Stupid idea?

Feltup
Feltup Posts: 1,340
edited September 2012 in Commuting chat
Legalise riding on the pavement, it typically isn't enforced anyway. The stipulation is that in a collision between a cyclist and a pedestrian the cyclist is assumed to be at fault unless they can prove otherwise.
Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

Felt F55 - 2007
Specialized Singlecross - 2008
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Peugeot Tourmalet - 1983 - taken more hits than Mohammed Ali
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Comments

  • What's the point? Pavements are the worst place to ride a bike, it baffles me why anyone would want to tbh.
    '12 CAAD 8 Tiagra
  • Koncordski
    Koncordski Posts: 1,009
    Stupid idea? Yes.

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  • Feltup
    Feltup Posts: 1,340
    Care to elaborate? Any thoughts? You know involving thinking?
    Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

    Felt F55 - 2007
    Specialized Singlecross - 2008
    Marin Rift Zone - 1998
    Peugeot Tourmalet - 1983 - taken more hits than Mohammed Ali
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,283
    I think we should legalise riding without a helmet. Same stipulation - in a collision between a cyclist and anything else the cyclist is assumed to be at fault unless they can prove otherwise.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    Feltup wrote:
    Care to elaborate? Any thoughts? You know involving thinking?
    I would like cars to think we belong on the road rather than thinking that we belong on the pavement. I wouldn't cycle above walking pace on a pavement generally so I'd just as soon push it.
    Just don't see any benefit to it.
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  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    I think its a great idea. Im starting a facebook petition.
  • Feltup
    Feltup Posts: 1,340
    @ corporate camper - because thousands of people cycle on the pavements and nobody does anything about it but if the law says fine do that but beware if you knock someone down then you are liable unless you can prove the pedestrian jumped in front of you then that might make some people think. There again maybe it won't! That is the reason for the question to elicit debate.
    Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

    Felt F55 - 2007
    Specialized Singlecross - 2008
    Marin Rift Zone - 1998
    Peugeot Tourmalet - 1983 - taken more hits than Mohammed Ali
  • Feltup
    Feltup Posts: 1,340
    For the record I get cheesed off with adults riding down the pavement and forcing me out of the way but maybe they wouldn't if they were presumed to be liable in a collision.

    I would prefer it if all cyclists used the road. I dislike most of the segregated cycle lanes.
    Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

    Felt F55 - 2007
    Specialized Singlecross - 2008
    Marin Rift Zone - 1998
    Peugeot Tourmalet - 1983 - taken more hits than Mohammed Ali
  • Feltup wrote:
    @ corporate camper - because thousands of people cycle on the pavements and nobody does anything about it but if the law says fine do that but beware if you knock someone down then you are liable unless you can prove the pedestrian jumped in front of you then that might make some people think. There again maybe it won't! That is the reason for the question to elicit debate.

    http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/9888270.Twelve_cyclists_fined_for_cycling_on_Headington_pavements/
    They do sometimes do something about it.

    As a cyclist I don't think bikes should be on the pavement, as a pedestrian I don't think bikes should be on the pavement. So I'd vote "No" and be in favour of more PSCO's dishing out fines.
    '12 CAAD 8 Tiagra
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,283
    If someone is being a knob on the pavement by riding on the pavement, forcing people to get out of the way or stop while they plough through, at the moment you can legitimately tell them to get off or get on the road.

    If you legalise it then all you can do is say "Hooray, he didn't hit anyone! Carry on!"

    The same people would be riding on the pavements. They would be doing it in a more annoying way. It's a terrible idea.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • The topic title suggests you know the answer to the question without the need for debate.

    For the record; it's a stupid idea, except maybe for young children.
  • Wunnunda
    Wunnunda Posts: 214
    I'm not a fan of law that is never enforced but it does serve to draw a line in the sand. Scrapping the law would just legitimise pavement riders, who would then have 'rights'. As we all know there are a significant monority of us who behave like eejits and I'd hate to have them let loose on pedestrians.
  • Feltup
    Feltup Posts: 1,340
    As has been summised I am playing devils advocate here so here goes:-

    There is no budget for more PCO's etc to police this so it won't improve. Yes a tiny number might get a slap on the wrist each year but 99.9% won't.

    "great he didn't hit anyone" - so what is the problem? Cars and trucks go flying past near pedestrians without hitting them too.

    BTW has anyone been brave enough to tell someone to get off the pavement?
    Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

    Felt F55 - 2007
    Specialized Singlecross - 2008
    Marin Rift Zone - 1998
    Peugeot Tourmalet - 1983 - taken more hits than Mohammed Ali
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    Feltup wrote:
    As has been summised I am playing devils advocate here so here goes:-

    There is no budget for more PCO's etc to police this so it won't improve. Yes a tiny number might get a slap on the wrist each year but 99.9% won't.

    "great he didn't hit anyone" - so what is the problem? Cars and trucks go flying past near pedestrians without hitting them too.

    BTW has anyone been brave enough to tell someone to get off the pavement?

    I'm happy that it wont improve, but if you write into the law that people should hop into and off the pavements when they choose then it'd get worse.
    It's finding a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist and would provide no benefit whatsoever.
    imho.
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  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,283
    Feltup wrote:
    "great he didn't hit anyone" - so what is the problem? Cars and trucks go flying past near pedestrians without hitting them too.

    BTW has anyone been brave enough to tell someone to get off the pavement?

    Haha! Cars and trucks go flying past without hitting people because they are on the road. Whilst the pedestrians are on... the pavement. See the problem with using this to back up your point?

    I've told people to get off the pavement. Not often mind. Usually people on the pavement are pootling along happily and giving way, so who cares. But if someones being a dick and no one tells them (or even, legalise it!), they start to think it's ok.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Feltup
    Feltup Posts: 1,340
    dHope - I am pretty much in agreement with you there but do think that the people who would do this are already doing this. So is there anything that can be done to make things better?
    Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

    Felt F55 - 2007
    Specialized Singlecross - 2008
    Marin Rift Zone - 1998
    Peugeot Tourmalet - 1983 - taken more hits than Mohammed Ali
  • Feltup
    Feltup Posts: 1,340
    "Haha! Cars and trucks go flying past without hitting people because they are on the road. Whilst the pedestrians are on... the pavement. See the problem with using this to back up your point?"

    The separating distances can easily be the same even if the vehicles are on the road. I have had wing mirrors nearly hit me when I have been on the pavement and the vehicle was on the road but it is OK because they missed me :wink:
    Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

    Felt F55 - 2007
    Specialized Singlecross - 2008
    Marin Rift Zone - 1998
    Peugeot Tourmalet - 1983 - taken more hits than Mohammed Ali
  • t4tomo
    t4tomo Posts: 2,643
    Feltup wrote:
    BTW has anyone been brave enough to tell someone to get off the pavement?
    yesterday lunchtime as I walked down to the bank, roadie in full lycra riding at a reasonable lick. I assume he was taking a short cut up one block as he was riding towards oncoming traffic (and presumably turning right at the next junction). that said there were hardly any cars, he could easily have crossed to the other side of the road and then queued at the lights to turn right.

    "get on the road" were my exact words.



    To the OP: for the record its a very stupid idea.
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  • Feltup
    Feltup Posts: 1,340
    ""get on the road" were my exact words." Good on you, I think most would tut!
    Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

    Felt F55 - 2007
    Specialized Singlecross - 2008
    Marin Rift Zone - 1998
    Peugeot Tourmalet - 1983 - taken more hits than Mohammed Ali
  • gtvlusso
    gtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    Yeah - it is a stupid idea;

    Scenario:

    I live on a hill in a end of terrace house. My front door opens into an allley that we own, the alley goes to the back gate and directly onto the pavement on the downhill slope of the house. There is no area between the front of my house and the pavement - so, the alley entrance cannot be seen if you are approaching downhill on the pavement. So, then junior is let out or the dog is let out, they are almost immediately on the pavement appearing out of a blind alleyway to anything oncoming down the hill.

    So, said f*cking tosspot pavement cyclist is barreling down the hill on the pavement, junior/dog/buggy appears out of the alleyway onto the pavement, no warning for the pavement cyclist - bang, very seriously injured child.

    The above scenario has happened numerous times with idiots on bikes flying down the pavement.....we appear out of alleyway into oncoming bike = diving out of the way and allot of shouting.

    Pavements are a safe haven for all types of pedestrian; kids, little children, pets, buggies - it is where we teach road safety and road awareness to children - don't f*cking ride on the f*cking pavements......whether it is legal or not - anyone who rides on the pavement is a cnut and should have their feet cut off, IMHO.

    Please do not respond with the "well you could sue the cyclist as it would be their fault" - I would rather not have my daughter exposed to an idiotic and potentially life changing injury by some being to much of a pussy to ride on the road. And lest be honest, how many cyclist who ride on the pavement would stop and see if everything was okay?!
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,283
    gtvlusso wrote:
    And lest be honest, how many cyclist who ride on the pavement would stop and see if everything was okay?!

    That's why you need to take their license plate no before they scarper!

    (I agree with you)
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • gtvlusso
    gtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    pangolin wrote:
    gtvlusso wrote:
    And lest be honest, how many cyclist who ride on the pavement would stop and see if everything was okay?!

    That's why you need to take their license plate no before they scarper!

    (I agree with you)

    Cyclists; bunch of tax dodging, pavement riding, red light jumping w4nkers.....

    :D
  • Feltup
    Feltup Posts: 1,340
    GTV - best answer of the day. Glad you held back on your feelings towards the F@cking T@sspot Pavement riders. Notice I don't use the word cyclist when I describe them. I think the scarper point is the key fact here much like uninsured drivers etc.
    Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

    Felt F55 - 2007
    Specialized Singlecross - 2008
    Marin Rift Zone - 1998
    Peugeot Tourmalet - 1983 - taken more hits than Mohammed Ali
  • gtvlusso
    gtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    Feltup wrote:
    GTV - best answer of the day. Glad you held back on your feelings towards the F@cking T@sspot Pavement riders. Notice I don't use the word cyclist when I describe them. I think the scarper point is the key fact here much like uninsured drivers etc.

    I likes what I says and I says what I likes :D

    The incredible thing is that I know of a senior manager in a major corporation who only ever rides on the pavements, he is too scared to ride on the road - by his own admission. So, this is not just down to chav tw@ts on a nicked mountain bikes or teenagers who are mildly retarded....personally, I think the law should be enforced and I have seen it enforced occasionally in Bristol.

    I have also been staggered by the amazing amount of commuters that thing that they can mount the pavement to jump a light, use a ped crossing or avoid traffic/roadworks - no, no, no! Stay on the road and grow a pair!!!

    Cycling on the pavement is the kind of activity reserved for pedophiles.
  • davmaggs
    davmaggs Posts: 1,008
    The topic title suggests you know the answer to the question without the need for debate.

    For the record; it's a stupid idea, except maybe for young children.

    +1

    By the logic of the question you should campaign to allow cars to be driven on the pavement, after all its only a drama if someone gets hit!
  • bails87
    bails87 Posts: 12,998
    davmaggs wrote:
    The topic title suggests you know the answer to the question without the need for debate.

    For the record; it's a stupid idea, except maybe for young children.

    +1

    By the logic of the question you should campaign to allow cars to be driven on the pavement, after all its only a drama if someone gets hit!
    That's near enough legal anyway. All those cars parked with two wheels on the pavement didn't levitate, after all.


    I agree though, stupid idea, enforce the laws we've got instead.
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    gtvlusso wrote:
    Yeah - it is a stupid idea;

    Pavements are a safe haven for all types of pedestrian; kids, little children, pets, buggies - it is where we teach road safety and road awareness to children - don't f*cking ride on the f*cking pavements......whether it is legal or not - anyone who rides on the pavement is a cnut and should have their feet cut off, IMHO.
    Glad you see it so black and white ...

    Is there not a 1/2way house here?

    Built up areas with homes/shops & pavements = no cycling unless marked as shared resource. This is where you're likely to get your kids, pets, buggies etc ...
    Away from these areas the pavement traffic is far less and with vehicles often being delimited there is an argument that it is safer for the slower cyclist to be out of their way ...

    How many here would admit to riding on a pavement occasionally? I do. You might say it's selfish, but if I haven't inconvenienced anyone then why does it matter?
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,283
    gtvlusso wrote:
    Cycling on the pavement is the kind of activity reserved for pedophiles.
    Slowbike wrote:
    How many here would admit to riding on a pavement occasionally? I do.

    GET HIM!
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    pangolin wrote:
    gtvlusso wrote:
    Cycling on the pavement is the kind of activity reserved for pedophiles.
    Slowbike wrote:
    How many here would admit to riding on a pavement occasionally? I do.

    GET HIM!
    you'll have to catch me first .... ;)
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,283
    I tried to chase him but he escaped onto a pavement :(
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono