Best example of "The bad old days"

takethehighroad

Riis at Hautacam 96

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDCGSsOaLDA

Can anyone improve on this for an example of the best use of PEDs in cycling?

mfin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og76z4kGMQU&feature=related

Same thing but with Phil n Paul usual rubbish

mfin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6DmNMGEuI0

Same climb is my favourite, Lance on the Hautacam 2000... ridiculous when you see everyone else struggling, even a loaded Pantani (i accept not at his best), and out of the saddle again and again, going past people so easily its unbelievable.

Sherwen even comes out with 'unbelievable' and comes out with the crap about post cancer weight too.

dave_1

2 of Lance's best EPO attacks. Ventoux crossing the gap to Pantani..made ventoux look more like a track sprint in a velodrome...his on the drop sprinter kick across to Marco, then Alpe Du Huez 2001 where he seems to stand up and sprint for near a minute constantly..and again the kick away from Ullrich was hilarous, looking back you knew in your gut it wasn't normal, and his other super human effort...I'll leave to you...

shockedsoshocked

Ullrich, Arcalis, 97. Average about 500w for the duration IIRC. But he did drop Pantani, Virenque, Riis etc, so it's still pretty epic.

dave_1

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Ullrich, Arcalis, 97. Average about 500w for the duration IIRC. But he did drop Pantani, Virenque, Riis etc, so it's still pretty epic.

yes, I would put big Jan's Arcalis win on the podium. How about the best of the 3 big names..Lance, Marco and Jan? Not fair to leave Marco out of this

shockedsoshocked

Could include his Olympic RR victory too when he told Kloedi and Vino pretty much exactly when he was going to drop them.

dave_1

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Could include his Olympic RR victory too when he told Kloedi and Vino pretty much exactly when he was going to drop them.

for me the best of that era is Indurain , La Plgane 1995, Lance ventoux 2000 and Pantani 1998 on the Galibier, Ullrich 1997. The best of the 4 is a tough one..but all were surely thanks to the syringe

phreak

I forget the name of the climb, but in the '99 Giro, Pantani had a mechanical at the bottom of the climb, stopped to fix it, sprinted back up to the leaders who had attacked him anyway, then ended up dropping them all before the top.

disgruntledgoat

The time trial Rick Verbrugge won at the Giro... his average speed was about 55kmh. I think its still the fastest GT time trial.

See also George Hincapie at Plat D'Adet

Yellow Peril

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Ullrich, Arcalis, 97. Average about 500w for the duration IIRC. But he did drop Pantani, Virenque, Riis etc, so it's still pretty epic.

^
This.It looks absolutley ridiculous.

On the Riis/Hautacam climb Paul is able to use his "put the hammer down phrase" which he usually reserves for sprints these days. How times change...

dabber

phreak wrote:

I forget the name of the climb, but in the '99 Giro, Pantani had a mechanical at the bottom of the climb, stopped to fix it, sprinted back up to the leaders who had attacked him anyway, then ended up dropping them all before the top.

The Oropa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-J2bIsPDH8

Always worth another viewing.

Mccaria

Can we have a special award for best collective use of PEDs ?

I nominate the TDF 2003 team time trial won by US postal. Total distance of 69km, US postal finished the event with all 9 riders (including the specialist climbers there to help LA in the mountains), beating the formidable ONCE squad by 30 seconds. As they came into the final kilometre the team were smiling and chatting.

Quote of the day. Hincapie "I had amazing legs today..... I was recovering so fast after I hit the front". Yes

If you are interested. Here is Ferrari's take on the 2003 tour, wih some interesting VAMs. Special mention for Virenque, Hamilton and Armstrong !

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2 ... ferrari031

Yellow Peril

Quite a timely thread this. There has been lots of disappointment aired on the forum about a lack of attacks from a distance out and all of the action being condensed into the last few minutes of a stage on recent GT's. Some people really need to manage their expectations, I like it the way it is now.

milton50

Mccaria wrote:

If you are interested. Here is Ferrari's take on the 2003 tour, wih some interesting VAMs.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2 ... ferrari031

Worringly the VAMs he mentions are nothing amazing when compared to what Wiggins reckons he achieved on the Col du Joux-Plane in the Dauphine. Maybe the difference is that Armstrong & co. were doing it day after day.

MrTapir

Dabber wrote:

phreak wrote:

I forget the name of the climb, but in the '99 Giro, Pantani had a mechanical at the bottom of the climb, stopped to fix it, sprinted back up to the leaders who had attacked him anyway, then ended up dropping them all before the top.

The Oropa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-J2bIsPDH8

Always worth another viewing.

Is it Chiapucci at the front of the big group about 1:56? And Jalabert in the French jersey? That is quite an incredible video.

I'm quite glad that its not like that anymore, its like the cycling equivalent of Rocky IV.

pb21

Contador vs Rasmussen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WRqxW9Jyt8

FJS

The 1994 Fleche Wallonne Gewiss Ballan team 1-2-3 .
That was the race after which Ferrari, their team doctor, made his EPO is no more dangerous than orange juice comment

rick_chasey

Dave_1 wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Ullrich, Arcalis, 97. Average about 500w for the duration IIRC. But he did drop Pantani, Virenque, Riis etc, so it's still pretty epic.

yes, I would put big Jan's Arcalis win on the podium. How about the best of the 3 big names..Lance, Marco and Jan? Not fair to leave Marco out of this

The '97 alp was something special too.

Vaughters was saying he sees '97 as the peak of doping missuse.

rick_chasey

Thinking about it it's quite sad really.

'98 was the first year I started watching.

I fell in love with what turns out to be massively dope fueled racing.

RichN95.

Milton50 wrote:

Mccaria wrote:

If you are interested. Here is Ferrari's take on the 2003 tour, wih some interesting VAMs.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2 ... ferrari031

Worringly the VAMs he mentions are nothing amazing when compared to what Wiggins reckons he achieved on the Col du Joux-Plane in the Dauphine. Maybe the difference is that Armstrong & co. were doing it day after day.

Wiggins was three or four minutes slower than the record times on Joux Plane. VAM makes for poor comparisons on different climbs. They are as much a reflection of the steepness of the climb as the performance of the rider.

milton50

RichN95 wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

Mccaria wrote:

If you are interested. Here is Ferrari's take on the 2003 tour, wih some interesting VAMs.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2 ... ferrari031

Worringly the VAMs he mentions are nothing amazing when compared to what Wiggins reckons he achieved on the Col du Joux-Plane in the Dauphine. Maybe the difference is that Armstrong & co. were doing it day after day.

Wiggins was three or four minutes slower than the record times on Joux Plane. VAM makes for poor comparisons on different climbs. They are as much a reflection of the steepness of the climb as the performance of the rider.

Good to hear.

Richmond Racer

RichN95 wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

Mccaria wrote:

If you are interested. Here is Ferrari's take on the 2003 tour, wih some interesting VAMs.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2 ... ferrari031

Worringly the VAMs he mentions are nothing amazing when compared to what Wiggins reckons he achieved on the Col du Joux-Plane in the Dauphine. Maybe the difference is that Armstrong & co. were doing it day after day.

Wiggins was three or four minutes slower than the record times on Joux Plane. VAM makes for poor comparisons on different climbs. They are as much a reflection of the steepness of the climb as the performance of the rider.

The Science of Sport website is a good place to go for analysis. They posted a very interesting analysis of the Tour's performance in the mountains, which makes for encouraging reading for everyone wanting signs that the sport is moving on from the 'bad old days'

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/07 ... ssion.html

When asked about VAM, the poster's response is
'Thanks. I've looked at VAM in the past. Back on Contador's years, I used VAM and SRM and calculations based on gradient to kind of validate one power output against the next. The problem with VAM was that I was never 100% confident about the a) length of the climb, or b) change in altitude. I remember once measuring a climb and working out a change in altitude of about 860m over 11.2km, whereas others were saying it was 810m over 11.4km, and it obviously gives totally different VAM and thus estimated power outputs!

So there was that inconsistency, made me question its reliability! But on principle, no issue with them at all, I just never know what 'input data' to use!'

slim_boy_fat

RichN95 wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

Mccaria wrote:

If you are interested. Here is Ferrari's take on the 2003 tour, wih some interesting VAMs.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2 ... ferrari031

Worringly the VAMs he mentions are nothing amazing when compared to what Wiggins reckons he achieved on the Col du Joux-Plane in the Dauphine. Maybe the difference is that Armstrong & co. were doing it day after day.

Wiggins was three or four minutes slower than the record times on Joux Plane. VAM makes for poor comparisons on different climbs. They are as much a reflection of the steepness of the climb as the performance of the rider.

Vaughters said something similar on twitter the other day. VAM are not reliable, w/kg is the much better comparison. Vaughters retweets a lot from this guy @ammattipyoraily who gives figures from various climbs on a regular basis.

shinyhelmut

Miguel indurain into Liege in 1995. The overall favourite riding off the front of the peloton and gaining nearly a minute on a flat stage then gifting the sprint to bruyneel.

greasedscotsman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34AY5epn ... re=related

cougie

What was that climb that Ricco and his team mate came 1 and 2 on, and they werent even breathing hard at the top ? I think he got busted shortly after.

rick_chasey

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Miguel indurain into Liege in 1995. The overall favourite riding off the front of the peloton and gaining nearly a minute on a flat stage then gifting the sprint to bruyneel.

Isn't that Indurain attack preceded by a Bruyneel move which Armstrong in his 1 day specialist guise follows??

Bet neither of them thought how they'd shape each other's lives then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eItUnGS ... age#t=651s

jonginge

cougie wrote:

What was that climb that Ricco and his team mate came 1 and 2 on, and they werent even breathing hard at the top ? I think he got busted shortly after.

hautacam 2008? That was piepoli and cobo. Piepoli looked easy, cobo not so much

TheBigBean

Rick Chasey wrote:

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Miguel indurain into Liege in 1995. The overall favourite riding off the front of the peloton and gaining nearly a minute on a flat stage then gifting the sprint to bruyneel.

Isn't that Indurain attack preceded by a Bruyneel move which Armstrong in his 1 day specialist guise follows??

Bet neither of them thought how they'd shape each other's lives then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eItUnGS ... age#t=651s

Slightly more impartial commentary on Armstrong than we have heard in recent times.

rick_chasey

Crazy that Indurain could ride like that in '95, and a year later collapse.