Alex Dowsett - stupid comments

giant_man

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19910165

andyp

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"

LeicesterLad

Not just Dowsett, Cummings aswell, and Yates and Brailsford both acting like idiots. Sky having a bad day.

andyp

Cummings doesn't ride for Sky anymore.

Remind me who manages BMC again?

Richmond Racer

oh FFS, Dowsett...

(actually I thought Sky had told all their riders to make no comments - presumably if they've not renewed his contract as seems to be the case, he's doing what he wants)

And Cummings too...with his erstwhile Hincapie being one of the witnesses...

:roll: :evil:

Richmond Racer

andyp wrote:

Cummings doesn't ride for Sky anymore.

Remind me who manages BMC again?

Ahhh...Jim Ochowicz...dont look for anything sensible to come out of BMC...

LeicesterLad

andyp wrote:

Cummings doesn't ride for Sky anymore.

Remind me who manages BMC again?

Thats how much of a non-entity Cummings is, I forgot he moved team.

D.Pate has been very vocal last couple of weeks on Anti-Doping issues, wonder what he makes of Yates, Dowsett, Brailsford et al or will he just join the 'I didn't see nothin, Arsmtrong is a legend' line as well now...

Richmond Racer

LeicesterLad wrote:

andyp wrote:

Cummings doesn't ride for Sky anymore.

Remind me who manages BMC again?

Thats how much of a non-entity Cummings is, I forgot he moved team.

D.Pate has been very vocal last couple of weeks on Anti-Doping issues, wonder what he makes of Yates, Dowsett, Brailsford et al or will he just join the 'I didn't see nothin, Arsmtrong is a legend' line as well now...

LL, out of interest, what are your thoughts on other teams who have some links and how they're handling this, by comparison?

LeicesterLad

Richmond Racer wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

andyp wrote:

Cummings doesn't ride for Sky anymore.

Remind me who manages BMC again?

Thats how much of a non-entity Cummings is, I forgot he moved team.

D.Pate has been very vocal last couple of weeks on Anti-Doping issues, wonder what he makes of Yates, Dowsett, Brailsford et al or will he just join the 'I didn't see nothin, Arsmtrong is a legend' line as well now...

LL, out of interest, what are your thoughts on other teams who have some links and how they're handling this, by comparison?

Anybody else taking the same line I feel exactly the same about. Of course.

However not many other teams made such a stringent anti-doping promise or were conceived as late on as Sky were.

Brailsford so miticulous in management and 'marginal gains' yet he knew nothing about Leinders or Lance Armstrong, or Barry...?

Yates had high profile roles at Astana and US Postal but 'didn't see or hear anything'

where are those stringent anti-doping statements now?

Richmond Racer

LeicesterLad wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

andyp wrote:

Cummings doesn't ride for Sky anymore.

Remind me who manages BMC again?

Thats how much of a non-entity Cummings is, I forgot he moved team.

D.Pate has been very vocal last couple of weeks on Anti-Doping issues, wonder what he makes of Yates, Dowsett, Brailsford et al or will he just join the 'I didn't see nothin, Arsmtrong is a legend' line as well now...

LL, out of interest, what are your thoughts on other teams who have some links and how they're handling this, by comparison?

Anybody else taking the same line I feel exactly the same about. Of course.

However not many other teams made such a stringent anti-doping promise or were conceived as late on as Sky were.

Brailsford so miticulous in management and 'marginal gains' yet he knew nothing about Leinders or Lance Armstrong, or Barry...?

Yates had high profile roles at Astana and US Postal but 'didn't see or hear anything'

where are those stringent anti-doping statements now?

I think DB has a problem on his hands too - and the handling of the response right now is appalling. I'm not in PR but God I'd do a better job than is being done right now.

However as fans of the sport, by focusing so much on one team, we may over-look other teams' negiligence in their reactions. Pro cyling is not just Sky. That's all.

LeicesterLad

Completely agree, its just that Sky are suppose to be the face of a clean sport and their reaction, frankly has been dismal at best and horrific at worst.

blazing_saddles

Looking at CQ's transfer situation, there are 3 riders with question marks over their future with Sky:
Cav, (obviously) Rogers and............Dowsett.

Under the circumstances, I can't see how his comments could improve his contract chances.
Sky smelling less and less of roses, more and more like rose fertilizer.

cogidubnus

If everyone at Sky is currently clean, what does it matter what there past associations were? That said I am a little disappointed in Barry.

Have to say I am also partly with Dowsett on what he said. I'm not and never have been a LA fan but you can't help but respect what he achieved in his career. To battle cancer, complete so many tours and raise a hell of alot of money to fight cancer. Yes it is now very much stained with doping but who wasn't on rocket fuel in the 90's?

prawny

To be fair, I think DB comes across a bit naive, which I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for. When Sky started up, people slagged him off for knowing nothing about road cycling so it's fairly possible that he knew doping went on but was shocked at the extent of it. I mean to be fair there's stuff in there that surprised me and I expected the worst.

I've only read the BBC stuff so far and I didn't think Cummings was too bad, alright maybe he assumes lance has done more for charity than he has, and maybe he was nice to him. I'll let him off too (I'm sure they'll both be very pleased they're off the hook )

Dowsett though, what a plank :roll:

Richmond Racer

Ok, so what's coming out from other teams...owt? In Britain the media coverage since it broke yesterday has been pretty extensive, especially radio - here you'd expect to see Sky being asked to comment. I cant see it being any different in other countries with managers from home-based teams. Anyone know?

Turfle

Awful comments from Dowsett, but what has Brailsford said wrong? Everything I've heard from him is disappointment in Barry and in Armstrong.

prawny

Cogidubnus wrote:

Have to say I am also partly with Dowsett on what he said. I'm not and never have been a LA fan but you can't help but respect what he achieved in his career. To battle cancer, complete so many tours and raise a hell of alot of money to fight cancer. Yes it is now very much stained with doping but who wasn't on rocket fuel in the 90's?

I'm not with im at all, how much money has Livestrong actually donated to cancer research? I didn't think that was their thing, just awareness. Which I'm glad of, not enough people have heard of cancer.

It personally doesn't matter to me who was on the sauce, this needed to come out to make sure that it doesn't happen any more. Reading the bit about DZ is terrible, to get given your dream job and then encouraged to take drugs just to keep it. It's terrible, no better than a smack dealer in my eyes.

Mccaria

Taken from a velonation article in July 2012 . Kimmage to Brailsford. How deeply did Brailsford question Barry, or did he just get the answer he wanted to tick the box ?

"Asked to clarify what he meant by covert stuff, Kimmage gave several examples of things he said have troubled him, in terms of transparency. “There’s Sean Yates’ position as a directeur sportif at a time when Armstrong and his old team is being investigated; Yates was part of that setup. There’s also Michael Barry’s position on the team. He was named by Floyd [Landis] as using substances in the past.

“Two years ago I phoned Brailsford and told him the team needs to tell Barry to speak honestly about the past, to say that there will be no repercussions if he tells the truth, but I don’t think anything was done. There was also hemming and hawing about hiring [Neil] Stephens as a directeur sportif. All of the core principles that the team was founded on, they found ways to wriggle out of it and do something else."

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12357 ... z28zUJObRm

Richmond Racer

Cogidubnus wrote:

If everyone at Sky is currently clean, what does it matter what there past associations were? That said I am a little disappointed in Barry.

Have to say I am also partly with Dowsett on what he said. I'm not and never have been a LA fan but you can't help but respect what he achieved in his career. To battle cancer, complete so many tours and raise a hell of alot of money to fight cancer. Yes it is now very much stained with doping but who wasn't on rocket fuel in the 90's?

We keep on coming back to this point - its not about Armstrong doping as a rider, its about the huge role he had in
- supply
- administering
- coercion
- concealment
- perverting course of justice
and everything else.

He was not JUST another rider doping - he ran those teams with Bruyneel, what he said went, he dictated the doping programs. If you dont understand this fundamental point, then sorry, but you're not reading the evidence, and you certainly arent getting it.

rebs

Think we should ask Dowsett for his opinion on Jimmy Saville :P

andy_wrx

Richmond Racer wrote:

We keep on coming back to this point - its not about Armstrong doping as a rider, its about the huge role he had in
- supply
- administering
- coercion
- concealment
- perverting course of justice
and everything else.

He was not JUST another rider doping - he ran those teams with Bruyneel, what he said went, he dictated the doping programs. If you dont understand this fundamental point, then sorry, but you're not reading the evidence, and you certainly arent getting it.

^^^ yes, yes, yes !

Armstrong has now finally been proven not just to be a serial doper himself, just like may others did at the time, but also to have organised and trafficed a team doping program, and to have forced and bullied other team riders into doping as well.

Big difference

Richmond Racer

rebs wrote:

Think we should ask Dowsett for his opinion on Jimmy Saville :P

'He was a legend on Top of the Pops (which me dad told me about) and he was big into cycling. And he did a lot for charity - he came to Essex you know, to open a hospital. So he must have been a good guy.
Love Alex'

Next week: Alex explains that Santa really does exist.

Mr Dog

May be a legend to you Mr Dowsett but to me he's a cheat. What an example for our young cyclists to aspire to. Will cycling ever get its act together? Not while idiots like Dowsett try to excuse cheating. :evil:

rebs

Forgot Dowsett spent time at the livestrong devlopment squad.

Wonder if that's tainted. Very unlikely but seems like its reasonable to raise doubt.... maybe?

maddog 2

+1 Dowsett's comments are just, well, misguided at best and idiotic at worst.

So you're saying it's okay to dope... if you win, and are famous, and it's in the past...

RichN95.

Richmond Racer wrote:

Ok, so what's coming out from other teams...owt?

But the doping by Armstrong wasn't done at other teams. It was done at Sky. Or least that's what you'd think the way some people are going on.

mfin

prawny wrote:

Cogidubnus wrote:

Have to say I am also partly with Dowsett on what he said. I'm not and never have been a LA fan but you can't help but respect what he achieved in his career. To battle cancer, complete so many tours and raise a hell of alot of money to fight cancer. Yes it is now very much stained with doping but who wasn't on rocket fuel in the 90's?

I'm not with im at all, how much money has Livestrong actually donated to cancer research? I didn't think that was their thing, just awareness. Which I'm glad of, not enough people have heard of cancer.

Livestrong have long stopped donating anything to Cancer Research. You could give them a million of your hard earned pounds right now and NOTHING would go to Cancer Research.

What I don't like is the language 'Fight against Cancer' that's used, to me at least this sounds like something which would help eradicate cancer, but, with no research, it would do nothing along these lines.

What I do know though is PART of what they do, is giving support and information to Cancer sufferers and their families, which of course is very honorable. They also provide information in Countries where some people believe you can catch cancer from someone else, to educate that you can't.

(How efficient they are with all the donations given to them is another topic entirely).

hammerite

I think it's very easy for us to call out Armstrong for everything he's done. But for people like Dowsett who would know Armstrong personally, probably rode with him, may have been involved in giving Dowsett his first chance as a pro it's probably difficult to give a negative opinion. Especially if he's had no first hand experience of what Armstrong had been up to. Added to this... he's in China which probably hasn't made it too easy to keep a track of what's kicking off in the rest of the world. And who knows, maybe he's not the sharpest cookie

Loyal possibly, misguided possibly, ill informed probably.

Perhaps the best thing would be to say nothing!

mfin

hammerite wrote:

I think it's very easy for us to call out Armstrong for everything he's done. But for people like Dowsett who would know Armstrong personally, probably rode with him, may have been involved in giving Dowsett his first chance as a pro it's probably difficult to give a negative opinion. Especially if he's had no first hand experience of what Armstrong had been up to. Added to this... he's in China which probably hasn't made it too easy to keep a track of what's kicking off in the rest of the world. And who knows, maybe he's not the sharpest cookie.

Loyal possibly, misguided possibly, ill informed probably.

Perhaps the best thing would be to say nothing!

The bit about 'sharpest cookie' is definitely true, for some reason a lot of the time people listen to comments made in the light that the person making them is making intelligent, considered comments. All these cyclists are not by default either intelligent or individuals with well thought out opinions, probably only a few of them do offer this.

rickyrider

Yep, sad to say it but Sky are making a right old hash of this. Yates saying 'he didn't see anything'... come on son pull the other one!

afx237vi

Samuel Sanchez wins.

"Until the contrary is proved, he remains innocent. Lance has overcome many controls and even until today he has never been found positive in any of them."

That's from yesterday, not 1999.