Contador (warning: fan here)

lostboysaint

mfin wrote:

I don't hate Contador, I just find him the most laughable of all the cheats.

I actually find it really odd how people idolise one rider or another, I don't idolise any of them, I just appreciate great riding, BUT I can't appreciate it the same when its done by dopers that's all.

I know people do idolise riders, but when it goes all the way to thinking how stylish they are off the bike, liking what they wear, whether they shave a certain way, its then seems all a bit on the mental side to me.

That.

smithy21

Has operation puerto been mentioned yet?

*runs*

disgruntledgoat

So if in the course of Bruyneel's arbitration it emerges from witness testimony that there was a team-sponsored doping plan on Disco/Astana and that a further respondant who accepted his ban for doping practices and was also Contador's personal coach, was involved, will you believe that Contador was party to it?

andrewjoseph

I forgot about berties coach.

Accepting the ban without a fight is the same as a guilty plea isn't it? ;-)

mfin

andrewjoseph wrote:

I forgot about berties coach.

Accepting the ban without a fight is the same as a guilty plea isn't it? ;-)

Pepe Marti was handed the ban but he then requested Artbitration afterwards, and USADA agreed to let him have this, which as was said, is very reasonable of them...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12593/USADA-permits-Pepe-Martis-request-for-arbitration-in-US-Postal-Service-case.aspx

...Marti was also AC's trainer while at Astana, not sure when he stopped using Marti if he has (well he couldnt when Marti missed the deadline and was banned, but thats now lifted pending Arbitration I think)

disgruntledgoat

mfin wrote:

andrewjoseph wrote:

I forgot about berties coach.

Accepting the ban without a fight is the same as a guilty plea isn't it? ;-)

Pepe Marti was handed the ban but he then requested Artbitration afterwards, and USADA agreed to let him have this, which as was said, is very reasonable of them...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12593/USADA-permits-Pepe-Martis-request-for-arbitration-in-US-Postal-Service-case.aspx

I'm sure hey'll be grateful of any opportunity to air their evidence... I retract my statement about him accepting his ban.

Would the Contador fans be as forgiving of another star rider who had ridden for a team whohad been closed down following the arrest of their principal handing over a suitcase full of cash to a doctor with most of the Tour's podium places blood in his offices,who then went on to ride for a team investigated by the FBI for doping offences who's star rider, DS, doctor and coach have been accused of conspiracy relating to doping, who then went on to ride for a team run by the boss of one of the blood-bankers and another star rider paying the same doctor for "training plans"?

I just don't believe, however nice a lad he may be, that he went through all that and won so many GTs in such style that he was never exposed to or aware of doping practices in those teams.

I don't hate him, he served a ban (which I believe should have been the full 2 years, but you can't have it all) and he's entitled to come back. I just hate seeing riders who get caught wriggling through the courts instead of copping to it and wasting an opportunity to shine a light on problems which nearly destroyed professional cycling.

andrewjoseph

mfin wrote:

andrewjoseph wrote:

I forgot about berties coach.

Accepting the ban without a fight is the same as a guilty plea isn't it? ;-)

Pepe Marti was handed the ban but he then requested Artbitration afterwards, and USADA agreed to let him have this, which as was said, is very reasonable of them...

oops,

Yeah, that's what I meant! :oops: :oops:

LeicesterLad

disgruntledgoat wrote:

mfin wrote:

andrewjoseph wrote:

I forgot about berties coach.

Accepting the ban without a fight is the same as a guilty plea isn't it? ;-)

Pepe Marti was handed the ban but he then requested Artbitration afterwards, and USADA agreed to let him have this, which as was said, is very reasonable of them...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12593/USADA-permits-Pepe-Martis-request-for-arbitration-in-US-Postal-Service-case.aspx

I'm sure hey'll be grateful of any opportunity to air their evidence... I retract my statement about him accepting his ban.

Would the Contador fans be as forgiving of another star rider who had ridden for a team whohad been closed down following the arrest of their principal handing over a suitcase full of cash to a doctor with most of the Tour's podium places blood in his offices,who then went on to ride for a team investigated by the FBI for doping offences who's star rider, DS, doctor and coach have been accused of conspiracy relating to doping, who then went on to ride for a team run by the boss of one of the blood-bankers and another star rider paying the same doctor for "training plans"?

I just don't believe, however nice a lad he may be, that he went through all that and won so many GTs in such style that he was never exposed to or aware of doping practices in those teams.

I don't hate him, he served a ban (which I believe should have been the full 2 years, but you can't have it all) and he's entitled to come back. I just hate seeing riders who get caught wriggling through the courts instead of copping to it and wasting an opportunity to shine a light on problems which nearly destroyed professional cycling.

I agree with what your saying, I'm not denying his guilt. Its not about forgiveness, this whole thing started because a few of us are getting bored with the same old circle of crap jokes and jibes when trying to talk about the racing. Contador cheated, He was punished, he's back - I'm willing to just let him get on with it without dragging everything up everytime someone says 'Contador road well today' or such like. Why the need to go on and on about it in every single thread that involves his name? We get it, some people like him, others don't but others can't let it lie without going on about how they hate racing, how everything is tainted, how he's destroyed the sport (not the previous 20 years of dopers, just Bertie) and basically lecturing anybody that dares to see he rides with a bit of style etc etc

DDraver - I'm probably a little deluded with the Contador fandom, but it wasn't that long ago we were arguing about you likeing/defending the Schlecks so much, now look how that pair of dopers turned out! Fact is, sometimes some of us can't help who we like, we don't really need to be told all the wrongs about them because we already know, its just that we dont let it eat into our sleep. I'm sure you will still be a fan of Frandy in years to come!

dougzz

@LL. You can't tar Andy with Frank's brush.

disgruntledgoat

@LL

I'm honestly no more or less fussed on him than most other riders. I just think that being one of the top stars of the sport carries with it responsibilities to that he's failed to uphold. Completely agree, however, that he is definitely not the first and wont be the last.

LeicesterLad

dougzz wrote:

@LL. You can't tar Andy with Frank's brush.

Guilty by association? AKA - Contador and Pepi, Contador and Puerto...

They do train together every single day of their lives...

oneof1982

LeicesterLad wrote:

[

I agree with what your saying, I'm not denying his guilt. Its not about forgiveness, this whole thing started because a few of us are getting bored with the same old circle of crap jokes and jibes when trying to talk about the racing. Contador cheated, He was punished, he's back - I'm willing to just let him get on with it without dragging everything up everytime someone says 'Contador road well today' or such like. Why the need to go on and on about it in every single thread that involves his name? We get it, some people like him, others don't but others can't let it lie without going on about how they hate racing, how everything is tainted, how he's destroyed the sport (not the previous 20 years of dopers, just Bertie) and basically lecturing anybody that dares to see he rides with a bit of style etc etc

I agree. It's time to grab the bull by the horns and put this out to grass. There's too much at steak to let this beef run.

LeicesterLad

oneof1982 wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

[

I agree with what your saying, I'm not denying his guilt. Its not about forgiveness, this whole thing started because a few of us are getting bored with the same old circle of crap jokes and jibes when trying to talk about the racing. Contador cheated, He was punished, he's back - I'm willing to just let him get on with it without dragging everything up everytime someone says 'Contador road well today' or such like. Why the need to go on and on about it in every single thread that involves his name? We get it, some people like him, others don't but others can't let it lie without going on about how they hate racing, how everything is tainted, how he's destroyed the sport (not the previous 20 years of dopers, just Bertie) and basically lecturing anybody that dares to see he rides with a bit of style etc etc

I agree. It's time to grab the bull by the horns and put this out to grass. There's too much at steak to let this beef run.

Won't deny that it raised a smile.

rick_chasey

oneof1982 wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

[

I agree with what your saying, I'm not denying his guilt. Its not about forgiveness, this whole thing started because a few of us are getting bored with the same old circle of crap jokes and jibes when trying to talk about the racing. Contador cheated, He was punished, he's back - I'm willing to just let him get on with it without dragging everything up everytime someone says 'Contador road well today' or such like. Why the need to go on and on about it in every single thread that involves his name? We get it, some people like him, others don't but others can't let it lie without going on about how they hate racing, how everything is tainted, how he's destroyed the sport (not the previous 20 years of dopers, just Bertie) and basically lecturing anybody that dares to see he rides with a bit of style etc etc

I agree. It's time to grab the bull by the horns and put this out to grass. There's too much at steak to let this beef run.

ddraver

LeicesterLad wrote:

dougzz wrote:

@LL. You can't tar Andy with Frank's brush.

Guilty by association? AKA - Contador and Pepi, Contador and Puerto...

They do train together every single day of their lives...

Again, No - Contador is guilty by a positive test!

I can't remember what I wrote when Frank got popped but in no way was it positive. I nearly stopped following the race afterwards because i was so fucksing fed up of having to try and explain why I watched a bunch of cheating dopers every day to my non cyclist friends. I may even of postulated how someone can tell that cute little 3 year old in his cardboard TT helmet on Youtube that all his heros are cheats...

The British Success did pull me back in though this year. (and I make no apologies for being proud to be British!) I ve not watched any of the Vuelta so far because I find it pointless and disheartening...No doubt come the spring classics I ll have forgotten about it all over again though!

LeicesterLad

ddraver wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

dougzz wrote:

@LL. You can't tar Andy with Frank's brush.

Guilty by association? AKA - Contador and Pepi, Contador and Puerto...

They do train together every single day of their lives...

Again, No - Contador is guilty by a positive test!

I can't remember what I wrote when Frank got popped but in no way was it positive. I nearly stopped following the race afterwards because i was so fucksing fed up of having to try and explain why I watched a bunch of cheating dopers every day to my non cyclist friends. I may even of postulated how someone can tell that cute little 3 year old in his cardboard TT helmet on Youtube that all his heros are cheats...

The British Success did pull me back in though this year. (and I make no apologies for being proud to be British!) I ve not watched any of the Vuelta so far because I find it pointless and disheartening...No doubt come the spring classics I ll have forgotten about it all over again though!

I'm talking beyond the test - the tone of this thread indicates his involvement with Puerto and the Pepi link - that is, as it stands, by association and nothing more. But yeah, i'm actually going to shut up on this thread now, poor OP has been demoralised enough and put well and truly back in his box for daring to like the Spaniard!

I always knew Frank would let you down, should have listened when i said they were a pair of t*ssers.

No_Ta_Doctor

LeicesterLad wrote:

I'm talking beyond the test - the tone of this thread indicates his involvement with Puerto and the Pepi link - that is, as it stands, by association and nothing more. But yeah, i'm actually going to shut up on this thread now, poor OP has been demoralised enough and put well and truly back in his box for daring to like the Spaniard!

I always knew Frank would let you down, should have listened when i said they were a pair of t*ssers.

Thing is, according to LeMonde (the paper, not the rider...) he refused to allow a DNA test. He could easily have put our minds to rest about whether it was his blood in the puerto bags or not. He chose not to.

While I tend to agree with you that it can get a bit tedious to be discussing Contador's doping, a thread that starts with something along the lines of "isn't it gobsmackingly wonderful to have Contador back?" (paraphrased ;-) ) is always going to be a red rag to a bull (beef reference unintentional).

My personal feeling on all dopers is based on the fact that I have now introduced my 9 year old to watching cycling. I'm fairly immune to hero-worship, as an Arsenal fan that's been let down a few too many times and as a cycling fan that now has difficulty trusting the vast majority of riders I've learnt my lessons.

My 9 year old hasn't though. So I have to point out why I'm not cheering for a rider who is showing buckets of "panache"...

mattshrops

I like contadors riding style. Whether or not i like him is'nt relevant to me. How i wish he'd never doped.

He did.He got banned(yeah yeah, i know). He's back.


so i enjoy his style. What i dont like is this being used to insult other riders-robots etc. I think this gets a lot of peoples back up on here.

If you give it out expect to get it back(but probably not from me cos i dont care all that much)I love all great riders whether they be flamboyant or diesels, sprinters, climbers or TTers

morstar

mattshrops wrote:

I like contadors riding style. Whether or not i like him is'nt relevant to me. How i wish he'd never doped.

He did.He got banned(yeah yeah, i know). He's back.


so i enjoy his style. What i dont like is this being used to insult other riders-robots etc. I think this gets a lot of peoples back up on here.

If you give it out expect to get it back(but probably not from me cos i dont care all that much)I love all great riders whether they be flamboyant or diesels, sprinters, climbers or TTers

So you're clearly in a minority on here of people who actually appreciate the riders efforts and actually enjoy bike racing. Seems a lot of people have very narrow scope of which are acceptable riders and acceptable riding styles.

mfin

morstar wrote:

So you're clearly in a minority on here of people who actually appreciate the riders efforts and actually enjoy bike racing. Seems a lot of people have very narrow scope of which are acceptable riders and acceptable riding styles.

I think the majority of us appreciate the riders efforts and enjoy the bike racing, I know I do, I love it.

As for some people having a 'very narrow scope of which are acceptable riders and acceptable riding styles', I don't think that applies to people who don't like the dopers, not me anyway that's for sure, cos if you rule out the known dopers there are so so many riders left. I do agree with the narrow scope of it in the case of people who narrow down on riding styles though, seems some people are jumping at labelling people either with heroic status, or doing the opposite and knocking them... there's so much 'heavyweight this, lightweight that, true this, wheelsucking that' and idolisation declaring panache and style, its all nothing short of daft to me. But I do find it funny!

I suppose what's most weird is some people's automatic assumption that some people don't like, follow, or enjoy the racing... its odd... I guess it comes from assumptions that if people don't post comments on the racing, they aren't enjoying or maybe even watching it, but I for instance don't comment on it hardly it all, but watch stacks and stacks of it, am glued to it, I just don't see the need to add to the commentary on it I suppose.

Also, I think its good we discuss things like Contador, I mean, some people are saying 'yeah, yeah, we know, we know' but the next people will say something like further up the thread (just a loose example here) that AC was only guilty by association to Puerto, maybe not knowing that there was blood which was clearly believed to be his, to which he refused to grant a DNA test to prove otherwise, and that choice was his cos in Spanish Law DNA cant be used in these circumstances cos they're not criminal. If he wasn't Spanish it could even have been an entirely different story. But his Spanish given civil rights were apparently more important to him than offering a DNA test which could have vindicated him, now, I wonder why he chose not to? - this is an example of some good information on a thread like this for those who haven't heard it, and they are here, and they are interested, if anyone isn't, no problem.

I know some people don't like some sides of the talk of Contador, but, in the end, I think its pretty obvious that he's a controversial topic/character. But, lets get this right, not many (including me) would deny he's a damn good bike rider.

DonDaddyD

Lichtblick wrote:

I'm so glad he's back. Here's why I really like watching Contador.

He brings mountain stages alive. His style, almost dancing on the pedals. I've seen him launch an attack on a steep uphill bend and overtake the opposition on the outside of a steep corner where all the others are clinging to the mountain side kerb. Their faces sometimes say "where did that come from" because they weren't expecting it. I'm sorry, but Froome does not have his easy grace on climbs (it always looks like a grim slog). I'm not old enough to have seen Pantani or Bahamontes.

He's so cool while doing all that. No gurning, just a straight face, as if to say "this is what I do, what you got?"

Repeated attacks uphill.

Expertise downhill.

Expertise on time trials even when under immense pressure*.

While still pedalling in burning heat over a suffocatingly crowded mountain top, managed to punch a prat spectator (kitted out as a syringe) squarely in the face and carry on. That was heroic.

*His stoicism when under enormous stress in Astana when LA was there. Also heroic.

Not having met him and never will, for all I know he's dull in real life. Don't care. I think he's superb to watch and I'm glad he's back.

+1!

The last Tour de France would have been exciting had he been in it. In fact that stage in La Vuelta where he attacked, attacked and attacked again was probably more exciting that the entire second week of the le Tour.

andrewjoseph

Bertie attacked like a monster yesterday didn't he!

Cramp? No, just a bad day.

personality of a cold, greasy crepe.

ddraver

andrewjoseph wrote:

Bertie attacked like a monster yesterday didn't he!

Cramp? No, just a bad day.

personality of a cold, greasy crepe.

Ow Burn! even I think that's harsh!

thomthom

andrewjoseph wrote:

Bertie attacked like a monster yesterday didn't he!

Cramp? No, just a bad day.

personality of a cold, greasy crepe.

You're right. Berto did have a bad day. But unlike others who are about to do something similar to what we haven't seen since Hinault... there's a slight chance of that happening.

dougzz

Someone else is having a much worse day than Bertie......

alanjay

DonDaddyD wrote:

Lichtblick wrote:

I'm so glad he's back. Here's why I really like watching Contador.

He brings mountain stages alive. His style, almost dancing on the pedals. I've seen him launch an attack on a steep uphill bend and overtake the opposition on the outside of a steep corner where all the others are clinging to the mountain side kerb. Their faces sometimes say "where did that come from" because they weren't expecting it. I'm sorry, but Froome does not have his easy grace on climbs (it always looks like a grim slog). I'm not old enough to have seen Pantani or Bahamontes.

He's so cool while doing all that. No gurning, just a straight face, as if to say "this is what I do, what you got?"

Repeated attacks uphill.

Expertise downhill.

Expertise on time trials even when under immense pressure*.

While still pedalling in burning heat over a suffocatingly crowded mountain top, managed to punch a prat spectator (kitted out as a syringe) squarely in the face and carry on. That was heroic.

*His stoicism when under enormous stress in Astana when LA was there. Also heroic.

Not having met him and never will, for all I know he's dull in real life. Don't care. I think he's superb to watch and I'm glad he's back.

+1!

The last Tour de France would have been exciting had he been in it. In fact that stage in La Vuelta where he attacked, attacked and attacked again was probably more exciting that the entire second week of the le Tour.

Except to some of us it wasn't that exciting - pointless little attacks that were easily reeled back in - if one of them had stuck then maybe...

Le Commentateur

I thought he was just doing training intervals on Monday's stage.

andrewjoseph

he's getting cramps, he's got a rusty ring. does someone need to explain to him how to use electrolytes? ;-)