Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped
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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-a ... verbruggen
I tend to think that this was a long time ago and both sides have lost clarity on the facts.
Maybe it just seemed like no big deal at that time and the UCI did not want anymore drug scandals so did not ask to many questions.0 -
dsoutar wrote:
All up to USADA. And so far he's shown no inclination to talk to them. What he uses a news interview or his Twitter feed, to say he'll do, and what he's backed up so far, seem to be worlds apart.
He'll just bleat that Tygart's a meanie and won't treat him 'fairly'0 -
Interesting quote from Alex Gibney regarding the 'level playing field':.... it wasn’t a level playing field, and it wasn’t a level playing field in this sense because he had such an outside influence in the sport. The organizing body of the sport cut him so much slack and I suspect in the days ahead we may yet find out about how much slack they cut him. But even after he retired, the ability to massage his reputation and keep it clean for the sake of the sport because he was bigger than the sport; that’s where he had an advantage that nobody else had.
http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/sport/5623/lance-armstrong-inside-the-lie/?0 -
^
None of the above helped him pedal his bike a bit quicker than the others though ... Or was the associated money also used to sporting advantage?
And if so ... well, I think we know tne rest ...0 -
Crankbrother wrote:^
None of the above helped him pedal his bike a bit quicker than the others though ... Or was the associated money also used to sporting advantage?
And if so ... well, I think we know tne rest ...
It depends how much slack and how early it was given that enabled him to continue pedal a bit quicker than the others, and did the donation he made to the UCI give him a sporting advantage?0 -
Unless the UCI used a different clock to time the others, or allowed him to ride a shortened course, I don't see how ...
Majority, if not all, of the main players doping ... and from what we have learnt so far, pretty much all using the same techniques ... only difference being the effort that went into making sure he wasn't getting caught ...0 -
Well, if he could (and he could organise his team to) dope pretty much as much as he wanted without fear of getting caught as he knew when the testers would be coming and could rely on the results being lost if he still managed to fail a test...
...and he could call-down the UCI on his competitors as Tyler alleges, where they dragged him to Aigle to say they couldn't find what he was doing but he had to stop it...0 -
But did any of that make him faster and his competitors slower? I doubt any of it made his life any less stressful than the other guys given how he was the one with most to lose ...0
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andy_wrx wrote:Well, if he could (and he could organise his team to) dope pretty much as much as he wanted without fear of getting caught as he knew when the testers would be coming and could rely on the results being lost if he still managed to fail a test...
...and he could call-down the UCI on his competitors as Tyler alleges, where they dragged him to Aigle to say they couldn't find what he was doing but he had to stop it...
If Armstrong had that much influence then it would not matter if he got tested or if he knew when the testers were coming ,,,he could make any positive test go away.
That's a contradiction.0 -
Crankbrother wrote:But did any of that make him faster and his competitors slower? I doubt any of it made his life any less stressful than the other guys given how he was the one with most to lose ...
Maybe that's why he's so disinclined to talk to USADA, despite the incentive.
Perhaps the truth is even worse than the speculation."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I'd guess he's saying as little as possible until the whistleblower suit goes away ...
I think he wants to know which route the bus he's being thrown under is taking and who the passengers are gonna be first ...0 -
The epo high and other drugs helped him pedal quicker than the others. If it didn't why take it ? The benefit of sitting behind 8 other riders doped to the gills helped hi pedal quicker too0
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You don't know how much he gained over his rivals from PED''s. He obviously responded well but others could have responded better but were just not as naturally talented as an athlete0
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Jan ullrich won white jersey at first attempt then yellow then consistently on the podium. What pedigree did la have in the tour pre drugs ?rayjay wrote:You don't know how much he gained over his rivals from PED''s. He obviously responded well but others could have responded better but were just not as naturally talented as an athlete0 -
And Ullrich did that clean did he? :roll:sherer wrote:
Jan ullrich won white jersey at first attempt then yellow then consistently on the podium. What pedigree did la have in the tour pre drugs ?rayjay wrote:You don't know how much he gained over his rivals from PED''s. He obviously responded well but others could have responded better but were just not as naturally talented as an athleteTwitter: @RichN950 -
Perhaps your right and Ulrich was a more talented rider. I have always thought that he never fully realised his potential.
Perhaps Armstrong did respond better and it gave him an advantage. We can only guess.
Lets take Froome for example, has he got any pedigree before he joined Sky.
His transformation is just as extraordinary, even more so as he had won nothing that suggested he was a future tour champion.
Armstrong was a WC and he did win a stage but the jump to tour winner was only possible by taking PED's.0 -
sherer wrote:
Jan ullrich won white jersey at first attempt then yellow then consistently on the podium. What pedigree did la have in the tour pre drugs ?rayjay wrote:You don't know how much he gained over his rivals from PED''s. He obviously responded well but others could have responded better but were just not as naturally talented as an athlete
Same as the previous 3 TdF 'winners' who have now all either confessed or been busted ...
I mentioned in the other thread that USPS' rivals were Telekom/ONCE/Mercatone Uno/Kelme/CSC ... A simple google will get you all the info you need on those other teams ...
LA cheated and eventually got busted ... He takes the blame and the pain, no question ... But to say doping gave himan advantage over his near rivals is utter nonsense ... They were all doing the same thing, with the same success ... Just didn't apply the same 'marginal veins' ...0 -
[{quote="Crankbrother"]But did any of that make him faster and his competitors slower? I doubt any of it made his life any less stressful than the other guys given how he was the one with most to lose ...[/quote]andy_wrx wrote:Well, if he could (and he could organise his team to) dope pretty much as much as he wanted without fear of getting caught as he knew when the testers would be coming and could rely on the results being lost if he still managed to fail a test...
...and he could call-down the UCI on his competitors as Tyler alleges, where they dragged him to Aigle to say they couldn't find what he was doing but he had to stop it...
Don'y be silly.
Yes, it would make him faster than his competitors - with protection he had less chance of getting busted so he could dope more freely and effectively, and if he was busted it would be covered-up by Hein [if we believe LA, Hein denies it]
So of course it would make his life less stressful, he had little chance of losing anything at all.
In fact, if we believe Tyler, he could use the UCI to stress his opponents.0 -
Bear in mind when they describe it as the 'most sophisticated' doping program they are still just talking about blood bags taped to walls and drugs in the fridge ...
I assume you have both walls and a fridge so likely you could beat Jan and Joseba in their pomp?0 -
what were your impressions of LA after the Gibney docu? Mine -he is manipulating people now0
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Cookson was on radio 4 this morning talking about doing deals with dopers and didn't rule out the possibility of Armstrong competing as a veteran saying it would be up to USADA...0
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Thing is, despite the cheating, LA has the drive and charisma to get things done ... It just depends how he himself sees the way forward ... I think the way the bans were handed out has stuck in his craw somewhat and unless someone is gonna stand up and say to USADA, 'you need to review your decision' I don't see him seeking that olive branch ...
There are also others with much to lose if LA does get back in and becomes a force for change ... Vaughters and Lemond's politicking would have become a fruitless endeavour, for example ... LA carries more weight than either of those guys, disgraced or not ...0 -
The LA story isn't finished yet that's for sure. In fact if it wasn't for his incredible story, no one would care would they? He'd just be another rider who thought cheating was an acceptable way to get what you want. It's the story that has created this mess, and why so may feel betrayed by him. Well the story and the lies.
As for doping, there's no such thing as level playing field anymore.0 -
kleinstroker wrote:The LA story isn't finished yet that's for sure. In fact if it wasn't for his incredible story, no one would care would they? He'd just be another rider who thought cheating was an acceptable way to get what you want. It's the story that has created this mess, and why so may feel betrayed by him. Well the story and the lies.
As for doping, there's no such thing as level playing field anymore.
Even with super charged doping there never was a level playing field. That's one of the biggest fallacies around.0 -
There's never been a level playing field in sport and never will be. Dope or no dope.kleinstroker wrote:As for doping, there's no such thing as level playing field anymore.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
There's never been a level playing field in sport and never will be. Dope or no dope.kleinstroker wrote:As for doping, there's no such thing as level playing field anymore.
Correct0 -
Yet another Armstrong film:
https://abccommercial.com/contentsales/ ... rong-story0 -
Crankbrother wrote:Bear in mind when they describe it as the 'most sophisticated' doping program they are still just talking about blood bags taped to walls and drugs in the fridge ...
You make a good point. "Most sophisticated", at least to me, would mean almost a hospital type setting. Whereas blood bags on the wall etc, sounds pretty crack house / dope den style.0
