Right or wrong

bobtbuilder

Hey folks,

Just wanted a smattering of opinions on a problem I have and what you guys & girls think is right and wrong:

My girlfriend (for want of a better word) is currently separated from her husband and the divorce is in progress. He knows that she is with me now and doesn't like it (understandable). To make life difficult for us, he only spends time with his two young kids for 24 hours each weekend (despite living 5 mins away). Most people who know him believe that this is specifically to stop her spending time with me the rest of the week and make it hard for her / us because she will have to stay home the rest of the week because of the kids.

To counter this, she has been asking me to come over in the evenings after the 2 boys have gone to sleep (she wants to wait another couple of months before introducing me to the boys, so that they have time to adjust to the current change without adding another person to the equation). This has worked fine for the last 2 months - until last night.

Last night, the husband was dropping a friend home in a neighbouring street and upon passing the family home, noticed my car in the vicinity. As a result he let himself in & all hell broke loose. I left as quickly as possible at my girlfriend's request as she didn't want the situation to get worse and wake the boys, etc.

Both her and her husband still own the house, and agreed that she would live there until next September to avoid an early-termination clause in the mortgage and to give the boys the stability of the family home while the divorce goes through.

So, my question is; is it OK for me to be spending time with my girlfriend at the family home or not?

Honest opinions appreciated.

Rob

The Rookie

Yes, you're all adults, you all know the situation, frankly it's nowt to do with him if he has voluntarily moved out, you are taking care not to upset the children, had any of those factors not been in place I'd have said no.

Next time cycle there and take the bike in - no car to spot! Another advantage of cycling!

EKE_38BPM

Is your girlfriend a (or maybe the) receptionist?

bobtbuilder

The Beginner wrote:

Yes, you're all adults, you all know the situation, frankly it's nowt to do with him if he has voluntarily moved out, you are taking care not to upset the children, had any of those factors not been in place I'd have said no.

Next time cycle there and take the bike in - no car to spot! Another advantage of cycling!

Yep - he moved out voluntarily.

Is your girlfriend a (or maybe the) receptionist?

Sorry - I don't understand this. :?

mudcow007

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Is your girlfriend a (or maybe the) receptionist?

ahh Hambones

what ever happened to him?

Kieran_Burns

bobtbuilder wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Yes, you're all adults, you all know the situation, frankly it's nowt to do with him if he has voluntarily moved out, you are taking care not to upset the children, had any of those factors not been in place I'd have said no.

Next time cycle there and take the bike in - no car to spot! Another advantage of cycling!

Yep - he moved out voluntarily.

Is your girlfriend a (or maybe the) receptionist?

Sorry - I don't understand this. :?

viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12765242

Legendary thread.

chilling

Change the locks.

edhornby

chilling wrote:

Change the locks.

not legally allowed to, he still owns/part owns the house....

ride round on your bike and lock it out of site is the answer

secretsam

There's nothing to stop you staying there, although it is rubbing his nose in it - but if he moved out, then he can hardly expect his ex to toddle off to a nunnery, etc.

Consult legal advice about changing the locks, if he has moved out then he may have no right to enter the premises uninvited - similar to a landlord?

Don't become the meat in their D.i.v.o.r.c.e. sandwich - you are not a lever for their break up

CiB

So this bloke has moved out. At whose bequest? OP doesn't say. It's his house - he's paid for it and presumably is still paying for it, where his still-but-soon-not-to-be wife is still living with his kids, and the inference is that the split is still quite recent so it's a bit raw for him still. And he comes past to find a new bloke has got his feet under the table? Can't blame him personally. Having once been in an identical position (I was the one popping round for a cup of tea etc) I came out to find my wing mirror hanging off the car. I like to think I'd do the same if the situations were reversed.

Tough one OP. Yeah you're all adults but this bloke is having it shoved in his face seeing your car there with you in their house with his wife watching their telly on their settee and their kids upstairs. You expect him to shrug his shoulders and let it happen without a fuss? You've done a bit more than trod on his toes mate.

bobtbuilder

CIB - he moved out voluntarily as he has parents and sister all within 5 miles and my girlfriend has no relatives at all in this country (she's American). They also decided together that it was in the best interests of the kids for her to remain in the family home with them until next September (mortgage clause). In fact, he is the one who is most bothered about the mortgage clause.

I parked my car in their road but not outside the house.

He only sees the kids 1 day per weekend, specifically to keep she & I apart. Maybe if he was willing to have the boys some evenings in the week, she would be able to come to my house and not always me go to theirs. Essentially he "allows" her 1 day of freedom per week to see me (which he can't reasonably control) but assumed by keeping her "hostage" at home for 6 days a week that I couldn't see her.

jonny_trousers

CiB wrote:

Tough one OP. Yeah you're all adults but this bloke is having it shoved in his face seeing your car there with you in their house with his wife watching their telly on their settee and their kids upstairs. You expect him to shrug his shoulders and let it happen without a fuss? You've done a bit more than trod on his toes mate.

^This!

No matter who is to blame for the split, it's clearly still raw with the ex and I think a touch of sensitivity may be required for a while. He might be the most level-headed man in the world ordinarily, but given the situation, it's perhaps understandable that his paranoia might be getting the better of him. If there were no kids involved it would be a whole different matter, but as there are, you all need to tread carefully.

Him still having keys to the house seems a touch dodgy, however. Perhaps your girlfriend should add some kind of secondary lock she can use when home without changing those that require keys.

Good luck! If the relationship is a worthwhile one then a touch of patience on your parts will be a small, worthwhile sacrifice.

tailwindhome

2 kid and a angry ex. I'd walk away. But YMMV.

spasypaddy

mudcow007 wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Is your girlfriend a (or maybe the) receptionist?

ahh Hambones

what ever happened to him?

he got faster and beat me in a TT which his wife and kids were watching...

t4tomo

Essentially he "allows" her 1 day of freedom per week to see me (which he can't reasonably control) but assumed by keeping her "hostage" at home for 6 days a week that I couldn't see her.

well there are such things as baby sitters if you want an evening out.

SimonAH

You are in the right.... but his reaction is more than understandable. Not rational but totally understandable.

Until you are introduced to the kids formally as 'the partner' you have no real standing and need to keep your head down. Once that happens then you will have to stand tall and manage the situation with the ex face to face and be calmly forceful.

Just me tuppence

rick_chasey

I'd suggest just trying to be a bit more discreet about it.

Harry182

I realise I'm not answering your question but --

Don't sneak around on the kids. Treat them with respect and be honest with them. This isn't the issue but they're going to find out anyway so shouldn't it be on your girlfriend's terms? If your girlfriend wants to introduce you to them slowly then cool it off between you two in the meantime. If it doesn't work between you and the kids then it's not going to work between the two of you.

The question shouldn't be whether or not you can spend time at her house, which I think is fine. (Oops, there, I did answer your question.) It's her house too and her husband shouldn't have a say how she lives in it so long as her actions don't harm the property or the kids. And there's the issue -- He should have a say in how his kids are raised. (This is becoming a can of worms.)

If it were me, I would want my ex-wife be honest with my kids. If she were doing something she felt she had to hide from them then she probably shouldn't be it and definitely shouldn't do it with the kids asleep in the next room. (Too many pronouns. It's not meant to sound dirty.)

jedster

To be honest, he is in the wrong but I don't think sitting on that high ground is a winning strategy.
I tend to agree that sneaking around with the kids upstairs is not good (even if he is driving you to it).
I second the babysitter solution

bobtbuilder

Thank you everybody for the honest opinions and suggestions. I really do appreciate them.

Just to clear up the kids issue: the boys are 3 & 5 in age. My girlfriend wants them to get used to the big change in their life of their Dad moving out first before introducing the idea of a new partner. She plans on introducing me to them in December. She cares for the boys above ALL else and genuinely believes that this is best for them. I don't have any kids of my own, so I can't comment much on what is best for them, so I defer to her judgement.

To me, it smacks of double standards that he has 5 week nights & 1 weekend day to go wherever he wants, see whoever he wants, but he "allows" her 1 day in return. It p*sses him off that she has someone else now and he doesn't.

rick_chasey

bobtbuilder wrote:

To me, it smacks of double standards that he has 5 week nights & 1 weekend day to go wherever he wants, see whoever he wants, but he "allows" her 1 day in return. It p*sses him off that she has someone else now and he doesn't.

Everyone's a hypocrite, especially in areas where they're emotionally involved, unfortunately.

But you're right.

jedster

bob,

"Just to clear up the kids issue: the boys are 3 & 5 in age. My girlfriend wants them to get used to the big change in their life of their Dad moving out first before introducing the idea of a new partner. She plans on introducing me to them in December. She cares for the boys above ALL else and genuinely believes that this is best for them. I don't have any kids of my own, so I can't comment much on what is best for them, so I defer to her judgement."

I think she's probably right about that TBH. But in that case, I wouldn't want to be there when the kids woke up in the night feeling sick and needing their Mummy. Back to baby sitters I reckon.

And yes he is being a hypocrit as we all might in his situation. Not right just not surprising.

bobtbuilder

jedster wrote:

I think she's probably right about that TBH. But in that case, I wouldn't want to be there when the kids woke up in the night feeling sick and needing their Mummy. Back to baby sitters I reckon.

And yes he is being a hypocrit as we all might in his situation. Not right just not surprising.

I tend to go round approx 8:30 when the eldest (5yr old) has gone to sleep. We watch a film or some TV and I leave around 11pm

We use babysitters when we go out, but money is tight for both of us right now and she says me visiting in the evenings makes a world of difference to her.

UndercoverElephant

bobtbuilder wrote:

We use babysitters when we go out, but money is tight for both of us right now and she says me visiting in the evenings makes a world of difference to her.

You know, I bet it does. She's stuck in by herself in a country without any support from her family, and is expected to just get on with it? I can understand that the ex is going to be a bit on the miffed side with the whole situation, but as far as I'm concerned, you're doing no wrong.

peat

I know there's the addage 'You can't help who you fall in love with', but that situation has car-crash written all over it. I wouldn't want to be involved.

Not wishing to be presumptuous, but are you perhaps a reason for the separation? i.e, is she leaving him for you? If so, as the husband, i would be making life as difficult as possible for you too. And i can understand if he gets a bit wound up to find you in his house with his kids.

Just sayin.

EKE_38BPM

I think meeting the (soon to be ex) husband and talking to him is probably the best option. Tell him you're not in it just for a bunk up. You want to do the right thing by the kids. You don't want to wind him up, but as you're trying to build a relationship with her (and eventually the kids) spending time together is the only way.

Basically, lie.

popularname

UndercoverElephant wrote:

bobtbuilder wrote:

We use babysitters when we go out, but money is tight for both of us right now and she says me visiting in the evenings makes a world of difference to her.

You know, I bet it does. She's stuck in by herself in a country without any support from her family, and is expected to just get on with it? I can understand that the ex is going to be a bit on the miffed side with the whole situation, but as far as I'm concerned, you're doing no wrong.

UE's dead right here, IMHO.

My kids are a lot older and live with me half the time. My 16yo has his own GF, but they both still (three years after their mum walked out) aren't keen on the idea of me having a girlfriend. So I'd say that you're right to take it gently in terms of when and how you meet them, Rob, and to listen to what she believes is the best thing for her kids.

Jeez. No wonder she likes being with you - you listen to her, respect what she thinks and you're there for her. Good man.

DonDaddyD

bobtbuilder wrote:

Hey folks,

Just wanted a smattering of opinions on a problem I have and what you guys & girls think is right and wrong:

My girlfriend (for want of a better word) is currently separated from her husband and the divorce is in progress. He knows that she is with me now and doesn't like it (understandable). To make life difficult for us, he only spends time with his two young kids for 24 hours each weekend (despite living 5 mins away). Most people who know him believe that this is specifically to stop her spending time with me the rest of the week and make it hard for her / us because she will have to stay home the rest of the week because of the kids.

To counter this, she has been asking me to come over in the evenings after the 2 boys have gone to sleep (she wants to wait another couple of months before introducing me to the boys, so that they have time to adjust to the current change without adding another person to the equation). This has worked fine for the last 2 months - until last night.

Last night, the husband was dropping a friend home in a neighbouring street and upon passing the family home, noticed my car in the vicinity. As a result he let himself in & all hell broke loose. I left as quickly as possible at my girlfriend's request as she didn't want the situation to get worse and wake the boys, etc.

Both her and her husband still own the house, and agreed that she would live there until next September to avoid an early-termination clause in the mortgage and to give the boys the stability of the family home while the divorce goes through.

So, my question is; is it OK for me to be spending time with my girlfriend at the family home or not?

Honest opinions appreciated.

Rob

Ms DDD arena - Child custody, fighting social services and she did some divorce work.

I may show her this and ask her to respond. However, the first thing the husband wants to think about is his visitation rights, if through the divorce proceedings he is demonstrating that he is only willing to see his boys for 24hrs each week, when it comes to making these arrangement legally (i.e. seeing the kids every other weekend) he isn't going to have much of a leg to stand on.

The judge could make it so the wife doesn't have to sell until the boys are 16 - 18 years old. I know of at least one case like that.

Then there is how much he has to contribute financially. Personally I think the husband needs reminding about all of this and how he plans to conduct himself in future.

Oh and there is nothing wrong with you tapping his wife in their marital home in their bed/sofa/kitchen counter. He agreed to move out and she is free to have whoever she wants there. - This is why I would never move out in the first place. (That decision may affect her own custody of the kids, but I'm sure you're a stand up guy with no criminal record or a risk to children or known to social services).

DonDaddyD

DonDaddyD wrote:

bobtbuilder wrote:

Hey folks,

Just wanted a smattering of opinions on a problem I have and what you guys & girls think is right and wrong:

My girlfriend (for want of a better word) is currently separated from her husband and the divorce is in progress. He knows that she is with me now and doesn't like it (understandable). To make life difficult for us, he only spends time with his two young kids for 24 hours each weekend (despite living 5 mins away). Most people who know him believe that this is specifically to stop her spending time with me the rest of the week and make it hard for her / us because she will have to stay home the rest of the week because of the kids.

To counter this, she has been asking me to come over in the evenings after the 2 boys have gone to sleep (she wants to wait another couple of months before introducing me to the boys, so that they have time to adjust to the current change without adding another person to the equation). This has worked fine for the last 2 months - until last night.

Last night, the husband was dropping a friend home in a neighbouring street and upon passing the family home, noticed my car in the vicinity. As a result he let himself in & all hell broke loose. I left as quickly as possible at my girlfriend's request as she didn't want the situation to get worse and wake the boys, etc.

Both her and her husband still own the house, and agreed that she would live there until next September to avoid an early-termination clause in the mortgage and to give the boys the stability of the family home while the divorce goes through.

So, my question is; is it OK for me to be spending time with my girlfriend at the family home or not?

Honest opinions appreciated.

Rob

Ms DDD arena - Child custody, fighting social services and she did some divorce work.

I may show her this and ask her to respond. However, the first thing the husband wants to think about is his visitation rights, if through the divorce proceedings he is demonstrating that he is only willing to see his boys for 24hrs each week, when it comes to making these arrangement legally (i.e. seeing the kids every other weekend) he isn't going to have much of a leg to stand on.

The judge could make it so the wife doesn't have to sell until the boys are 16 - 18 years old. I know of at least one case like that.

Then there is how much he has to contribute financially. Personally I think the husband needs reminding about all of this and how he plans to conduct himself in future.

Oh and there is nothing wrong with you tapping his wife in their marital home in their bed/sofa/kitchen counter. He agreed to move out and she is free to have whoever she wants there. - This is why I would never move out in the first place. (That decision may affect her own custody of the kids, but I'm sure you're a stand up guy with no criminal record or a risk to children or known to social services).

Ms DDD's (Family lawyer of 10 years+) advice.

She said:

Professionally: It is her house so she can do what she wants. (He may jointly own it, but she is living in it).
Morally: She wouldn't have you there/stay over.

bobtbuilder

@ALL: Thanks again everyone for the advice, opinions and best wishes. It's completely turned my day around.

She's just gone to mediation so I'm worrying about how that's going, but she's really focused today so I am confident she will handle herself admirably.

@DDD - Thanks for asking your Mrs' advice. FYI I've never stayed over at the house and don't intend to.

@Popularname - Thanks for your posts especially. You've been very kind. Until we are a proper family, I intend to respect her guidance and decisions on all things related to her boys.

@ EKE_38BPM - Kind of tried this once. When he found out he came to my house with the intention of giving me a kicking. I stopped this from happening, but there definitely wasn't a chance to talk things over. If it hadn't been at his house, and him more angry at her last night, I'm sure he would have tried again. I'm not sure how to get to a point where a conversation would be possible.

@Peat - Yes and no. She was building up the courage to leave him when we met (we work together). We talked a lot about divorce and the consequences (I'm from a "broken" home), we fell in love and this has definitely speeded up the process. Our relationship was non-physical until after they'd separated, although of course he doesn't believe this.

spen666

bobtbuilder wrote:

....
So, my question is; is it OK for me to be spending time with my girlfriend at the family home or not?

Honest opinions appreciated.

Rob

That's not your decision.

Its one for your girlfriend