Liggett re Armstrong

Yellow Peril

I think we should all take comfort from the fact that, as in his cycling commentary, whatever Phil says usually the opposite is correct.

LangerDan

ThomThom wrote:

Fantastic letter to Mr. LIggett:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/ ... ess-indeed

Liggett is a stain, but I'm not sure why Ashenden rowed in - this particular brawl isn't his. He does seem to like see himself in print, though.

derbygrimpeur

"500 controls"

derbygrimpeur

ThomThom wrote:

Gazzetta67 wrote:

There must be a pic of Pat mcQuaid or verbruggen as well or is it just McQuaid's brother Darragh that gets ushered around in the radioshack car by bruyneel ??

good skills

lostboysaint

Seen David Millars tweet? "Everybody should watch the @PhilLiggett interview. For me he is not the "Voice of Cycling". "

Speaks volumes.

disgruntledgoat

More worrying for me was the guy from Holewesko Partners tweeting that that kind of thing puts him off as a fan and a sponsor.

polocini

After seeing all the anti Liggett stuff on twitter I've just watched the video and well it's hardly shocking. From the vitriol on twitter and outrage you'd think he had melted down. He's just saying exactly what you would expect him to say. I couldn't give a toss about the politics or personal opinion of Liggett he's been up Lance's arse for years. He needs sacking because his commentary is appalling and has been for a long time. It seems that Internet witch hunts/bandwagons crop up because it's fashionable to jump on something stupid a person has said. Liggett has been taking crap for years and no one could be arsed before.

AL

rick_chasey

Polocini wrote:

After seeing all the anti Liggett stuff on twitter I've just watched the video and well it's hardly shocking. From the vitriol on twitter and outrage you'd think he had melted down. He's just saying exactly what you would expect him to say. I couldn't give a toss about the politics or personal opinion of Liggett he's been up Lance's ars* for years. He needs sacking because his commentary is appalling and has been for a long time. It seems that Internet witch hunts/bandwagons crop up because it's fashionable to jump on something stupid a person has said. Liggett has been taking crap for years and no one could be arsed before.

AL

It's mainly because for Americans he IS the gateway to cycling.

Brits have been watching Eurosport for quite a while now.

disgruntledgoat

Polocini wrote:

After seeing all the anti Liggett stuff on twitter I've just watched the video and well it's hardly shocking. From the vitriol on twitter and outrage you'd think he had melted down. He's just saying exactly what you would expect him to say. I couldn't give a toss about the politics or personal opinion of Liggett he's been up Lance's ars* for years. He needs sacking because his commentary is appalling and has been for a long time. It seems that Internet witch hunts/bandwagons crop up because it's fashionable to jump on something stupid a person has said. Liggett has been taking crap for years and no one could be arsed before.

AL

That and the libel.

And the "I know a bloke who knows a bloke"

and the "why are USADA doing this?!" erm... cos it's their job?

Richmond Racer

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Polocini wrote:

After seeing all the anti Liggett stuff on twitter I've just watched the video and well it's hardly shocking. From the vitriol on twitter and outrage you'd think he had melted down. He's just saying exactly what you would expect him to say. I couldn't give a toss about the politics or personal opinion of Liggett he's been up Lance's ars* for years. He needs sacking because his commentary is appalling and has been for a long time. It seems that Internet witch hunts/bandwagons crop up because it's fashionable to jump on something stupid a person has said. Liggett has been taking crap for years and no one could be arsed before.

AL

That and the libel.

And the "I know a bloke who knows a bloke"

and the "why are USADA doing this?!" erm... cos it's their job?

+ the claim that Lance being able to cure cancer just with the power of his voice, has hit a massive nerve

ddraver

Polocini wrote:

After seeing all the anti Liggett stuff on twitter I've just watched the video and well it's hardly shocking. From the vitriol on twitter and outrage you'd think he had melted down. He's just saying exactly what you would expect him to say. I couldn't give a toss about the politics or personal opinion of Liggett he's been up Lance's ars* for years. He needs sacking because his commentary is appalling and has been for a long time. It seems that Internet witch hunts/bandwagons crop up because it's fashionable to jump on something stupid a person has said. Liggett has been taking crap for years and no one could be arsed before.

AL

True, but there have been only shrugs, groans and rolled eyes about the slow decline in the ommentary whereas this is a signed framed declaration that he does nt know about the sport any more!

Can you imagine Lawro or Alan Green getting a discussion about a football scandal so catastrophically wrong on air?

rick_chasey

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Polocini wrote:

After seeing all the anti Liggett stuff on twitter I've just watched the video and well it's hardly shocking. From the vitriol on twitter and outrage you'd think he had melted down. He's just saying exactly what you would expect him to say. I couldn't give a toss about the politics or personal opinion of Liggett he's been up Lance's ars* for years. He needs sacking because his commentary is appalling and has been for a long time. It seems that Internet witch hunts/bandwagons crop up because it's fashionable to jump on something stupid a person has said. Liggett has been taking crap for years and no one could be arsed before.

AL

That and the libel.

And the "I know a bloke who knows a bloke"

and the "why are USADA doing this?!" erm... cos it's their job?

I think asking why USADA are doing this now is a legitimate question and one I'd like to hear them answer.

lostboysaint

ddraver wrote:

Polocini wrote:

After seeing all the anti Liggett stuff on twitter I've just watched the video and well it's hardly shocking. From the vitriol on twitter and outrage you'd think he had melted down. He's just saying exactly what you would expect him to say. I couldn't give a toss about the politics or personal opinion of Liggett he's been up Lance's ars* for years. He needs sacking because his commentary is appalling and has been for a long time. It seems that Internet witch hunts/bandwagons crop up because it's fashionable to jump on something stupid a person has said. Liggett has been taking crap for years and no one could be arsed before.

AL

True, but there have been only shrugs, groans and rolled eyes about the slow decline in the ommentary whereas this is a signed framed declaration that he does nt know about the sport any more!

Can you imagine Lawro or Alan Green getting a discussion about a football scandal so catastrophically wrong on air?

You sort of shot yourself in the foot with the last paragraph/question.

pb21

Rick Chasey wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Polocini wrote:

After seeing all the anti Liggett stuff on twitter I've just watched the video and well it's hardly shocking. From the vitriol on twitter and outrage you'd think he had melted down. He's just saying exactly what you would expect him to say. I couldn't give a toss about the politics or personal opinion of Liggett he's been up Lance's ars* for years. He needs sacking because his commentary is appalling and has been for a long time. It seems that Internet witch hunts/bandwagons crop up because it's fashionable to jump on something stupid a person has said. Liggett has been taking crap for years and no one could be arsed before.

AL

That and the libel.

And the "I know a bloke who knows a bloke"

and the "why are USADA doing this?!" erm... cos it's their job?

I think asking why USADA are doing this now is a legitimate question and one I'd like to hear them answer.

Isn't it because they recently just got the 'evidence'?

RichN95.

Polocini wrote:

After seeing all the anti Liggett stuff on twitter I've just watched the video and well it's hardly shocking. From the vitriol on twitter and outrage you'd think he had melted down. He's just saying exactly what you would expect him to say. I couldn't give a toss about the politics or personal opinion of Liggett he's been up Lance's ars* for years. He needs sacking because his commentary is appalling and has been for a long time. It seems that Internet witch hunts/bandwagons crop up because it's fashionable to jump on something stupid a person has said. Liggett has been taking crap for years and no one could be arsed before.

AL

It's interesting how readily those that villified Armstrong for blacklisting, intimidating and smearing his opponents are to reach for the exact same tactics now.

No_Ta_Doctor

disgruntledgoat wrote:

More worrying for me was the guy from Holewesko Partners tweeting that that kind of thing puts him off as a fan and a sponsor.

No, that's brilliant. He's being put off not by the "Lance revelations" (the thing everyone keeps telling us could kill cycling if we don't hush it up) but by the way certain people are trying to cover up. That's the only clear message from any sponsor I've yet seen.

FJS

Rick Chasey wrote:

I think asking why USADA are doing this now is a legitimate question and one I'd like to hear them answer.

I don't always follow this kind of stuff too meticulously, but what was first, Tyler's decision to write a book or USADA's decision to prosecute?

rick_chasey

pb21 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Polocini wrote:

After seeing all the anti Liggett stuff on twitter I've just watched the video and well it's hardly shocking. From the vitriol on twitter and outrage you'd think he had melted down. He's just saying exactly what you would expect him to say. I couldn't give a toss about the politics or personal opinion of Liggett he's been up Lance's ars* for years. He needs sacking because his commentary is appalling and has been for a long time. It seems that Internet witch hunts/bandwagons crop up because it's fashionable to jump on something stupid a person has said. Liggett has been taking crap for years and no one could be arsed before.

AL

That and the libel.

And the "I know a bloke who knows a bloke"

and the "why are USADA doing this?!" erm... cos it's their job?

I think asking why USADA are doing this now is a legitimate question and one I'd like to hear them answer.

Isn't it because they recently just got the 'evidence'?

I'm not sure. If it is, I'd like them to say so.

disgruntledgoat

@Rick

My guess, and it is a guess, is that USADA will have sat in on, or taken testimony from the FDA investigation and used that.

@Rich

Who is smearing Ligget? It's from his own mouth... a whole load of hearsay that he if he can substantiate, he should take to the police rather than the radio.

ddraver

@Rick - I think DG is close but I'd guess that the GJ got people talking under the threat of perjury adn then they found out how nice it was to stop living the lie - When USADA came calling they were ready to speak openly for the first time. I think it's taken this long for the Omerta to crumble enough basically...

RichN95.

disgruntledgoat wrote:

@Rick

My guess, and it is a guess, is that USADA will have sat in on, or taken testimony from the FDA investigation and used that.

@Rich

Who is smearing Ligget? It's from his own mouth... a whole load of hearsay that he if he can substantiate, he should take to the police rather than the radio.

maybe not smearing yet but I've seen elsewhere people suggesting campaigns to have him sacked from jobs such as his voluntary job with CTC - pure Armstrong tactics of intimidation and vengeance.
I don't just mean Liggett. It goes beyond him.

disgruntledgoat

RichN95 wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

@Rick

My guess, and it is a guess, is that USADA will have sat in on, or taken testimony from the FDA investigation and used that.

@Rich

Who is smearing Ligget? It's from his own mouth... a whole load of hearsay that he if he can substantiate, he should take to the police rather than the radio.

maybe not smearing yet but I've seen elsewhere people suggesting campaigns to have him sacked from jobs such as his voluntary job with CTC - pure Armstrong tactics of intimidation and vengeance.

For the record, Ligget can work anywhere he likes, I don't begrudge anyone their crazy views and think that people should be free to beleive whatever nonsense they like without having certain jobs proscribed.

Richmond Racer

ddraver wrote:

@Rick - I think DG is close but I'd guess that the GJ got people talking under the threat of perjury adn then they found out how nice it was to stop living the lie - When USADA came calling they were ready to speak openly for the first time. I think it's taken this long for the Omerta to crumble enough basically...

This. Plus perhaps the not-insigificant factor that there were a number of them talking now. For the first time it wouldn't just be a single guy left hanging in the wind (which has certainly been the case before).

greg66_tri_v2.0

ddraver wrote:

@Rick - I think DG is close but I'd guess that the GJ got people talking under the threat of perjury adn then they found out how nice it was to stop living the lie - When USADA came calling they were ready to speak openly for the first time. I think it's taken this long for the Omerta to crumble enough basically...

I suspect Rick's point is really this: why didn't the USADA get off their arse a bit sooner, and do some digging themselves?

I thought GJ was, and stayed, confidential. I'm a little sceptical of the "freed from the constraints of living the lie" line. I (perhaps cynically) suspect that the USADA got hold of the GJ testimony and said to witnesses: "if you recant on this under oath in the future, we will find a way to disclose it and show you've perjured yourself". At least, if I worked at the USADA, that's what I would have done.

disgruntledgoat

Greg66 wrote:

At least, if I worked at the USADA, that's what I would have done.

Remind me not to p!ss you off

Yellow Peril

It will be interesting to see if Liggett seeks to "clarify" some of the comments that he made in the interview. High profile people, especially politicians, seem to do this an awful lot when they realise they have made some howlers that are going down like lead balloons.

I would expect Liggett to do this unless he is going to do a David Icke.

rick_chasey

Greg66 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

@Rick - I think DG is close but I'd guess that the GJ got people talking under the threat of perjury adn then they found out how nice it was to stop living the lie - When USADA came calling they were ready to speak openly for the first time. I think it's taken this long for the Omerta to crumble enough basically...

I suspect Rick's point is really this: why didn't the USADA get off their ars* a bit sooner, and do some digging themselves?

I thought GJ was, and stayed, confidential. I'm a little sceptical of the "freed from the constraints of living the lie" line. I (perhaps cynically) suspect that the USADA got hold of the GJ testimony and said to witnesses: "if you recant on this under oath in the future, we will find a way to disclose it and show you've perjured yourself". At least, if I worked at the USADA, that's what I would have done.

I would imagine this is the likeliest scenario and would explain why they've kept a bit shtum about the timing. I do also genuinely think USADA likes going after the big ticket names.

greg66_tri_v2.0

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

At least, if I worked at the USADA, that's what I would have done.

Remind me not to p!ss you off

Ha!

Pretty bread and butter litigation lawyer thinking, I'm afraid. No prior pissing off required...

DeadCalm

Whilst in a 'private situation' in the bedroom Lance assured Liggett that he didn't dope . Erm?!?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/liggett ... e-of-money

rdt

DeadCalm wrote:

Whilst in a 'private situation' in the bedroom Lance assured Liggett that he didn't dope . Erm?!?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/liggett ... e-of-money

Ha ha that's great.

“He told me in a private situation, when I wasn’t working as a journalist. I was sat in the bedroom some years ago, and I asked him point blank, ‘look Lance, the way I talked you up on television, I would have to back off and resign if you one day went positive’. And he looked at me and he said ‘man I’ve seen death in the face and I don’t take drugs.’ And that’s all he said. I have no reason to disbelieve him.”

A doping conspiracy bust is far more serious than a test positive, so what are you waiting for?