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Modern Morals....

dmclite-3.0dmclite-3.0 Posts: 845
edited September 2012 in The bottom bracket
On here we have had lots of conversations about everything and it is one of the most enlightened and thought provoking places i want to be part of, however after a few recent posts I have noticed something in the wording of posts which troubles me. The use of derogatory terms which are part of normal conversation which are used without regard seems to be prevalent, in our society and in our little online enclave.

In a post someone referred to themselves as a "Window Licker". This is a derogatory term IMHO which both my 2 sons have been referred to in the past. As a parent of my 2 (Autistic) sons, who get the bus to and from school, trying to explain what that means to them when they asked was very difficult and upsetting for them and me. Being different in any way as a kid can be hard and as my sons get older they have a growing realisation of being apart from their peers and having to adjust accordingly.

All I am asking is a bit of understanding and some compassion tied in with good manners. Having disabled kids has made me change for the better, just wish it wasn't such a bitter curve sometimes.

Dave.
I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...
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  • CiBCiB Posts: 6,098
    Right.

    I just posted a dismissive response to your other post. Now I've read this, which changes the context. I'd like to apologise for using it. Genuinely. You have my apologies.

    However. This is BB; it's more relaxed, that was the point of it. In my experience the term WL (I'll abbreviate it) really has come to mean someone who's just a bit odd in the way he/she does things and has odd compulsions. I really do see it as a point & larf at 'normal' people who just do things that make them look odd, or - and I can't in this brief paragraph phrase it more succinctly - 'simple', doing things out of their ordinary way of doing things. It was meant to convey that I'd been caught...


    Oh bollox. Sorry I got your goat. I probably won't use it again but equally we do seem to be reaching a point where any phrase that might be considered a bit off is used to beat someone with. Call me whatever you want to; I'll shrug my shoulders. I don't out of habit go round wilfully insulting those less fortunate and wouldn't / don't. Like I said though, this is BB.

    Over & out.
  • CiB wrote:
    Right.

    I just posted a dismissive response to your other post. Now I've read this, which changes the context. I'd like to apologise for using it. Genuinely. You have my apologies.

    However. This is BB; it's more relaxed, that was the point of it. In my experience the term WL (I'll abbreviate it) really has come to mean someone who's just a bit odd in the way he/she does things and has odd compulsions. I really do see it as a point & larf at 'normal' people who just do things that make them look odd, or - and I can't in this brief paragraph phrase it more succinctly - 'simple', doing things out of their ordinary way of doing things. It was meant to convey that I'd been caught...


    Oh bollox. Sorry I got your goat. I probably won't use it again but equally we do seem to be reaching a point where any phrase that might be considered a bit off is used to beat someone with. Call me whatever you want to; I'll shrug my shoulders. I don't out of habit go round wilfully insulting those less fortunate and wouldn't / don't. Like I said though, this is BB.

    Over & out.

    No worries, appreciate your understanding of this. I also realise I do come across a bit Mary Whitehouse over this sort of thing but it is very close to my heart and i am a bit over protective of my boys, sometimes I have to let stuff slide with them as I don't want them wrapped in cotton wool. I do know what you mean about phrases being the norm to use and then someone jumps all over you for it, this wasn't my intention as I have tried to convey in the first paragraph of my OP. I'm no delicate myself, ex-para so have been in the company of extreme banter and find it funny.
    Sorry for getting at you, no malice intended, sometimes I bite and its easy for me to be a keyboard warrior.
    Dave.
    I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    edited September 2012
    I too have a now adult son who is aspergers, and some things during his childhood would really hurt but these were more often than not issues with his condition, rather than with hurtful comments. I only recall one occassion when Mrs Tank went "apeshit" at a bunch of parents in the school playground in defence of our son, against their ignorance.

    I tend to not let "derogatory" terms bother me,as the OP suggests a lot are now actually an accepted part of descriptive ordinary terminaology; and in my opinion they're probably used in a context to not cause offence.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • its an unfortunate side effect of the internet, most folk on here are 'virtual' in the sense that you do not know others and their history, life experiences, situations etc, in fact all you can go on is what they type on here mostly. Sure a profile builds up, but my its nature its very two dimensional.

    While i'm all for keeping things civil, its inevitable that wires will be crossed, its a fine line between the PC brigade and robust dialogue . There are many things i would say to people who 'know' me, which would be taken out of context on a forum such as this, but morals are funny things.........they are cultural specific, and do change over time.

    My own stand is that mock the rich and powerful, but not the poor and disadvantaged.
  • tim wandtim wand Posts: 2,945
    It is a bit of a minefield , Common sense should prevail and you have to be mindful of others perception and personal experiences, the nature of this forum is as a whole we do not know one anothers personal circumstances and as such tend to behave in a less inhibited manner.

    I got a lot of stick this weekend for Subbing a member of my football team and telling him to go home and have a word with himself because he stood in a public park shouting at the top of his voice , calling our goal keeper "A f*cking Spastic" for a simple error he made in coming to collect a corner.

    We lost 3-0 and one or two of the team had a go at me for subbing the lad, who is generally our star player.

    It wasnt until I pointed out to them we were playing at Lowdham home of Paul Whitehead a para olympic gold medalist and ironically in sight of a gold post box painted in his honour, that anyone stopped to think.

    I do wonder though if I would have done the same thing if not for recent events which have made me more sensitive and apprieciative of others and the issues they have faced in their lives.
  • I'm very confused as to why a silly comment about a window licker warranted a post about autism in your family. If you let name calling get to you then I feel sorry for you. Life's too short to give a f**k what strangers think.
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,616
    Vino2007 wrote:
    I'm very confused as to why a silly comment about a window licker warranted a post about autism in your family. If you let name calling get to you then I feel sorry for you. Life's too short to give a f**k what strangers think.
    There is a technical term for someone who "doesn't give a f**k what other people think" - it's psychopath.
  • tim wandtim wand Posts: 2,945
    Vino2007 wrote:
    I'm very confused as to why a silly comment about a window licker warranted a post about autism in your family. If you let name calling get to you then I feel sorry for you. Life's too short to give a f**k what strangers think.

    He didnt say all people, he said "Strangers", and hes got a point . There is too large a cross section of views , attitudes and behaviours in society to take offence to everything, Ultimately people can only do you damage with words if you let them.

    In an Ideal world everyone would be socially educated to be aware of each others sensitivities, but this world is too diverse to get it right all the time.
  • And things posted in Bottom Bracket do come with a warning - for all their failings, the mods did go out of their way to create a space for views/opinions that would be out of place elsewhere. Wasn't there a thread about fat women - or was that in cake stop - thats now gone missing - I mean a warning couldn't be much clearer than

    Bottom Bracket
    "Adults only! Warning - you may be offended!"

    I'm off to listen to The Three Johns
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • Vino2007 wrote:
    I'm very confused as to why a silly comment about a window licker warranted a post about autism in your family. If you let name calling get to you then I feel sorry for you. Life's too short to give a f**k what strangers think.

    It may be because an autism sufferer may well get called a "window licker" by someone who is ignorant/insensitive or both.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • Vino2007 wrote:
    I'm very confused as to why a silly comment about a window licker warranted a post about autism in your family. If you let name calling get to you then I feel sorry for you. Life's too short to give a f**k what strangers think.


    If you are confused then it is no use trying to explain it to you. Everyone else who has posted has grasped the concept on reading the thread and have offered opinion on it, whether they agree with my sentiments or not. Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    Its better now, they are older but as I said I get a bit OTT sometimes and I thanked CiB for his responses to our thread.

    Good to have these discussions, i like the community we have nurtured on here, diversity and insightfulness is usually the norm but the above comment from Vino2007 highlights when the room gets a bit dim.
    I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...
  • Vino2007 wrote:
    I'm very confused as to why a silly comment about a window licker warranted a post about autism in your family. If you let name calling get to you then I feel sorry for you. Life's too short to give a f**k what strangers think.


    If you are confused then it is no use trying to explain it to you. Everyone else who has posted has grasped the concept on reading the thread and have offered opinion on it, whether they agree with my sentiments or not. Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    Its better now, they are older but as I said I get a bit OTT sometimes and I thanked CiB for his responses to our thread.

    Good to have these discussions, i like the community we have nurtured on here, diversity and insightfulness is usually the norm but the above comment from Vino2007 highlights when the room gets a bit dim.

    You certainly get put through the emotional wringer don't ya fella. Had a similar experience with my boy. Also remember hi asking "when will I get a friend"? and we had to actually had to tell him the truth about Santas existance in order to protect him from the jibeing of other children.

    Some folk though, have no comprehension and don't understand how hurtful "silly comments" can be.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • Vino2007 wrote:
    I'm very confused as to why a silly comment about a window licker warranted a post about autism in your family. If you let name calling get to you then I feel sorry for you. Life's too short to give a f**k what strangers think.


    If you are confused then it is no use trying to explain it to you. Everyone else who has posted has grasped the concept on reading the thread and have offered opinion on it, whether they agree with my sentiments or not. Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    Its better now, they are older but as I said I get a bit OTT sometimes and I thanked CiB for his responses to our thread.

    Good to have these discussions, i like the community we have nurtured on here, diversity and insightfulness is usually the norm but the above comment from Vino2007 highlights when the room gets a bit dim.

    You certainly get put through the emotional wringer don't ya fella. Had a similar experience with my boy. Also remember hi asking "when will I get a friend"? and we had to actually had to tell him the truth about Santas existance in order to protect him from the jibeing of other children.

    Some folk though, have no comprehension and don't understand how hurtful "silly comments" can be.

    I know mate, boys are pretty good now more understanding and socially aware but its hard to turn off the old emotional Dad taps sometimes.
    I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    That's disgusting. Must've been horrible. But it also goes to show that everything is offensive only in context, delivery etc...

    Its very difficult to police these things on a Forum, and unnecessary too as Id imagine if offence was taken for good reason then whoever dished it out would most likely apologise. MOST of the time, phrases are used with humour, and now and again, the phrase will fall on the wrong ears.

    I think its important that we do get to use all sorts of phrases in life, but on a Forum Id agree with you, its not reaaaally the place, I think you've gotta strike up quite a bit of banter with someone before you can call them anything derogatory but meant humorously. In fact I don't think there's anyone on here I feel Id be familiar with enough that Id call an 'idiot' for example, let alone some of the phrases my close mates and I will use at each other day in day out!!
  • I may be an idiot, but i'm no fool
  • "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    Is her other son called Dave and her daughter Four Plus One. :D
    mfin wrote:

    In fact I don't think there's anyone on here I feel Id be familiar with enough that Id call an 'idiot' for example

    I hope you don't call me an idiot - i'm a knob head and I'd hate to be upgraded. :D
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • mattshropsmattshrops Posts: 1,158
    Everything is different when it relates directly to yourself. Most jokes or jokey insults have a dark side to them.
    Important to differentiate between deliberately hurtful remarks(like that woman-jesus how did you not smash her face with you forehead?) and unintentional.
    Cancer remarks are touchy for me ATM. these things are part of life-and death-though.
    Some friends of my moms have the most beautiful daughter who is downs syndrome-she is sometimes a target.

    I am always aware that one tiny little difference in our chromosones would alter our lives so dramatically.

    How much we take our health and lives for granted.

    Remember to look at the sky and the trees. 8)
    Death or Glory- Just another Story
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,177
    Come racing in Bradford. Its not an official race, you just shout "Allah is a tw4t" and then get on with it.

    I bet that will offend someone.

    Sticks and stones will break...
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    I hope you don't call me an idiot - i'm a knob head and I'd hate to be upgraded. :D

    A Knob head?? ...well, pleased to meet you, im a 'complete f******g berk' myself at bare minimum :)
  • Come racing in Bradford. Its not an official race, you just shout "Allah is a tw4t" and then get on with it.

    I bet that will offend someone.

    Sticks and stones will break...

    :D:D:D
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • tim wandtim wand Posts: 2,945
    Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    Sh*t thats got my blood boiling, and its not even my kid and I am hoping something that happened a long time ago?

    The only kind of solace I can see in that is that your kid is better off not associating with children who have had the misfortune in life to have been brought up by idiots like that.

    You can just about understand that level of ignorance in a child, but from an adult, they really should be censored from bringing up children and perpetuating vileness like that.

    Personally I would have gone to the police and reported them for "Hate crime"
  • tim wand wrote:
    Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    Sh*t thats got my blood boiling, and its not even my kid and I am hoping something that happened a long time ago?

    The only kind of solace I can see in that is that your kid is better off not associating with children who have had the misfortune in life to have been brought up by idiots like that.

    You can just about understand that level of ignorance in a child, but from an adult, they really should be censored from bringing up children and perpetuating vileness like that.

    Personally I would have gone to the police and reported them for "Hate crime"

    That was 5 years ago, he and his brother both have Statements now and are in an autistic unit which is part of a main school and they do 60% mainstream and the rest in the unit (speech therapy, social ed etc). They are happy, have friends and get out and about. As a family we are very well adjusted and comfortable. That wasn't the worst that has happened but if i think too much about it, it just makes me mental.

    Cheers fellas.
    I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...
  • Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    I think Skye's mum needs decking, (but not the stuff in the garden) :)
  • dmclite-3.0dmclite-3.0 Posts: 845
    edited September 2012
    DSCF0181_zps84b20d68.jpg?t=1348203978

    Here is a pic of him with an owl :) Looks normal enough, eh ?
    I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...
  • tim wand wrote:
    Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    Sh*t thats got my blood boiling, and its not even my kid and I am hoping something that happened a long time ago?

    The only kind of solace I can see in that is that your kid is better off not associating with children who have had the misfortune in life to have been brought up by idiots like that.

    You can just about understand that level of ignorance in a child, but from an adult, they really should be censored from bringing up children and perpetuating vileness like that.

    Personally I would have gone to the police and reported them for "Hate crime"

    Hopefully people are more enlightened now, it's probably ignorance more than malice the same thing happened to my lad twenty years ago and it was because the parent thought their youngster my "catch it (autism)" . Why it may have been passed on at the party but not in school :? ,well, make your own mind up me and Mrs Tank did.

    That was 20 years ago, as I said I'd like to think people are a bit more enlightened nowadays.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,689
    Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    I assume you were living in Medway at the time...
  • Sorry I will try to elaborate my point. If he had spouted some derogatory name at you or your kids in person then yes that is totally unacceptable but a flippant comment on a forum board you really need to just ignore. Why draw comparisons in your first post. Nobody takes the "lords name in vain" and means it literally, it's just a figure of speech...I think?
  • johnfinch wrote:
    Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    I assume you were living in Medway at the time...


    Yes, you know the score.
    I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...
  • Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    In a varied life, I have never come across anyone so crass and offensive. You must have incredible self restraint and dignity not to have assaulted her. Intolerance is a direct result of ignorance, and we are all the better for rising above it. The bigger people of the world will always be supportive.
  • pliptrot wrote:
    Try explaining to your 7 year old son the reason he was not invited to a classmates birthday party (when the rest of the class, all 31, were invited) because his mum told me at the school gates, "I'm not having that window licker at Skye's party".

    In a varied life, I have never come across anyone so crass and offensive. You must have incredible self restraint and dignity not to have assaulted her. Intolerance is a direct result of ignorance, and we are all the better for rising above it. The bigger people of the world will always be supportive.

    I had to walk away. I still see her now and just hate the way she made me feel and the effect she had on Rob (my son). Jeremy Kyle fodder at best I think.
    I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast...
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