Short Travel 26ers becoming Obsolete?

njee20

No it wasn't, Kulhavy won on a 29er, Nino Schurter 2nd on 650B (he liked the 29er, but couldn't replicate his mental position on it), 3rd was Marco Fontana on a 29er.

I'm not saying they're universally better (I don't even ride one!), just that most race bikes are going to 29ers, and there's more to that than marketing or following other brands.

supersonic

Julie Bresset won the race on a 26er! but yeah, Kulhavy did win, pity Absolon had a prob.

mikeyj28

supersonic wrote:

Julie Bresset won the race on a 26er! but yeah, Kulhavy did win, pity Absolon had a prob.

Absalon was on a 26er yes? Yep Bresset did win on a 26er and was convincing with it too!

supersonic

njee20 wrote:

I'm not saying they're universally better (I don't even ride one!), just that most race bikes are going to 29ers, and there's more to that than marketing or following other brands.

I think it is mainly marketing. The riders usually have ride what the sponsors provide. I think it is great that someone won on a Boardman 26er! If 29ers were winning all the time then there would be a greater argument, but even with the big manufacturers switching, 26ers are still winning, and them taking away choice for riders with their brand is absolutely absurd. Choice is what matters to me, as the sizes have pros and cons that the rider has to decide on. But the big players are more interested in getting people to buy new very expensive big wheeled bikes by telling us 26ers can't do it, when they very plainly can. It stinks.

njee20

Who won on a Boardman? Annie last was riding one, but she didn't win. Julie Bresset rides a BH, with Suntour forks no less!

I think the point is that the bike is (still) a pretty small component in top level racing. Put a good rider on FS/hardtail 650b/26"/29" flats/risers and they'll still perform. No one's really gone on leaps and bounds solely because they changed bike. That said, Kulhavy was never successful on 26" wheels. I still wouldn't attribute that solely to the bike though.

apreading

There is another aspect here that should keep short travel 26ers going - kids...

My kids are now or have recently moved up from 24" wheeled bikes to small 26" wheeled bikes. No way would they be ready for a 29er, nor would they want the extra weight - I just dont think it would work for them at all.

So even if the larger frame sizes went 29er, I think smaller 26" frames will not ever die out - we have 24" wheeled bikes for kids not big enough for 26ers, so we will need 26" wheeled bikes for kids (and small people) not big enough for 29ers.

So I dont think they will ever die out completely.

I would guess that any really tight and twisty sections at trail centres that 29ers dont work well on will gradually be adapted so that they still work though.

njee20

I think there are 2 separate discussions here, and I think it's a price point one.

Will 26" wheeled bikes with short travel forks die out?: no, the entry level market alone will sustain them.
Will 26" wheeled high end short travel bikes die out?: quite probably, they're well on their way already, as said. For the bulk of the market no, but at the top end, I'd say yes, quite likely.

Hardtails probably won't, certainly not as fast, as there are so many more niche builders, but if support for components goes (ie if Fox and Rock Shox drop their 26" Float 32s/SIDs and Stan's drop the Crest/Podium/Alpine) then it becomes more likely, and I wouldn't rule that out. Tune are already introducing new lightweight XC wheels in 29er and 650B only.

supersonic

If they do go it will be a farce. But I've heard it all before with FS bikes for XC, was supposed to be the death bed of the HT. It wasn't. Tubeless the end of tubes. Nope. And I really hope it is the case again and we end up with good choice across the spectrum.

njee20

I reckon it will depend, I can honestly see RS and Fox stopping their top end 26" forks (certainly before Stan's give up on rims).

ddraver

I still think there is some potential for high (highest?) end models to have different wheel sizes based on the size of the frame....e.g Small has 26, M has 650b and Large has 29

The Rookie

That's just stupid, the wheel size that will work best relates tpo usage and not the frame size!

ddraver

yes, but for the same usage.....

e.g. XC race...

passout

ddraver wrote:

I still think there is some potential for high (highest?) end models to have different wheel sizes based on the size of the frame....e.g Small has 26, M has 650b and Large has 29

Salsa do this with some their bikes - the two smallest sizes have 26 inch wheels & the others are 29ers (well, 700). See: http://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya
They write, 'We designed this bike for a very wide size range of people, thus our two smallest sizes use 26” wheels to provide improved fit, better standover clearance, and to eliminate toe overlap. The larger sizes (54cm and up) use 700c wheels.'

I agree that for lots of bikes, certainly cross & XC, that different wheel sizes for different frame sizes makes sense.

benpinnick

The Beginner wrote:

That's just stupid, the wheel size that will work best relates tpo usage and not the frame size!

Sort of... More likely its a case of they'd like to go with the bigger wheel, but the size of frame would compromise the geometry too much with a big wheel so its just not possible.

The Rookie

Maybe, but the 'strengths' of the different wheels are a lot more to do with intended usage than the size of the rider, so long distance XC will still be 29er territory whether you are 5'2" or 6'4" ( I ride with a women who's 5'2" and rides a 29er), while even the big (riders) DHers are still on 26er.....

Carl170

ddraver wrote:

I still think there is some potential for high (highest?) end models to have different wheel sizes based on the size of the frame....e.g Small has 26, M has 650b and Large has 29

That does kind of make sense. Big wheels on a small frame look a bit odd!

Surely the death knell will be when all the lower manufacturers start making them and you can buy them in ASDA for Forty quid! As the technology usually trickles down (eg suspension forks and disc brakes), this may well happen at some point.

Cheers

Carl

mikeyj28

When you can buy them in ASDA/Tesco etc won't have any bearing on 26ers or 650b being in use for higher specced bikes.

njee20

I ride with a women who's 5'2" and rides a 29er

Yes, but it's dependant on the person. As I said on the previous page the reason Nino Schurter rides a 650B Scale is because he couldn't get the front end low enough on a 29er, and he's about 5'7". I've got a couple of friends who run -17 degree stems slammed on a 29er, there's nothing you can do about that, and for many smaller riders shoehorning 29er wheels into a small frame will not be desirable. Likewise longer travel bikes.

That said, I think you should have the choice, I don't think 'size specific' wheels are a good idea, as some riders will want to shoehorn 29er wheels into a 15" frame!

mrmonkfinger

njee20 wrote:

I reckon it will depend, I can honestly see RS and Fox stopping their top end 26" forks (certainly before Stan's give up on rims).

So can I. And this will have nothing to do with what's the most appropriate technology. Fox/RS will simply drop whatever isn't selling - like any business that wants to survive and profit.

I guess the best recent example is RS dropping 20mm axles for XC/AM forks - where we have the slightly farcical situation of Fox's 15mm QR being the "XC/AM" choice because its smaller and obviously XC/AM guys don't want the same axles as those big heavy DH clowns.


Marketing, and market forces.

That means us punters and whatever we can be convinced to buy.

apreading

mrmonkfinger wrote:

njee20 wrote:

I reckon it will depend, I can honestly see RS and Fox stopping their top end 26" forks (certainly before Stan's give up on rims).

So can I. And this will have nothing to do with what's the most appropriate technology. Fox/RS will simply drop whatever isn't selling - like any business that wants to survive and profit.

I guess the best recent example is RS dropping 20mm axles for XC/AM forks - where we have the slightly farcical situation of Fox's 15mm QR being the "XC/AM" choice because its smaller and obviously XC/AM guys don't want the same axles as those big heavy DH clowns.


Marketing, and market forces.

That means us punters and whatever we can be convinced to buy.

I cant see them dropping everything from the top end though - they will want to sell to people who already have 26" for example and need a new fork. They will also need to carry spares and parts for the forks out there, so may as well sell some new too.

They almost certainly will (and probably soon) 'rationalise the range' though. This will mean less choice but still high end options. Possibly they will drop the SID but keep the REBA, drop the RECON but keep the TORA or something like that? And I suspect that this new, smaller range will sell for some years to come.

Rockshox dropping the manufacture of 26" forks will not force the bike mfrs to move away from 26" because Rockshox will keep making the forks as long as the mfrs want to buy them. You are suggesting that market forces will see a supplier refusing to supply their customers (the bike mfrs) with something that they want to buy in large volume - that doesnt make sense at all, if you think about it.

The Rookie

Besides all that needs to be different between a 26er and say a 650b fork is the length of the upper stanchions and the length of the lower casting, everything sles is the same....the fork manufacturers already supply the OEM's with custome steerer lengths and in some cases custom forks (like spesh's valving and the manufacturer who has 'rebas' with recon internals.)

njee20

Are people really that swayed by marketing? It seems to be the stock answer "x component isn't any better, it's just the manufacturer saying it is" blah blah blah.

I've never bought a product on the back of a review, or any manufacturers blurb, or because someone in a shop told me it was good. I use my own informed opinion to buy things. A friend has ridden 29ers since 2004, and extolled their virtues all along. For me the drawbacks have outweighed the benefits until very recently, to the point where I'd now consider them as there's a good choice of forks/wheels/tyres/frames. I'm not saying I'd definitely get a 29er, as I'm not 100% sure, but I doubt I'd buy another 26" wheeled race bike now.

The Rookie

+1, I read reviews though and take on board what they say, but it's only a part of my decision making process and the weight given to the reviews very much depends on who the reviewer is etc.

Northwind

benpinnick wrote:

Sort of... More likely its a case of they'd like to go with the bigger wheel, but the size of frame would compromise the geometry too much with a big wheel so its just not possible.

Aye, exactly. Nobody says you can't build a small 29er, but some people aren't happy with the small 29ers they could build.

Take Cotic frinstance- they've always catered to midgets, the Soul goes down to extra-small, but there's no small Solaris nor any plans to make it- the packaging just makes it impractical to make the particular bike he wants to make. There's a limit to how low the bars can be, how short the chainstays can be (with knockon impacts on seattube shape and position, and suspension packaging)

supersonic

One problem in making the very small sizes is toe overlap - if the rider needs a very short top tube, then without kicking the head angle out then problems can occur.

ddraver

Well...I suppose I do buy things off the back of reviews. If I'm looking for a new componant or bit of clothing I ll google search for reviews (both magazine and personal) to get an idea of what people have said, what some of the good points and bad points are and whether or not it is suited to what i want to use it for.

I would love to be able to try everything but usually it is simply not possible without buying them first, and unfortunately, I need to get things right first time...

When it comes to new bike time (genuine new bike time), I will try out 29ers and 650b bikes (being a short arse I reckon 650b may work well for me).

Northwind

supersonic wrote:

One problem in making the very small sizes is toe overlap - if the rider needs a very short top tube, then without kicking the head angle out then problems can occur.

Aye... My cross bike overlaps like a ******* even with little tyres. Tolerable for a crosser but it'd be a big dose of crash on a proper bike.

mrmonkfinger

njee20 wrote:

Are people really that swayed by marketing?

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps I phrased my post badly. People will ultimately be a bit swayed by marketing sure, but marketing will also be swayed by what people are buying. Maybe the manufacturers just won't be able to sell the volume of 26" bikes because the bike buying public just don't want them. Who knows. We don't have a situation with a clear cut winner.

ddraver wrote:

I will try out 29ers and 650b bikes (being a short ars* I reckon 650b may work well for me)

if you think 650b is better than 29, just wait till you see what crazy new technology I have hiding round this last corner - I think you're going to like it...

ddraver

I think you misunderstood monk (possibly for comic effect). wWen it comes (new bike time is a depressingly long way off!), I will be trying all 3 sizes to find what is best for me.

e.g. I used to lust after the Trek Fuel EX (before they upped the travel. I like riding HT's as I like trails being a challenge, but occasionally they can beat me up over a long ride so I'm after a short travel (approx 100-120mm) FS bike. I could go down the Canyon route but also maybe a 650b Anthem X would be a good alternative? Dunno until you try...

njee20

Perhaps I phrased my post badly

Wasn't aimed at your post specifically, more a general comment that the usual 'argument' is that it's marketing bollocks etc. The fact is that they are vastly more popular than they have ever been, whilst I'm sure some are swayed by marketing I think that's over stated.

I've never asked advice on what to buy on these forums (asked people's opinion on which race bike and bought the one with fewest votes, as I'd basically decided anyway!), and very rarely read any 'proper' reviews, more likely to pay attention to peer reviews admittedly. I guess I'm lucky in having worked in the trade for long enough that I a) know a lot about kit and b) have a wide network of people I can talk to for impartial opinions on stuff.