Vaughters confesses for others

Turfle

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughte ... -at-garmin

He basically outed CVV, Zabriskie, Danielson. And other interesting things.

No_Ta_Doctor

Interesting, but so far from being the right way of doing this, or the right way to talk about his riders.

Shame.

I'm sure it would have all come out eventually, but I would have preferred to see this handled officially. I bloody well hope they all agreed to this and knew when and where this was going to happen.

Turfle

Especially Dekker: "arrogant prick", and Danielson: "not mentally strong".

I mean we knew those things already, and that the 3 named were most likely ex-dopers, but to say it all on a forum seems a bit odd. I can't see what good will come of doing it that way.

afx237vi

Just now...

@Vaughters

Anyone who thinks I'm a slick talking PR man, guess I, idiotically, proved you wrong. I'm just a dumb ass. Apologies.

This is all getting very weird.

mfin

He might be really good friends with those riders though, my mates and I call each other dickheads and pricks and far worse all the time, we all talk like that, and its never meant with any ounce of harm, in fact its the opposite. Makes me read what he's saying as might not be being derogatory at all. Might!

RichN95.

Vaughters's problem is that he can't help going on to The Asylum and engaging the most idiotic of them who are basically trying to out-troll each other. It's like Richard Dawkins trying to teach evolution to the Westboro Baptist Church. He gets sucked in and says things he probably shouldn't. Considering he took so long to publically confess, he should afford Danielson the same options.

dave_1

so, there you go!

Edit-sorry , repeat thread..remove if wish

iainf72

NYVelocity asked him on twitter if those guys are pissed at him and he said nope

It makes sense - Next week USADA wil release their evidence so it'll come out then. Wouldn't be surprised to hear something from George soon

Does this mean Tom D didn't just get training plans from Ferrari?

iainf72

THe timing of this one

http://michaelbarry.ca/2012/09/thank-you/

is also interesting, if you recall what Flandis said

frenchfighter

Wow. This is very interesting.

Are there any clean Americans?

Tom D - isn't he this amazing Eskimo? Vaughters spinning us some BS on that one. Also on the fact Garmin is the safe and clean team.

Odd.

ratherbeintobago

This is all getting very weird.

+1

As above, most of what he said has been rumour for a long time; however, he does go into one or two potentially awkward specifics.

Vaughters spinning us some BS on that one. Also on the fact Garmin is the safe and clean team.

I think Garmin probably is a safe and clean team. Doesn't mean that a lot of people involved might have dubious pasts though.

Andy

Yellow Peril

I'm not sure whether there's a right way or a wrong way to do this. This sort of 'back door confession' perhaps makes it easier on those riders. They aren't staring directly into the headlights of the media as it happens and as with many difficult things some people prefer to be pushed rather than jump themselves.

If the interest in these dopers passes quickly then they may view it as having been a successful way of fessing up.

Does anyone else think that Vaughters is starting to look like Elton John? On egood reason not to dope.

disgruntledgoat

ratherbeintobago wrote:

This is all getting very weird.

+1

As above, most of what he said has been rumour for a long time; however, he does go into one or two potentially awkward specifics.

Vaughters spinning us some BS on that one. Also on the fact Garmin is the safe and clean team.

I think Garmin probably is a safe and clean team. Doesn't mean that a lot of people involved might have dubious pasts though.

Andy

If you can't bring yourself to believe in Garmin then I would question why you bother watching cycling

ratherbeintobago

If you can't bring yourself to believe in Garmin then I would question why you bother watching cycling

Was that for me or FF?

Andy

disgruntledgoat

For FF sorry, posting from a phone and it ain't easy!

frenchfighter

Don't worry about me...I am one of the ones who prefer to err on the side that the sport is clean. I would easily expect 80%+ to be clean.

I do think Garmin is a clean team...read the comments better and it shows that they were doping before. I thought Tom D was all Garmin - looked and he was in Dirty Disco. In fact he has been racing for 10years! So much for having an amazing aerobic capacity...

iainf72

Someone on the asylum posted that a while back TD's ex posted a blog about how Bruyneel nearly killed him with a dodgy transfusion but then deleted it

disgruntledgoat

frenchfighter wrote:

Don't worry about me...I am one of the ones who prefer to err on the side that the sport is clean. I would easily expect 80%+ to be clean.

I do think Garmin is a clean team...read the comments better and it shows that they were doping before. I thought Tom D was all Garmin - looked and he was in Dirty Disco. In fact he has been racing for 10years! So much for having an amazing aerobic capacity...

A top 10 in his first Tour (with Garmin, incidentally) would point to that...

I thought his point was more that Danielson was a rider who would improve his results more through being better supported mentally than pumped full of PEDs, which was his former set up's default response.

LangerDan

I'd expect to see more of these over the next few weeks / months - I think they hope the admissions can be lost in the bigger Armstrong picture.

Father Vaughters is starting to appear increasingly self-serving.

r0bh

I've no problem with Garmin hiring Millar, VdV, Z etc but when they hired Dekker they / Vaughters really went down in my estimation. Surely you have to draw a line somewhere and say right if you fail a doping test post 2008 (? - and yes I know Dekker was popped for a sample taken in 2007 so maybe he just scrapes inside this) that's it you had your chance to ride clean and blew it. I can only imagine how Dan Lloyd, Roger Hammond or A N Other clean rider without a ride for 2012 is now feeling about Garmin hiring Dekker, especially as he is "an arrogant prick. Or was. hugely insecure guy. It's been a lot of work with him. A lot...."

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

Someone on the asylum posted that a while back TD's ex posted a blog about how Bruyneel nearly killed him with a dodgy transfusion but then deleted it

You really are spending too much time there.

blazing_saddles

iainf72 wrote:

Someone on the asylum posted that a while back TD's ex posted a blog about how Bruyneel nearly killed him with a dodgy transfusion but then deleted it

I might as well drop in the joke about the fed's starting another RICO investigation...........

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

THe timing of this one

http://michaelbarry.ca/2012/09/thank-you/

is also interesting, if you recall what Flandis said

Wise move on Barry's part. He's 37, been crocked twice this year, if things blow up now for him, like Hincapie he'll no longer be an active rider. Being the author of 'Inside the US Postal Bus' - clearly not the same bus as is coming out now - wont have helped.

On the plus side, Barry does write like a dream about cycling. Those who've never read anything of his, take a look at LeMetier on michaelbarry.ca

LangerDan

Richmond Racer wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

THe timing of this one

http://michaelbarry.ca/2012/09/thank-you/

is also interesting, if you recall what Flandis said

Wise move on Barry's part. He's 37, been crocked twice this year, if things blow up now for him, like Hincapie he'll no longer be an active rider. Being the author of 'Inside the US Postal Bus' - clearly not the same bus as is coming out now - wont have helped.

On the plus side, Barry does write like a dream about cycling. Those who've never read anything of his, take a look at LeMetier on michaelbarry.ca

I suspect that despite having defended Barry against prior allegations in 2010 and 2011, Brailsford has probably had a quiet word along the lines of "you can step off the bus or be thrown under it"

+1 on Barry's writing. Good to see that his book "Le Metier" is being re-published in November.

Richmond Racer

LangerDan wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

THe timing of this one

http://michaelbarry.ca/2012/09/thank-you/

is also interesting, if you recall what Flandis said

Wise move on Barry's part. He's 37, been crocked twice this year, if things blow up now for him, like Hincapie he'll no longer be an active rider. Being the author of 'Inside the US Postal Bus' - clearly not the same bus as is coming out now - wont have helped.

On the plus side, Barry does write like a dream about cycling. Those who've never read anything of his, take a look at LeMetier on michaelbarry.ca

I suspect that despite having defended Barry against prior allegations in 2010 and 2011, Brailsford has probably had a quiet word along the lines of "you can step off the bus or be thrown under it"

+1 on Barry's writing. Good to see that his book "Le Metier" is being re-published in November.

You could be right - though rumours had been flying around that Barry was moving to Spidertech next season, that would still be another 4 months with him under contract with Sky with the dam bursting.

le_patron

All part of the 'managed confession' approach - smartest move to avoid too much flak when half his team are going to be outed anyway. Control the message and all that, surprised Clifford wasn't involved somewhere.

If I was in Tyler's 'casino' in the last 20 years and got busted at some point, I'd be frantically writing my memoirs to get some payback now. The time has never been riper.

graeme_s-2

LangerDan wrote:

I suspect that despite having defended Barry against prior allegations in 2010 and 2011, Brailsford has probably had a quiet word along the lines of "you can step off the bus or be thrown under it"

I think this is exactly why Vaughters' stance makes much more sense than Brailsford's. Vaughters' rules are you have to be able to ride fast clean, and you have to ride clean for his team. Brailsford's rules are the same as Vaughters', and also you mustn't have been caught doping (which basically means you were either stupid or unlucky).

I think that leaves much more room for Brailsford to end up with egg on his face than Vaughters without his team necessarily being any cleaner.

Richmond Racer

Graeme_S wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

I suspect that despite having defended Barry against prior allegations in 2010 and 2011, Brailsford has probably had a quiet word along the lines of "you can step off the bus or be thrown under it"

I think this is exactly why Vaughters' stance makes much more sense than Brailsford's. Vaughters' rules are you have to be able to ride fast clean, and you have to ride clean for his team. Brailsford's rules are the same as Vaughters', and also you mustn't have been caught doping (which basically means you were either stupid or unlucky).

I think that leaves much more room for Brailsford to end up with egg on his face than Vaughters without his team necessarily being any cleaner.

I think Vaughters and Garmin do have a somewhat unique situation re their backers. Doug Ellis has backed the position of hiring ex-doping riders from the start of the team. To play devil's advocate for a moment, if you're Brailsford back in 2008/09 in discussions with Sky the business to sponsor a new team (remembering how many riders have been caught between 06-08), which is going to be the 'ethos' that Sky are going to be happy with: no riders with known ex-doping backgrounds or those 'without' (i.e. have no marks again their name in terms of bans or even formatl investigations)?

Having said that I do think that Brailsford entered the Pro team world with an outlook that was, and still is to some extent, way too naive. And he needs to boot Leinders.

graeme_s-2

Richmond Racer wrote:

I think Vaughters and Garmin do have a somewhat unique situation re their backers. Doug Ellis has backed the position of hiring ex-doping riders from the start of the team. To play devil's advocate for a moment, if you're Brailsford back in 2008/09 in discussions with Sky the business to sponsor a new team (remembering how many riders have been caught between 06-08), which is going to be the 'ethos' that Sky are going to be happy with: no riders with known ex-doping backgrounds or those 'without' (i.e. have no marks again their name in terms of bans or even formatl investigations)?

Having said that I do think that Brailsford entered the Pro team world with an outlook that was, and still is to some extent, way too naive. And he needs to boot Leinders.

I can see why the Sky approach would sound less risky to a large multinational sponsor, but I think in reality it's more risky than Garmin's approach. The Sky approach would only work if we had a 100% success rate of detecting dopers and they could pick and choose who they wanted in confidence that they had always been clean. In reality we have a situation where Sky take a holier than thou attitude, refuse to sign riders in Millar's situation while signing riders who look clean, but could potentially be outed as dopers by former associates leaving the team with egg on their faces.

Richmond Racer

yeah, but perhaps this is all with the benefit of hindsight as things are playing out.

Wonder whether IAM will change their position before they launch,,,

Richmond Racer

but actually dont disagree with what you're saying, Graeme S. The situation with Millar being able to ride for GB in the Worlds but be out of consideration for Sky, has always been ludicrous, given the links, for example.