Organic Food

Headhuunter

Does anyone here specifically buy organic food? I used to until around 2009 when the fiancial crisis started to bite and bonuses weren't what they used to be. Now I shop at Lewisham market, I get the "pahnd a bowl" stuff - all class 2 fruit and veg but it saves me a bomb!

I guess my reasons for buying organic were both out of concern for my own health and exposure to chemicals and concern for the environment and the damage that chemicals used in conventional farming do to rivers etc

Anyway studies are increasingly showing that organic food has no nutritional value over standard food, although there is 30% chance of less pesticide and other residual chemicals left on organic food

Some people also argue that if you're concerned about the environment it's best to shop at farmers markets which sell produce that has travelled a very short distance whereas organic food is often flown in from halfway round the world so has a huge CO2 profile

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19465692

Does anyone go out of their way to eat organic?

dhope

Nope, fad

Headhuunter

dhope wrote:

Nope, fad

You don't believe it has any benefits at all? Clearly surveys have shown that it has no added nutritional benefit (although the Soil Association claims the studies have been flawed) but you don't believe there are any benefits at all? Absolutely zilch?

rubertoe

I'm like you HH - used to buy allot of organic, but its just too pricey these days and the class II stuff is just as good, I don't believe that there is any nutritional difference at all between a Tomato and an organic tomato of the same variety and likewise for most/all other fruit and veg.

The only difference is the premium and like you say, its often flown halfway round the world.

Only concession that i make is to buy British and seasonal.

dhope

Headhuunter wrote:

dhope wrote:

Nope, fad

You don't believe it has any benefits at all? Clearly surveys have shown that it has no added nutritional benefit (although the Soil Association claims the studies have been flawed) but you don't believe there are any benefits at all? Absolutely zilch?

My position is from a standpoint of almost absolute ignorance but I find it hard to believe that organic food does anything more than pander to people that think growing spuds in a ditch in your back garden is the best way to do it and anything else is a bastardisation of a more pure way of growing food.

Think gears vs fixed. Anyone that rides fixed is clearly a loon with their head stuck in last century ignoring any progress.

asprilla

I buy organic chicken. Tastes much better and because it's not injected with water the texture is so much better. It's also more filling.

msmancunia

I get a box of vegetables and fruit every week from Abel and Cole.

I do worry a little about pesticides but my main reason for buying it is that it just tastes better. I'm sick and tired of buying greengrocery from either the supermarket or a greengrocers (not many left around here) or the market, and having it taste of absolutely nothing because it's been grown in hothouses in Portugal or the Netherlands or wherever. A lot of what they send me is British, and in season, and that matters to me too.

Feel a little uncomfortable that it comes by van I guess, but I don't have a car, so that makes my environmental footprint smaller and I don't have to lug some substandard veg all the way home.

msmancunia

Asprilla wrote:

I buy organic chicken. Tastes much better and because it's not injected with water the texture is so much better. It's also more filling.

Me too. I stopped eating crappy cheap supermarket chicken when I realised I was getting an upset stomach every time I ate it. I couldn't even blame my cooking because I used to be a chef - just water and hormones and salt and god only knows what else they put in was making me queasy.

bigmat

Used to get Abel & Cole box but it got ridiculously pricey, same stuff week after weekand some ofit pretty rank. My wife does most of the shopping and mainly goes for organic. Main difference I can see is the lack of pesticides which is reason enough, although I think I once read that the supermarkets can sell stuff as organic if it was grown organically, even if its then sprayed with pesticides / preservatives in storage. Overall, I'm a bit cynical and I also think its quite a selfish Western concept - the developing world can't afford organic, it needs to maximise its crops just to survive. Some of it may taste better, but i think that may be because its better quality ratehr than because its organic. Take the reference to chicken above - non-organic generally tastes rank because its battery farmed then pumped with water. I do prefer ethically treated livestock but organic is not the be all and end all in that respect.

rick_chasey

Can't really see the difference to justify the price difference.

Headhuunter

It's certainly true that some organic foods taste better than non organic. I seem to remember that organic carrots taste better as well as organic chicken... organic food is very expensive though, would people buy more organic if the supermarkets etc didn't sell it as a premium product? I think I probably would

jonny_trousers

I get an Abel & Cole vegetable box every week or two, mainly because I prefer the taste to what's available in my local supermarket, organic or otherwise. I buy organic milk primarily because I have the, perhaps misguided, belief that the dairy cows will be better looked after. I've also read that organic milk is more nutritious than regular. Meat wise, I tend to buy whatever I imagine comes from farms where animal welfare is of primary consideration.

I've read reports that suggest organic food is more nutritious. I don't know whether it is or not, but i'm certain it won't be less nutritious.

jonomc4

I buy organic - is it more healthy? Well I don't believe it has any better nutritional value - but you know what, I don't feel like ingesting pesticides or chemical fertilizers. I just don't feel like taking the risk. Maybe they are not that bad for you in small doses - but I don't want a dose thank you .

Also in our family we don't eat takeaways of any kind really. The organic food my family gets also only comes only from UK - we would rather buy non organic from UK than organic from abroad - nothing to do with CO2 and all to do with freshness.

This brings us to the main reason - organic food tastes better. I would rather pay £8 for a steak that I enjoy than £4 for a bad one that I will hate - with things like steaks there is a noticeable and large difference. It may have nothing to do with the organic feed the cow gets, and everything to do with the quality of how it is kept - all I know is it tastes way better.

Headhuunter

BigMat wrote:

Used to get Abel & Cole box but it got ridiculously pricey, same stuff week after weekand some ofit pretty rank. My wife does most of the shopping and mainly goes for organic. Main difference I can see is the lack of pesticides which is reason enough, although I think I once read that the supermarkets can sell stuff as organic if it was grown organically, even if its then sprayed with pesticides / preservatives in storage. Overall, I'm a bit cynical and I also think its quite a selfish Western concept - the developing world can't afford organic, it needs to maximise its crops just to survive. Some of it may taste better, but i think that may be because its better quality ratehr than because its organic. Take the reference to chicken above - non-organic generally tastes rank because its battery farmed then pumped with water. I do prefer ethically treated livestock but organic is not the be all and end all in that respect.

I think it's true that any organic food can be sprayed with non organic pesticide once it has been picked but I guess in theory the chemicals are only on the outside and can be washed off rather than the item having been liberally bathed in chemicals since it was a seed...

You say that organic food us a selfish western concept because third world countries can't feed their enormous populations on organic food but isn't that simply because there are too many people to feed? Isn't that also selfish? If we had done kind of policy on global population control wouldn't we all be able to live within the finite limitations of the resources provided by nature?

daviesee

I don't go out of my way to buy organic but I know for a fact that there must be something in it.
My neighbour grows tomatoes and I can assure you that the taste difference is massive compared to supermarket tomatoes.
I will buy chicken depending on recipe. To go in a full blown - curry? Most chicken will do, but not the budget range, that appears to be 50% water. For roast chicken I will use the best I can source. Same for steaks. As jonomc4 said, I would rather pay £8 for a quality steak that I will enjoy than tough it out over a £4 steak, but that is down to the farmer, grass and butcher. I can't imagine a non-organic cow :?:
For the most part organic stuff would appear to be a marketing ploy.

msmancunia

Headhuunter wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Used to get Abel & Cole box but it got ridiculously pricey, same stuff week after weekand some ofit pretty rank. My wife does most of the shopping and mainly goes for organic. Main difference I can see is the lack of pesticides which is reason enough, although I think I once read that the supermarkets can sell stuff as organic if it was grown organically, even if its then sprayed with pesticides / preservatives in storage. Overall, I'm a bit cynical and I also think its quite a selfish Western concept - the developing world can't afford organic, it needs to maximise its crops just to survive. Some of it may taste better, but i think that may be because its better quality ratehr than because its organic. Take the reference to chicken above - non-organic generally tastes rank because its battery farmed then pumped with water. I do prefer ethically treated livestock but organic is not the be all and end all in that respect.

I think it's true that any organic food can be sprayed with non organic pesticide once it has been picked but I guess in theory the chemicals are only on the outside and can be washed off rather than the item having been liberally bathed in chemicals since it was a seed...

You say that organic food us a selfish western concept because third world countries can't feed their enormous populations on organic food but isn't that simply because there are too many people to feed? Isn't that also selfish? If we had done kind of policy on global population control wouldn't we all be able to live within the finite limitations of the resources provided by nature?

There's also the argument that the same area of land that a cow will be kept on could feed ten times as many people with vegetables (not sure how true it is but have heard it quoted often enough from Stella McWeirdo). So you could say that eating meat is selfish, and stop right there. And then there's the methane to consider.... So I try to have a balanced diet both nutritionally and ethically.

One thing the box has done is make me eat more vegetables (because it's there) and less meat. This was one of the reasons I started getting it - didn't have the appetite for supermarket veg, and I have to eat properly as my parents both died of bowel cancer before they hit 60 in spite of eating properly and being fit, so I have a double genetic possibility of getting it too. I probably only have meat two nights a week, fish one night a week, and the rest veggie.

I'm also wasting less - shopping for one is a bit of a pain in the supermarkets, as there are so many bogof offers etc, when all I really want is one piece of fish, or two chops etc. So the box has just prompted making me think more about what I eat, when I eat it, and what I buy.

veronese68

I don't buy organic for the sake of it. If something tastes better I may do though.
If someone is worried about the environmental impact of their food distance travelled probably has a greater impact. I remember reading about some trendy mineral water that was shipped from Bali. FFS shipping water half way round the world is truly ridiculous.

Monkeypump

msmancunia - do you think the Abel & Cole boxes are good value for one person? We used to use them (me and fiance in household), but found the contents very repetitive, and not great quality or value for money. Friends with bigger families seem to rate them though, so I had assumed it just wasn't worth it for smaller households.

These days we grow some things, know a few people with allotments (so get freebies) and top up the rest with (where possible) local and seasonal fruit/veg. We're also lucky to have a few pick-your-own farms in our area, but it's a shame these places seem to be getting rarer.

Personally I think the organic thing is a red herring, certainly with meat. As others have said, selecting meat with good provenance generally means it will taste better (but likely be more expensive). Some of it might be organic, some not, but I buy it because it has been well reared and respected while the animal was alive. As far as I'm concerned, meat is a luxury product we tend to take for granted, and battery farming reinforces this.

davmaggs

I stand to be corrected, but I don't believe that organic means chemical free at all. It is a controlled set of pesticides that can be used:

http://www.soilassociation.org/whatisor ... nicfarming

bigmat

Headhuunter wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Used to get Abel & Cole box but it got ridiculously pricey, same stuff week after weekand some ofit pretty rank. My wife does most of the shopping and mainly goes for organic. Main difference I can see is the lack of pesticides which is reason enough, although I think I once read that the supermarkets can sell stuff as organic if it was grown organically, even if its then sprayed with pesticides / preservatives in storage. Overall, I'm a bit cynical and I also think its quite a selfish Western concept - the developing world can't afford organic, it needs to maximise its crops just to survive. Some of it may taste better, but i think that may be because its better quality ratehr than because its organic. Take the reference to chicken above - non-organic generally tastes rank because its battery farmed then pumped with water. I do prefer ethically treated livestock but organic is not the be all and end all in that respect.

I think it's true that any organic food can be sprayed with non organic pesticide once it has been picked but I guess in theory the chemicals are only on the outside and can be washed off rather than the item having been liberally bathed in chemicals since it was a seed...

You say that organic food us a selfish western concept because third world countries can't feed their enormous populations on organic food but isn't that simply because there are too many people to feed? Isn't that also selfish? If we had done kind of policy on global population control wouldn't we all be able to live within the finite limitations of the resources provided by nature?

We are where we are with global population, I don't see too many quick fixes unless you want to start a few wars, introduce a few epidemics etc. Otherwise, best to make sure there is enough food to go round!

rick_chasey

I thought there was enough food to go around?

It's just it's not particularly evenly distributed.

bigmat

As far as organic meat tasting better goes, the best steaks I have ever tasted (by a distance) were in Argentina and I'm fairly sure those cows were on more clenbuterol than Contador!

bompington

I'm fairly sure that GM veg is more nutritious :twisted:
As for taste, I wonder how organic would compare in proper blind tests?

msmancunia

Monkeypump -

I don't think it's particularly bad value = I get the one to two person one with 5 veg (inc potatoes) and 3 fruit and it's £12. Occasionally I might get something that's not the freshest - it was rather limp celery this week so it made soup, but generally it's pretty good. So last week I got a bag of potatoes, onions, cherry tomatoes, pointed cabbage and purple carrots, and then bananas, plums and really nice apples. Even though I live in a big city, I've either only got the choice of really expensive organic stuff from supermarkets, or non organic, watery stuff from the supermarkets or market - very little tastes of anything. The sheer presence of Tescos in North Manchester means that off the top of my head I can't actually think of an independent greengrocers that I'd use - they've just all gone.

SimonAH

We've got a fella up the road who sells out of a small industrial unit - almost just a lock-up. All proper farmers market stuff, all fresh as a young Will Smith and cheap as you like.

Singing "Moving to the country, gonna eat me a lot of peaches"

il_principe

Headhuunter wrote:

dhope wrote:

Nope, fad

You don't believe it has any benefits at all? Clearly surveys have shown that it has no added nutritional benefit (although the Soil Association claims the studies have been flawed) but you don't believe there are any benefits at all? Absolutely zilch?

The soil association have a vested interest in all this and are bound to complain.

Organic is nothing more than a very, very clever marketing ploy. This health thing comes up every few years, there have been numerous studies and so far not a single literature review has uncovered any empirically validated evidence that eating organic is healthier. I flatly refuse to buy anything organic, although I do buy free range chicken.

Paulie W

Organic isn't really anything to do with taste - it's just about the growing process. More important is the variety that is being grown, how the veg has been stored (and for how long) and how it's transported. It's perfectly possible to grow Elsanta strawberries organically but they'd still be tasteless.

veronese68

Isn't all meat and veg organic? It still irritates me. With all the pedants on here I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned it.

rick_chasey

Veronese68 wrote:

Isn't all meat and veg organic?

You obviously don't watch enough porn.

Headhuunter

Il Principe wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

dhope wrote:

Nope, fad

You don't believe it has any benefits at all? Clearly surveys have shown that it has no added nutritional benefit (although the Soil Association claims the studies have been flawed) but you don't believe there are any benefits at all? Absolutely zilch?

The soil association have a vested interest in all this and are bound to complain.

Organic is nothing more than a very, very clever marketing ploy. This health thing comes up every few years, there have been numerous studies and so far not a single literature review has uncovered any empirically validated evidence that eating organic is healthier. I flatly refuse to buy anything organic, although I do buy free range chicken.

Why are you so sure that there is no health benefit? I had a friend with cancer and doctors actually advised her to eat organic so they clearly believed there was some kind of benefit. Why do you buy organic chicken if there is no benefit?

DonDaddyD

Il Principe wrote:

I flatly refuse to buy anything organic, although I do buy free range chicken.

Same. I tend not to buy stuff that has been sprayed with pestercides or injected with artificial somethings. That said, the Organic garlic morrisons is more garlicy than the non Organic stuff.

On chickens: Free range isn't Organic. I prefer Chickens (I only buy British sourced) that have been allowed to 'perch and play' or corn fed (given the skin a yellow tint) if I'm feeling flush. But Organic? No, that's just overpriced.