussing here (short travel FS) are designed for. Believe it or not... what you've (not) noticed on your local trails is not representative of the world. :roll:

In my regular group of 10, two of us ride 26" wheels, and one may be getting a 29er next year, not sure! 2 years ago there were two on 29ers.

pilch

Rushmore wrote:

I'm gunna get a 29er hardtail for next years xc race season.. But they turn like boats and really are not chuck able..

So all those guys on 26" wheels are gonna kick your ar5e in the singletrack?

Doesn't seem much point in wasting your money then?

stubs

How many short travel FS bikes are used for racing though. In my regular riding group I have the longest travel bike at 120mm there is another lad with a 120mm bike the rest are on 100mm FS apart from one weirdo on a 130mm HT. The large majority of bikes I see out when riding are short travel FS and HT bikes probably because we dont often go to Trail centres.

On the routes I mostly ride I would say the most common FS bike I see is a Giant Anthem X4 they are the Mondeo or BMW 3 of the biking world round here. Solid, reliable and good at what they do.

No one needs a 29er if it had never been invented would anyone be enjoying there riding any less. I dont dislike 29ers but I do dislike some knobber from California telling me what to buy and deciding that I cant have the choice to buy what I want.

njee20

No one needs a 29er if it had never been invented would anyone be enjoying there riding any less

And where does that end? Dropper posts? Tubeless tyres? Disc brakes? Suspension? Mountain bikes?

How many short travel FS bikes are used for racing though

That's not the point. Manufacturers are dropping their short travel 26" bikes and replacing them with 29ers. That's a fact. Trek Top Fuel, Spesh Epic and Giant Anthem Advanced are no longer available with 26" wheels. Scott Sparks are only available on the lower models.

That's not magazine reviews, that is what the manufacturers are making. Most trail riders don't change bikes annually, so things take longer to filter down. If your bunch of mates wanted to go and buy top end bikes of that ilk now they either have a far more limited choice, a longer travel bike, or a 29er.

Most racers do change bikes regularly, and 29ers are more prominent. Doesn't make them better, but that's not the discussion (here), but they are increasingly popular and I can't see Trek/Spesh/Giant reintroducing 26" wheeled short travel FS race bikes again.

Edit: let's toss the Cannondale Scalpel into the mix too, only 29er.

ddraver

stubs wrote:

No one needs a 29er if it had never been invented would anyone be enjoying there riding any less.

You could argue the same about gears, disk brakes, suspension, carbon fibre......

stubs

njee20 wrote:

If your bunch of mates wanted to go and buy top end bikes of that ilk now they either have a far more limited choice, a longer travel bike, or a 29er.

That is the point I am trying to make. Which is coming first the manufacturer deciding to cut choice and force us to buy 29ers or the buyer no longer buying 120mm or less FS 26ers. My cousin lives in New Mexico and he can no longer buy a decent quality 26er he has bought 29ers twice a HT and a FS but simply doesnt like them and has a $2,500 Niner in his basement being used as a spiders climbing frame.

His local bike shop has tried to get hold of a new 26er for him but the wholesalers refuse to ship them and his only choice is an expensive boutique brand which as a long time Trek and Giant fan pisses him off.

I lurk on the mtbr forums and there does seem to be a bit of a backlash against 29ers but thats possibly like Apple owners who get snippy now every scally on the bus has an Apple.

stubs

ddraver wrote:

stubs wrote:

No one needs a 29er if it had never been invented would anyone be enjoying there riding any less.

You could argue the same about gears, disk brakes, suspension, carbon fibre......

Yes very true and I realise that was a stupid thing to say but gears, disk brakes, suspension, carbon fibre are all genuine improvements that make riding more pleasurable for me. A 29 wheel its just a wheel I cant really see it as an improvement its just a development of an existing round object.

I would hate to be forced to buy a 29er because some tosspot yuppy decided that was what I was buying whether I liked it or not I am all in favour of 29ers but I am not in favour of 26ers disappearing for business reasons.

lostboysaint

njee20 wrote:

On race courses all over the world, the places the bikes that we are discussing here (short travel FS) are designed for. Believe it or not... what you've (not) noticed on your local trails is not representative of the world. :roll:

In my regular group of 10, two of us ride 26" wheels, and one may be getting a 29er next year, not sure! 2 years ago there were two on 29ers.

Brilliant. So most of the 29ers are subsidised by sponsors to riders who'll take what they're told is best. (Whether it's the manufacturer, the national distributor, the LBS "supported" rider etc.) The others on that start line will be buying them because of the marketing (that you say doesn't impact) of all of those riders.

Just as a matter of interest, what do you do in the trade?

pilch

lostboysaint wrote:

Brilliant. So most of the 29ers are subsidised by sponsors to riders who'll take what they're told is best. (Whether it's the manufacturer, the national distributor, the LBS "supported" rider etc.) The others on that start line will be buying them because of the marketing (that you say doesn't impact) of all of those riders.

National distributor/manufacturer riders, possibly... a small % though of the total

LBS riders doubtful... how many as a % are on fully supported rider deals? not that many, more governed by the brands the shop stocks...

As for the majority of riders on the startline, some will ride 26" and others will ride 29" of the 29er riders maybe some are just sheep! Baaaaaaaaaaaa! or perhaps they have tried one and found they liked it!! You can say the same for anything though

ddraver

I think you re overestimating njee's racing prowess there LBS. (or not, in which case I apologise). I think he's suggesting that all of his racing buddies/rivals have bought their bikes, i.e. they re keen amateurs, not WC racers

njee20

Yep, I don't know anyone who doesn't get a choice of bike (fully sponsored, or paid for), and yet most now choose 29ers.

If it makes you feel better you can say it's because they're told they're better, or they're sheep, but the reality is that they have made a decision, and that is to go to 29ers. I don't know a single person who has moaned that they really wanted a 26" wheeled bike but it wasn't available. They're obviously out there, like your friend with too much money who keeps buying bikes he doesn't like, but again the point is whether short travel 26" wheeled bikes are likely to die out, and I'll again say that at least at the top end yes I think they will, and I don't think that's lead by marketing or the brands, but by consumer demand (or rather lack of it).

supersonic

Would spesh let a rider ride a 26 inch wheeled bike in the worlds or olympics?

njee20

No, because they don't make one...?

All the brands who make multiple wheelsizes allow a choice. See Scott, who have one rider on each of 26"/29er/650B.

supersonic

Maybe I misread what you said previously. i thought you were inferring that riders get the choice of size regardless of what the manufacturer sells.

njee20

Nah, I was saying that at an amateur level riders get to choose what they want from their 'sponsor' shop. Ie I can have anything I want from Trek/Spesh/Scott/Santa Cruz.

29ers are popular in XC racing because people are choosing to buy them (perhaps subsidised), not because their sponsors are forcing them.

paul.skibum

I could be wrong as I am only going from memory but didnt the Luna girls team have people on a variety of bikes in most of the worlds - the world cup champ regularly rode a short travel 26 FS didn't she? Merida bike I think.

Personally I dont care what people ride. I dont see myself going 29er and I dont see huge numbers about on the trails in the valley - my mate rides a 29er Stumpy, the bike shop owner rides a tallboy and a couple of other regular riders have them too but most are on 140-150 AM 26ers. That said probably half the bikes the LBS had in were 29ers this summer and as I understand it they sold a lot of their stock of 29ers so I guess there are a fair few in this area, just dont see that many people when I ride!

97th choice

What was the previous "next big thing" I just need to check if I own one.

ddraver

97th choice wrote:

What was the previous "next big thing" I just need to check if I own one.

Tubeless probably....

ddraver

Good Call

benpinnick

Or reverse pull mechs?

njee20

Rapid rise mechs have been around for ages, they did a M953 RR rear mech. Shimano did push them with Dual Control levers, but yes they weren't as widely adopted as on the road! I liked the (M960/M965) ones I had I must say.

It will be interesting to see if those that no longer make 26er race bikes run into problems at particular WC events.

Well we've already established that the bike isn't all that significant, as evidenced by the mix of bikes on the podium of late, Spesh haven't had any riders on 26" wheels for a couple of years now, and still have a World Champion, multiple World Cup wins and an Olympic Gold, so it's obviously not doing them any massive damage!

stubs

benpinnick wrote:

Or reverse pull mechs?

I love Rapid Rise. Now that Shimano dont make them anymore I am slowly building a stock of 2nd hand RR mechs so that I can keep on changing gear the correct way for years to come.

Great Ayton

cyd190468 wrote:

Surely it would be unlikely for a manufacturer to force their sponsored riders onto a 29er unless they thought it would result in race wins. It will be interesting to see if those that no longer make 26er race bikes run into problems at particular WC events. If you're competing for the WC on a 29er because it's all you can get from your sponsor and you finish 10th behind nine 26ers (not likely but possible) it's not exactly great publicity. So they must be fairly confident that a 29er is at least, just as good as a 26er.

Not really its all about marketing. Bike teams will often not use what is the best because there paid to use something else. Just look at some people riding full sus on flat man made tracks or running hard tails on track that look more like old DH tracks. Its all about what there paid to ride. After all these guys are doing it for money. 29ers are nothing new and they have the same problems they always did. Its just now many manufacture have jumped on the band wagon so you hear all about them these days.

As for the OP short travel 26ers will be around for a long time. suspension 29ers are more at home for taller people who wish to ride relatively strait point to points and are not after a ultra light weight bike. 26ers are and will continue to be better for more average size people, people wishing to ride more complicated single track or people wish to do more aggressive riding. Also the fact a 26er will always be significantly lighter or stiffer then a 29er counterpart will make many people still opt for the 26er.

njee20

Bollocks to all of that. Have you read any of the thread?

Very few riders are told what to ride. Spesh riders have to ride 29ers, as that's all they make, but still always have the choice of hardtail or FS. Scott have the choice of hardtail or FS, 26", 650b of 29er. This stuff about 'riders being told what to ride' is crap. A manufacturer wants their rider to win, if their riders don't like the bike, or its not suitable that won't reflect well on the manufacturer.

The weight is a non issue too frankly, yes wheels and tyres are heavier than an equivalent 26" one, but there are brands innovating in 29ers as opposed to 26. Likewise the proliferation of lightweight frames - Trek Superfly SL etc. The weight penalties are very slight now, there are 18lb 29ers in the World Cup field.

Why on earth are 26" wheels more suitable for 'more complicated' singletrack?! What even is that FFS?!

You're clearly a bit of a tool, so I shalln't go on.