Vuelta Stage 12 ***SPOILER***
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He's not the messiah, he's a very... sighhhhh...0
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BigMat wrote:In a funny way, that may have given Froome's confidence a boost the way he managed to limit his losses when it looked like he'd cracked early on the climb. There's still plenty of time for him to reel in J-Rod, although Contador will be harder. Long way still to go...
Yeah, bit of mixed feelings about that stage. I think he may have learned from the stage on Saturday when he tried to go with the attacks. It suggests that on the longer hills he could possibly reel them back in if they attack early-ish and possibly that they might struggle to stay with him over a longer, sustained climb (athough I think Bertie will be in his element then). The worst case for him is if they can hold him to the final km or so as I think Froome will lose time whenever that happens.
Interesting days ahead but I still think that ultimately Froome has too many racing miles in his legs and will finish 4th overall now. Gesink was a surprise for me today, his climbing form had been terrible - possibly just short enough for him to hang on?0 -
Anyone on the forum not enjoying this? It's great, Froome going through the mill a bit at the moment but nothing is certain. I think Contador is looking favourite for a high tempo ride away on a long climb at the moment. That might suit Froome in terms of following as opposed to Valv and JRod but I think Bertie has the measure of Froome now.0
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I keep enjoying it right up to the point where I see Valv.PITI appear on the screen and then it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
I think Contador has this one but reckon Froome can make podium still...0 -
The cause for concern for Contador is that he hasn't looked able to sustain his attacks at all.
I can see a return of the Sky train in the high mountains, with the three Spaniards content to hang on until the final k of climbs and then fight out for the bonus seconds.0 -
Turfle wrote:The cause for concern for Contador is that he hasn't looked able to sustain his attacks at all.
I can see a return of the Sky train in the high mountains, with the three Spaniards content to hang on until the final k of climbs and then fight out for the bonus seconds.
The Sky train tactic is good and works up to a point but I think it is fair to say that the GC opposition to Froome in this Vuelta is slightly better than Sky encountered in the Tour. I don't think the Sky train here has enough gas to break the Spaniards.0 -
Well I strongly disagree that the GC contenders here are better, but setting a high pace to try and unsettle Rodriguez and Valverde, and to discourage attacks from Contador is really the only tactic Froome has. What else can he try?
An early attack will likely leave him isolated with the three Spaniards again.
No Sky train/strong pace means the three Spaniards can ride the change of pace way that doesn't suit Froome so much.0 -
Turfle wrote:The cause for concern for Contador is that he hasn't looked able to sustain his attacks at all.
I can see a return of the Sky train in the high mountains, with the three Spaniards content to hang on until the final k of climbs and then fight out for the bonus seconds.
I don't think Uran and Henao are the right sort of climbers for that and Porte is knackered.0 -
Pross wrote:Turfle wrote:The cause for concern for Contador is that he hasn't looked able to sustain his attacks at all.
I can see a return of the Sky train in the high mountains, with the three Spaniards content to hang on until the final k of climbs and then fight out for the bonus seconds.
I don't think Uran and Henao are the right sort of climbers for that and Porte is knackered.
Have to agree. Sky cant look to replicate same approach every time, with different riders and vs different oppo. Maybe they thought they could but they should be learning here that they cant. Porte put in a great TT yday but clearly still not up to level of rest of his season on the climbs.0 -
They're not perfect for it, but still good enough. Porte did a good TT, so might be coming back to strength. Uran has done a fair amount of high tempo riding, most recently destroying the field in Burgos for Henao. Henao isn't ideal for it, but any good climber can ride a strong steady pace.
But if someone can suggest a viable alternative tactic to beat the three Spaniards I'd love it hear it!0 -
Turfle wrote:They're not perfect for it, but still good enough. Porte did a good TT, so might be coming back to strength. Uran has done a fair amount of high tempo riding, most recently destroying the field in Burgos for Henao. Henao isn't ideal for it, but any good climber can ride a strong steady pace.
But if someone can suggest a viable alternative tactic to beat the three Spaniards I'd love it hear it!
Bring in one Robert Millar...he could teach them a thing or two about Spanish tactics...0 -
Turfle wrote:Well I strongly disagree that the GC contenders here are better, but setting a high pace to try and unsettle Rodriguez and Valverde, and to discourage attacks from Contador is really the only tactic Froome has. What else can he try?
An early attack will likely leave him isolated with the three Spaniards again.
No Sky train/strong pace means the three Spaniards can ride the change of pace way that doesn't suit Froome so much.
I agree in terms of the Sky train being the only tactic. I don't think Froome can compete using the same tactics as the Spaniards. A great race!
Poor old Porte every day must be like Groundhog Day for him!0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Turfle wrote:They're not perfect for it, but still good enough. Porte did a good TT, so might be coming back to strength. Uran has done a fair amount of high tempo riding, most recently destroying the field in Burgos for Henao. Henao isn't ideal for it, but any good climber can ride a strong steady pace.
But if someone can suggest a viable alternative tactic to beat the three Spaniards I'd love it hear it!
Bring in one Robert Millar...he could teach them a thing or two about Spanish tactics...
Used to post here occasionally, didn't he? Would love to know what he'd advise Froome to do.0 -
I thought Spanish tactics were more David Millar's kind of thing ;-)Richmond Racer wrote:Bring in one Robert Millar...he could teach them a thing or two about Spanish tactics...0 -
bompington wrote:
I thought Spanish tactics were more David Millar's kind of thing ;-)Richmond Racer wrote:Bring in one Robert Millar...he could teach them a thing or two about Spanish tactics...
Tut tut, Bompington. We're talking SERIOUS tactics here...a day of infamy....0 -
That was ridiculously steep - hardknott viciousness.
from 15min onwards:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt5wnd ... e-12_sport
Contador said to be "churning" / spinning 36-28 !0 -
Yeah it was crazy - supposedly touched 30% in places!
Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Yeah it was crazy - supposedly touched 30% in places!
Purito - what a smoothie...
Something I did like yesterday was the sudden surge of Henao who looked like he was making good ground on Purito and Contador at one point, then disappeared from view - perhaps Froome had a little Wiggins-Froome-La Toussuire moment there...
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Teklehaimanot finished down 32mins yday and is 170 odd on GC. Disappointed in that especially as the weather is very hot so should suit him. Maybe he is ill or maybe he crashed or maybe they dont want him to rest...
Henao finished 11th.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Turfle wrote:They're not perfect for it, but still good enough. Porte did a good TT, so might be coming back to strength. Uran has done a fair amount of high tempo riding, most recently destroying the field in Burgos for Henao. Henao isn't ideal for it, but any good climber can ride a strong steady pace.
But if someone can suggest a viable alternative tactic to beat the three Spaniards I'd love it hear it!
I can't think of another tactic - the course suits the style of the 3 Spaniards more than it does Froome (it also doesn't really suit high tempo climbing). Don't forget that the Tour squad spent weeks out in Tenerife specifically working on that tactic but Henao and Uran were riding the Giro at the time, they had to train their bodies to ride and sustain a high tempo on the climbs.0 -
Difference here is sky are not in the lead so there is no need to ride that way. I would just sit and watch bertie as he is the one that has to gain and put time into J-Rod who is riding far better than before and Bertie cannot afford to let him near any finishes.Pross wrote:Turfle wrote:They're not perfect for it, but still good enough. Porte did a good TT, so might be coming back to strength. Uran has done a fair amount of high tempo riding, most recently destroying the field in Burgos for Henao. Henao isn't ideal for it, but any good climber can ride a strong steady pace.
But if someone can suggest a viable alternative tactic to beat the three Spaniards I'd love it hear it!
I can't think of another tactic - the course suits the style of the 3 Spaniards more than it does Froome (it also doesn't really suit high tempo climbing). Don't forget that the Tour squad spent weeks out in Tenerife specifically working on that tactic but Henao and Uran were riding the Giro at the time, they had to train their bodies to ride and sustain a high tempo on the climbs.
The problem Froome does have is he has to gap Bertie by a decent gap and this may only be possible either with a 2km jump after letting bertie do the work, do it over a couple of hard stages, or go for a long one with one of his team mates, not sure that will happen unless it is the last climbing stage as could be recipe for disaster but he has to try something.0 -
oldwelshman wrote:
Difference here is sky are not in the lead so there is no need to ride that way. I would just sit and watch bertie as he is the one that has to gain and put time into J-Rod who is riding far better than before and Bertie cannot afford to let him near any finishes.Pross wrote:Turfle wrote:They're not perfect for it, but still good enough. Porte did a good TT, so might be coming back to strength. Uran has done a fair amount of high tempo riding, most recently destroying the field in Burgos for Henao. Henao isn't ideal for it, but any good climber can ride a strong steady pace.
But if someone can suggest a viable alternative tactic to beat the three Spaniards I'd love it hear it!
I can't think of another tactic - the course suits the style of the 3 Spaniards more than it does Froome (it also doesn't really suit high tempo climbing). Don't forget that the Tour squad spent weeks out in Tenerife specifically working on that tactic but Henao and Uran were riding the Giro at the time, they had to train their bodies to ride and sustain a high tempo on the climbs.
The problem Froome does have is he has to gap Bertie by a decent gap and this may only be possible either with a 2km jump after letting bertie do the work, do it over a couple of hard stages, or go for a long one with one of his team mates, not sure that will happen unless it is the last climbing stage as could be recipe for disaster but he has to try something.
Problem with that is it gives Contador free reign to dictate pace. Accelerate, and then slow, accelerate and slow. Exactly what Froome doesn't want. Contador has also thus far shown an unwillingness to work with Froome; they were both clear on stage 10 (?) and refused to ride, resulting in JRod and Valverde coming back.
Ride as high a tempo as possible to suit Froome. If the others can hang on then they hang on.0 -
Its different now as that changing [pace tactics suits J-Rod and he is Bertieas main concern so Bertie has the onus on him to attack now, like today, which again did not work.Turfle wrote:oldwelshman wrote:
Difference here is sky are not in the lead so there is no need to ride that way. I would just sit and watch bertie as he is the one that has to gain and put time into J-Rod who is riding far better than before and Bertie cannot afford to let him near any finishes.Pross wrote:Turfle wrote:They're not perfect for it, but still good enough. Porte did a good TT, so might be coming back to strength. Uran has done a fair amount of high tempo riding, most recently destroying the field in Burgos for Henao. Henao isn't ideal for it, but any good climber can ride a strong steady pace.
But if someone can suggest a viable alternative tactic to beat the three Spaniards I'd love it hear it!
I can't think of another tactic - the course suits the style of the 3 Spaniards more than it does Froome (it also doesn't really suit high tempo climbing). Don't forget that the Tour squad spent weeks out in Tenerife specifically working on that tactic but Henao and Uran were riding the Giro at the time, they had to train their bodies to ride and sustain a high tempo on the climbs.
The problem Froome does have is he has to gap Bertie by a decent gap and this may only be possible either with a 2km jump after letting bertie do the work, do it over a couple of hard stages, or go for a long one with one of his team mates, not sure that will happen unless it is the last climbing stage as could be recipe for disaster but he has to try something.
Problem with that is it gives Contador free reign to dictate pace. Accelerate, and then slow, accelerate and slow. Exactly what Froome doesn't want. Contador has also thus far shown an unwillingness to work with Froome; they were both clear on stage 10 (?) and refused to ride, resulting in JRod and Valverde coming back.
Ride as high a tempo as possible to suit Froome. If the others can hang on then they hang on.0
