Drugs in other sports and the media.

above_the_cows

The outcry over TUEs reminds me a little of the straightedge people I've been unfortunate enough to come across in my life.

RichN95.

So these hackers have now released some more documents. And to the excitement of many they include Froome and Wiggins.

Froome's show he has had two TUEs, exactly corresponding to the ones he has mentioned when asked in interviews

Wiggins shows some asthma medication before it got unbanned.

awavey

RichN95 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

So you honestly don't think anyone has ever abused the TUE system?

When have I said that? I just don't think it is quite the problem that some make it out to be.There's a lot of pitchfork waving by people who haven't really thought things through. For example...

Dinyull wrote:

No. But that same player would have a decent idea that the striker he plays with who's been shat for the past 12 months has improved leaps and bounds since getting that TUE.

That doesn't actually happen. The drugs people get TUEs for aren't big performance enhancers. No-one is getting a TUE for EPO or anabolic steroids.

doesnt that depend on how you define performance enhancers though, if for instance ADHD meds allow people to concentrate and be more focused,whether thats more concentrated or focussed than people without the condition Ive not seen stated,but I do know people without ADHD who used to take them at college to help them study,

but fundamentally there are some sports, and gymastics IME would be one of these, where being able to focus and concentrate and clear your mind of unnecessary distracting thoughts, are actually just as important as physical prowess and sheer watts power you can produce,so how are they not impacting the overall performance and competive marginal gain edge ?

RichN95.

awavey wrote:

doesnt that depend on how you define performance enhancers though, if for instance ADHD meds allow people to concentrate and be more focused,whether thats more concentrated or focussed than people without the condition Ive not seen stated,but I do know people without ADHD who used to take them at college to help them study,

but fundamentally there are some sports, and gymastics IME would be one of these, where being able to focus and concentrate and clear your mind of unnecessary distracting thoughts, are actually just as important as physical prowess and sheer watts power you can produce,so how are they not impacting the overall performance and competive marginal gain edge ?

Possibly. Neither us have experience of high level gymnastics or taking ADHD medicine, so we don't really know.

But I do know that 10% of US school children are prescribed ADHD meds so I'm more inclined to think that she was a hyperactive child medicated by the US pill culture rather than specific sports enhancement.

ocdupalais

I regularly scored highly in PE by doing a forward roll and a "present" in my pants and vest... It's scary to think where I could be now if I'd had concentration-enhancing drugs...

RichN95.

del

RichN95.

del

RoadPainter

While I'm sure the hackers are keen to get some anti-American sentiment going in some countries, I expect the main audience for this is back home. These TUEs can be positioned in Russian media as American sports stars taking drugs and WADA not doing anything - which plays into the "woe is Russia, this is just the US trying to do us over" argument supporting their doping regimes & sample swapping in Sochi.
To some, life is about power and trying to get the Cold War going again. Sad tvats.

RoadPainter

RichN95 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

We all know the craic with sport, some are always going to push the boundaries. Some TUE's are important to allow athlete's deal with very real problems, then their are the likes of Sharapova and half of Russia with their "heart problem's".

The drug the were taking wasn't banned (until the beginning of 2016). It wasn't a TUE issue.

But the point stands, there are athletes who genuinely need treatments for real problems and the likes of Sharapova who appear to be playing the system for an advantage.

The Sharapova case is imo beautiful. She was taking it for ages but didn't disclose it on test paperwork when she should have done. She would have got away with getting pinged (glow time was unknown so early 2016 positives could argue they took it in Dec) but decided to PR the story to protect her brand and in doing that admitted taking it in Jan. Unlucky, Mrs PR!

Richmond Racer 2

OCDuPalais wrote:

I regularly scored highly in PE by doing a forward roll and a "present" in my pants and vest... It's scary to think where I could be now if I'd had concentration-enhancing drugs...

You had a present in your pants and vest? :shock: My oh my. Advanced child.


In other news, this Russki revenge shizz is the most childish thing to have happened since Childe McChild of Childeville kicked his schoolmate when teacher wasn't looking. Pathetic.

LanterneRouge010

The TUE regime definitely needs a reassessment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t18YYy9ITCU

It does certainly seem unfair that athletes can take banned substances (legally) whilst in competition. There is no way of knowing whether the substances returns the sick athlete to an equilibirum level, or gives them an additional advantage over healthy athletes. If you're sick out of competition and need medicine to recover then thats when you should be allowed a TUE.

LanterneRouge010

The TUE regime definitely needs a reassessment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t18YYy9ITCU

It does certainly seem unfair that athletes can take banned substances (legally) whilst in competition. There is no way of knowing whether the substances returns the sick athlete to an equilibirum level, or gives them an additional advantage over healthy athletes. If you're sick out of competition and need medicine to recover then thats when you should be allowed a TUE.

Richmond Racer 2

Meh. This adds up to one non-event

Now, onto important stuff: the mighty Eneco starts on Monday

RichN95.

LanterneRouge010 wrote:

T There is no way of knowing whether the substances returns the sick athlete to an equilibirum level, or gives them an additional advantage over healthy athletes.

Yes there is. There are loads of studies done on these substances. How do you think WADA decide what goes on the list and what doesn't.

LanterneRouge010 wrote:

If you're sick out of competition and need medicine to recover then thats when you should be allowed a TUE.

Plenty of TUEs are for conditions which can't be cured, just managed. Dowsett's haemophilia, Contador's epilepsy and Novo Nordisk's diabates may be examples. The Paralympics is the best place to start your TUE clean up.

Also, banning TUEs will merely result in athletes not resting as you expect, but competing sick, risking further damage. Cyclists often carry on which broken bones. Basso wanted to carry on with cancer. They'll ride through a chest infection if need be. But isn't it better they just get it fixed?

Of course thinking things through is detrimental to You Tube polemics so I can understand why you have avoided it.

topper_harley

RichN95 wrote:

So these hackers have now released some more documents. And to the excitement of many they include Froome and Wiggins.

Froome's show he has had two TUEs, exactly corresponding to the ones he has mentioned when asked in interviews

Wiggins shows some asthma medication before it got unbanned.

the bunch with the tinfoil hats on really don't know what to make of the Froome news..its all rather funny, unless you're Chris Froome or any other athlete who has had the personal data stolen

RichN95.

Topper harley wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

So these hackers have now released some more documents. And to the excitement of many they include Froome and Wiggins.

Froome's show he has had two TUEs, exactly corresponding to the ones he has mentioned when asked in interviews

Wiggins shows some asthma medication before it got unbanned.

the bunch with the tinfoil hats on really don't know what to make of the Froome news..its all rather funny, unless you're Chris Froome or any other athlete who has had the personal data stolen

Judging by his brief statement Froome seems quite pleased because it only confirms what he's said publicly himself.

r0bh

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... -use-drugs

"The respected sports scientist Ross Tucker, for instance, believes..."

hanshotfirst

r0bh wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/14/wada-hacking-abuse-debate-theraputic-use-drugs

"The respected sports scientist Ross Tucker, for instance, believes..."

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahhahahahahaaaahhaha!!

yorkshireraw

RoadPainter wrote:

While I'm sure the hackers are keen to get some anti-American sentiment going in some countries, I expect the main audience for this is back home. These TUEs can be positioned in Russian media as American sports stars taking drugs and WADA not doing anything - which plays into the "woe is Russia, this is just the US trying to do us over" argument supporting their doping regimes & sample swapping in Sochi.
To some, life is about power and trying to get the Cold War going again. Sad tvats.

Agreed - this seems very much a Russian political / toys out the pram move. They could have at least been a bit more subtle about it, but that's not really their style.

kingstongraham

What sort of a name is Fancy Bear?

yorkshireraw

Its one of those that Putin has that you can ride.

Allez Mark

Amazing how many athletes need prednisone, prednisolone, methylprednisone, hydromorphone, oxycodone, riamcinolone or formoterol at sometime in their careers. I have never taken any of these. I wonder how many people on this forum have ever been prescribed them.

fenix

Athletes bodies have an awful lot more stress put on them than the average forumer though.

prawny

And I'd bet their doctors are more proactive.

I've not seen mine for about 5 years.

pinno

OCDuPalais wrote:

I regularly scored highly in PE by doing a forward roll and a "present" in my pants and vest... It's scary to think where I could be now if I'd had concentration-enhancing drugs...

Was that before or after you defected to the West?

IMHO, the image of your hairy ass in 'pants and vest' is scary enough.

pinno

Allez Mark wrote:

Amazing how many athletes need prednisone, prednisolone, methylprednisone, hydromorphone, oxycodone, riamcinolone or formoterol at sometime in their careers. I have never taken any of these. I wonder how many people on this forum have ever been prescribed them.

Yes me - Prednisolone and methylprednisolone. I wouldn't have called it a career move though.

Richmond Racer 2

prawny wrote:

And I'd bet their doctors are more proactive.

I've not seen mine for about 5 years.

Time for an eye test?

pinno

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

prawny wrote:

And I'd bet their doctors are more proactive.

I've not seen mine for about 5 years.

Time for an eye test?

Boom boom.

above_the_cows

OCDuPalais wrote:

I regularly scored highly in PE by doing a forward roll and a "present" in my pants and vest... It's scary to think where I could be now if I'd had concentration-enhancing drugs...

I did a mean teddy roll myself.

And no I am not Fancy Bear.*



*The Muppet possibilties have my fingers twitching...

above_the_cows

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

I regularly scored highly in PE by doing a forward roll and a "present" in my pants and vest... It's scary to think where I could be now if I'd had concentration-enhancing drugs...

You had a present in your pants and vest? :shock: My oh my. Advanced child.

I was thinking a 'present' in this instance was a poo. I am about as mature as Fancy Bear and his Dope War of revenge against the Evil Empire.