US Presidential election
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Rick Chasey wrote:FPTP is a joke.
Aye, true dat."That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0 -
Hahaha
"That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0 -
If you want to understand a bit more about the electoral college and how Obama won last night, Jeremy Vine explains here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20233725"That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0
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Don't get too excited folks the looney republicans will have a serious disabling effect in Congress on Obama's attempts to try and get their economy back on it's feet which is bad for us as well, it's a form of suicide bombing.
However the other form of bombing (Bush Style) is far less likely to happen now.
So the world should become a safer place than it would have been had Romney and the other gun happy freaks made it to the White House.
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After two years of campagning, billions of dollars spent they're exactly where they were before the election. Glad Obama won. 8)Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Happy with the result on the basis that the one least likely to go on a bombing spree got in. The downside is the inflation stoker got in, so best hope the US recovery doesn't gain any serious traction or we could be in some serious crap over here.Mangeur0
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Rick Chasey wrote:FPTP is a joke.
Apart from every other system all of which are worse as they put power into the hands of lunatic minority parties.
You just have to look at Israel and Greece to see how well others work out.0 -
tiredofwhiners wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:FPTP is a joke.
Apart from every other system all of which are worse as they put power into the hands of lunatic minority parties.
Like the Liberal Democrats? 8)"That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0 -
MaxwellBygraves wrote:tiredofwhiners wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:FPTP is a joke.
Apart from every other system all of which are worse as they put power into the hands of lunatic minority parties.
Like the Liberal Democrats? 8)
You think they've been able to exert any power?!0 -
tiredofwhiners wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:FPTP is a joke.
Apart from every other system all of which are worse as they put power into the hands of lunatic minority parties.
You just have to look at Israel and Greece to see how well others work out.
Here's a list of countries which use PR. You're not going to tell us that none of them work out are you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportion ... esentation0 -
http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affai ... bullshit-m
You HAVE to watch this - how Fox news broke the story that Obama had won! Oh man the denial is just hilarious!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
... hopefully, within the context of a second and final term, a political leader can burn bridges... take the gloves off... and actually get things done (he no longer has to play safe in hopes for re-election even though his party might still object... and it will be harder for Republicans to hide behind stonewalling (House Leader Boner (yeah, I know that's not how ya spell it but he's from my state of OHIO and a shame to all sentient beings everywhere) now says "Forget how the Republican party has held up progress for the past 4 years cuz we alls gonna work together now for a brighter tomorrow"... which translates into, "Dammit!!!! We still haven't figured out that Old Fat White Guys are no longer the leading demograhic in this country!!!").
Seriously, at least in this country, the Republican strategy was to offer an alternative to virtually anything put forth by this administration... that is not working together...that is fudging the country for the sake of political capital (and I do mean CAPITAL).
We have to find some way to move beyond a simple this or that mentality!!!! Treatment of some diseases that a decade ago were deadly involve a little of this that and the other!!! It can be done but only if you actually believe (now I'm starting to make my own self sick).0 -
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johnfinch wrote:tiredofwhiners wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:FPTP is a joke.
Apart from every other system all of which are worse as they put power into the hands of lunatic minority parties.
You just have to look at Israel and Greece to see how well others work out.
Here's a list of countries which use PR. You're not going to tell us that none of them work out are you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportion ... esentation
Not at all - I just pointed out that fringe parties end up holding power rather than the elected majority. There are some good countries in there, but a lot are 'less than stable' and not conducive to a democratic system where the majority decide and the minorities have to bite their lips.0 -
OK, it's just that when you say "every other system", you sounded to me like you were writing off PR as a whole.0
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"That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0
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johnfinch wrote:OK, it's just that when you say "every other system", you sounded to me like you were writing off PR as a whole.
There is no better system (in my opinion) than FPTP as at least lots of votes gets you influence and power and you can achieve things. PR does not get you this - its gets you a system where 'safe' seats or the majority are powerless and the balance is held by a disproportionate and undemocratic group. In Israel its the extreme right Zionists, in Greece its fringe communists and yes, in the UK, its the Lib Dems who cannot make any decision if anyone at any time gets a hangnail. PR gets you indecision and avoidance of making any hard decisions. You get stalemates and standoffs,
So to that extent that the only worse options are dictatorship of various styles, there isn't a worse option than PR if you have problems to solve and you don't want to be derailed by a minority fringe. You just have to look at Greece to understand how bad PR can be and how even complete basket case parties end up derailing the majority of voters.0 -
MaxwellBygraves wrote:
The posting by "Kelsey", WHAT!!!!!!!Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
tiredofwhiners wrote:johnfinch wrote:OK, it's just that when you say "every other system", you sounded to me like you were writing off PR as a whole.
There is no better system (in my opinion) than FPTP as at least lots of votes gets you influence and power and you can achieve things. PR does not get you this - its gets you a system where 'safe' seats or the majority are powerless and the balance is held by a disproportionate and undemocratic group. In Israel its the extreme right Zionists, in Greece its fringe communists and yes, in the UK, its the Lib Dems who cannot make any decision if anyone at any time gets a hangnail. PR gets you indecision and avoidance of making any hard decisions. You get stalemates and standoffs,
So to that extent that the only worse options are dictatorship of various styles, there isn't a worse option than PR if you have problems to solve and you don't want to be derailed by a minority fringe. You just have to look at Greece to understand how bad PR can be and how even complete basket case parties end up derailing the majority of voters.
Conversely you only have to look at Germany to see how it elects Strong Governements that can create the most dominant economy in Europe and one of the biggest in the world...
Frankly I can't remember ever getting any visits from election campaigners becasue I ve always lived in Super safe Lib Dem (as it happens) seats..We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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Frank the tank wrote:MaxwellBygraves wrote:
The posting by "Kelsey", WHAT!!!!!!!
Is anyone going to tell Kirsten Nell that Australia doesn't actually have a president???
One of the best things this week has been watching Fox News struggling to report the loss for their man. They had a guy on who was flogging a book about election fraud and of course all examples he gave were of Democratic fraud. Maybe he has never heard the words 'Bush' and 'great state of Florida'... Made me
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tiredofwhiners wrote:johnfinch wrote:OK, it's just that when you say "every other system", you sounded to me like you were writing off PR as a whole.
There is no better system (in my opinion) than FPTP as at least lots of votes gets you influence and power and you can achieve things. PR does not get you this - its gets you a system where 'safe' seats or the majority are powerless and the balance is held by a disproportionate and undemocratic group. In Israel its the extreme right Zionists, in Greece its fringe communists and yes, in the UK, its the Lib Dems who cannot make any decision if anyone at any time gets a hangnail. PR gets you indecision and avoidance of making any hard decisions. You get stalemates and standoffs,
So to that extent that the only worse options are dictatorship of various styles, there isn't a worse option than PR if you have problems to solve and you don't want to be derailed by a minority fringe. You just have to look at Greece to understand how bad PR can be and how even complete basket case parties end up derailing the majority of voters.
I've lived in countries where coalition government is the norm and seeing majority governments being de-railed by a minority fringe was never a problem there. The smaller parties ended up compromising - they had a few policies adopted by the major left/right party in the coalition but in exchange they had to support other policies which they would usually oppose.
The UK is, politically-speaking, a very different beast to Greece or Israel. Even in elections in which we do have PR (EU, London), a few of the smaller parties tend to get 1 or 2 MPs each.
I would also say that coalition government could prevent extremes. For example, the Lib Dems and SNP (rightly) argued that the lending markets needed tighter regulation during the Blair/Brown years. If those 2 parties had been in a coalition government with Labour, we might not have such a massive personal debt crisis in this country now.0 -
Small parties who exert too much levearge over bigger parties in PR usually do extremely badly in the following elections.0
