Drugs in other sports and the media.

The_Boy

RichN95 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

In MMA, Jon Jones failed a 2nd drugs test on his return from his 1st ban...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... 14-cormier

From what I've seen of MMA I surprised anyone would consider doing it clean.

Or as MMA commentator Joe Rogan (I think) once quipped, you'd have to dope just to train with those guys.

The_Boy

Dupe

rick_chasey

Fairly sure being off your t!ts is a prerequisite to wanting to do basically bareknuckle fighting in a ring with no escape.

dinyull

I don't even know where this one sits on whether or not it's considered "doping", but knowing how criticised blood spinning was in football....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... rocedures/

dinyull

Rick Chasey wrote:

Fairly sure being off your t!ts is a prerequisite to wanting to do basically bareknuckle fighting in a ring with no escape.

Haha. I went to a pretty dodgy house party a few years back. A big-ish name in underground bare-knuckle fighting was there. Had a chat asking how he does it and he replied saying a few pints and a couple of lines usually help haha.

bobmcstuff

Dinyull wrote:

I don't even know where this one sits on whether or not it's considered "doping", but knowing how criticised blood spinning was in football....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... rocedures/

So they take the blood out, manipulate it, then put it back in?

Yeah sounds legit.

No_Ta_Doctor

bobmcstuff wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

I don't even know where this one sits on whether or not it's considered "doping", but knowing how criticised blood spinning was in football....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... rocedures/

So they take the blood out, manipulate it, then put it back in?

Yeah sounds legit.

They take about 60ml, not a blood bag full, and it's put back in pretty quickly, not after the body has had time to regenerate blood cells and just before a major event. It's ridiculous to consider this in any way related to blood doping.

Mad_Malx

The science looks like total bobbins but surely the point is that it is an illegal blood manipulation designed to give advantage.
There is a risk of harm (particularly if diy), which is one of the central pillars of anti doping rules.

rick_chasey

So if 57% of athletes anonymously admit to doping, I refuse to believe the current state of cycling is all that clean.

r0bh

Full details here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 017-0765-4

Personally I'm unconvinced by the study methodology

StillGoing

Rick Chasey wrote:

So if 57% of athletes anonymously admit to doping, I refuse to believe the current state of cycling is all that clean.

I don't think it is anywhere near the level of previous decades and lets not forget, that other sports have been under the radar. The Spanish destroying the blood samples seized from ferrari (?) were rumoured to contain some from the Spanish national football team that won the WC. Athletics, Tennis, football and rugby RU and RL are no doubt bang at it, but just haven't had the headlines of pro cycling.

rick_chasey

philthy3 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So if 57% of athletes anonymously admit to doping, I refuse to believe the current state of cycling is all that clean.

I don't think it is anywhere near the level of previous decades and lets not forget, that other sports have been under the radar. The Spanish destroying the blood samples seized from ferrari (?) were rumoured to contain some from the Spanish national football team that won the WC. Athletics, Tennis, football and rugby RU and RL are no doubt bang at it, but just haven't had the headlines of pro cycling.

Not but there really aren't many positives at the moment in cycling.

StillGoing

Rick Chasey wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So if 57% of athletes anonymously admit to doping, I refuse to believe the current state of cycling is all that clean.

I don't think it is anywhere near the level of previous decades and lets not forget, that other sports have been under the radar. The Spanish destroying the blood samples seized from ferrari (?) were rumoured to contain some from the Spanish national football team that won the WC. Athletics, Tennis, football and rugby RU and RL are no doubt bang at it, but just haven't had the headlines of pro cycling.

Not but there really aren't many positives at the moment in cycling.

Really? Other than a handful being caught and entertaining races and success stories in both mens and women's cycling, I don't think it's been bad at all. Sure Wiggins' grey area has raised questions about him and those closest to him.

rick_chasey

No i mean positive tests.

r0bh

Rick Chasey wrote:

Not but there really aren't many positives at the moment in cycling.

But is that because people aren't doping, or people are doping but aren't getting caught? An unanswerable question.

dinyull

The testers are always going to be behind. That's the game.

What if more nations were like the french in criminal convictions for doping?

rick_chasey

r0bh wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Not but there really aren't many positives at the moment in cycling.

But is that because people aren't doping, or people are doping but aren't getting caught? An unanswerable question.

See my logic above.

Christ!

larkim

I must admit I find the study incredibly hard to believe, and it seems that they have faith in the methodology (interesting read if you have the time - https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 017-0765-4 ) to generate completely anonymous responses which give the respondent confidence to answer honestly.

Richmond Racer 2

Dinyull wrote:

The testers are always going to be behind. That's the game.

What if more nations were like the french in criminal convictions for doping?

And French athletes still get popped.

Let me introduce you to Lloyd Mondory, Steve Hoaunard &, Sylvain Georges, just from the last few years.

dinyull

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

The testers are always going to be behind. That's the game.

What if more nations were like the french in criminal convictions for doping?

And French athletes still get popped.

Fair do's.

I know the culture is different, but you don't see many top level french athlete's in athletics. Add in relatively poor performances in cycling for a number of years now I added it up to maybe being cleaner with the fear of jail.

Richmond Racer 2

Dinyull wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

The testers are always going to be behind. That's the game.

What if more nations were like the french in criminal convictions for doping?

And French athletes still get popped.

Fair do's.

I know the culture is different, but you don't see many top level french athlete's in athletics. Add in relatively poor performances in cycling for a number of years now I added it up to maybe being cleaner with the fear of jail.

When I say athletes, I mean across sports - not just T&F.

See my revised post above for examples of cyclists.

Richmond Racer 2

Dinyull, as for jail....

this French law simply doesnt get used to send athletes to jail for failing drugs tests.

If someone were to get done for drugs trafficking...but for testing pozzie for EPO etc? Nah. Doesnt happen.

rick_chasey

Dinyull wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

The testers are always going to be behind. That's the game.

What if more nations were like the french in criminal convictions for doping?

And French athletes still get popped.

Fair do's.

I know the culture is different, but you don't see many top level french athlete's in athletics. Add in relatively poor performances in cycling for a number of years now I added it up to maybe being cleaner with the fear of jail.

Did alright in London.

dinyull

Maybe just my wrong perception.

Pross

Interesting item on the One Show at the moment about the use and abuse of pain killers in rugby and players addiction continuing after they stop playing.

TheBigBean

Rick Chasey wrote:

So if 57% of athletes anonymously admit to doping, I refuse to believe the current state of cycling is all that clean.

Why would it be? When people bang on about cleanliness in cycling it is more based on hope than anything else.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So if 57% of athletes anonymously admit to doping, I refuse to believe the current state of cycling is all that clean.

Why would it be? When people bang on about cleanliness in cycling it is more based on hope than anything else.

I used to always have a good idea what they were on.

Now I don't.

shinyhelmut

New drug test may be ready in time for Tokyo.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/breakthrough-drugs-test-for-tokyo-2020-xj0s03wx9

Tests for markers of drug use rather than remaining metabolites of the actual drugs, as such can detect drug use weeks after the fact. Would be a game changer if it comes to pass...

Vino'sGhost

TheBigBean wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So if 57% of athletes anonymously admit to doping, I refuse to believe the current state of cycling is all that clean.

Why would it be? When people bang on about cleanliness in cycling it is more based on hope than anything else.

Hope and the suspension of disbelief

Vino'sGhost

ShinyHelmut wrote:

New drug test may be ready in time for Tokyo.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/breakthrough-drugs-test-for-tokyo-2020-xj0s03wx9

Tests for markers of drug use rather than remaining metabolites of the actual drugs, as such can detect drug use weeks after the fact. Would be a game changer if it comes to pass...

That's a test that will make every countries sports federations feel awkward. I bet it doesn't get used