Vuelta Stage 4 *Spoiler*
Comments
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I think there’s a misconception here – if you mean the GC contenders, I think they rarely want to race in the first week, thus why yesterday was refreshing. If you mean other riders, didn’t the break attack and in the end Clarke get a reward – his first ever win as a professional?Turfle wrote:it's stage 4, and the riders want to race, so why provide a parcours that not only doesn't reward attacking riding, but discourages it?
If that was stage 15, and it had become clear who the GC riders are, when better riders are allowed in the breaks, and when tired legs need an easy stage, then fine. But this was day 4.
Waste. Waste. Waste.
Break members Martin, Mate and Bazayev also aren't riders one can dismiss as outside the group of 'better riders', whatever you mean with that - few breaks include potential GC winners (although Pereiro did it and Kivilev would have, if the TdF organisation hadn't extended the time limit as exception).
Anyway I see nothing wrong in stages of any tour wearing down the fresh legs before the later critical stages – a stage race isn’t a series of one-day races clumped together.
I don’t think the parcours discouraged attacking riding from the peloton either, towards the finish isn’t that what Contador had a go at, just to see how successful it might be.
I agree that apart from following how the break got on, the stage wasn’t that interesting until the crash, but that was bound to be the case given the often boring terrain and straight roads they had to cover.
But later, wasn’t there also a degree of suspense (will Valverde make it back, will Clarke and Martin hang on), psychological play (Contador versus Froome), gambling (Rodriquez that C and F wouldn’t stay away), a mystery (why BMC joined in with Sky and Katusha doing work at the front), a bit of bravado (Roche going clear from C & F), several fails (Euskatel couldn’t stay with the C & F front group, Gadret, VdB), two phoenix moments (Gesink is possibly for once in form in a GT, Gerdemann still exists), some thought revisions (maybe Cobo and Talansky are up to it after all) and to complete it, at the finish a wonderful exhibition of joy (as Marcos Garcia crossed the line).0 -
AndyRAC wrote:Yellow Peril wrote:Great stage, things being turned on their head... superb.
Perhaps a bit of Karma for Valverde.
Hmm, I thought that. 2009 Sierra Nevada....don't remember him waiting for Evans...
Or Paris Nice this year, wasn't it Movistar on the front after Leipheimer crashed whilst in 3rd place on GC?0 -
Talansky still there. Kreder pulled him from the 2nd group to the first - huge domestique skills.Contador is the Greatest0
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I could only watch it intermittently
- how did the crash come about? Up to it happening Movistar were up front with Sky, so why were only Movistar plus Capecchi (Liquigas) affected (I heard not just Valverde went down, but other Movistar riders too)?
– how did it come about that Contador and Froome sat up a few kms before the finish? When Roche went, did Contador decide not to follow and that was that, Froome just being the heel dog?0 -
We didn't see them sit up but Froome and Roche looked to be willing to work and if anything it looked as though Contador was a little reluctant to contribute (no doubt because their lead was only about 7 seconds ahead of the Katusha led bunch) so I'd guess he instigated a sit up but they could have simply been caught.knedlicky wrote:I could only watch it intermittently
– how did it come about that Contador and Froome sat up a few kms before the finish? When Roche went, did Contador decide not to follow and that was that, Froome just being the heel dog?0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:AndyRAC wrote:Yellow Peril wrote:Great stage, things being turned on their head... superb.
Perhaps a bit of Karma for Valverde.
Hmm, I thought that. 2009 Sierra Nevada....don't remember him waiting for Evans...
Or Paris Nice this year, wasn't it Movistar on the front after Leipheimer crashed whilst in 3rd place on GC?
Could be a bit of Pro cycling fight club tomorrow in the circuit race. I bet Valv tries to stick a lolly stick in Flecha's wheel.0 -
Valverde's comments are pretty funny:
Sky went to form an echelon, which is their right. But what they can't do is put that echelon through the middle of the peloton. They caused the crash and then they had the cojones not to stop.Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Valverde's comments are pretty funny:
Sky went to form an echelon, which is their right. But what they can't do is put that echelon through the middle of the peloton. They caused the crash and then they had the cojones not to stop.
He aso said...
“Sky formed an echelon and they’re perfectly within their rights to do that. I’m not cross that I lost the lead because of this, but because there was no respect.”
Lack of respect? Not sure what he means, is this down to a bad translation.0 -
knedlicky wrote:I think there’s a misconception here – if you mean the GC contenders, I think they rarely want to race in the first week, thus why yesterday was refreshing. If you mean other riders, didn’t the break attack and in the end Clarke get a reward – his first ever win as a professional?
Break members Martin, Mate and Bazayev also aren't riders one can dismiss as outside the group of 'better riders', whatever you mean with that - few breaks include potential GC winners (although Pereiro did it and Kivilev would have, if the TdF organisation hadn't extended the time limit as exception).
Anyway I see nothing wrong in stages of any tour wearing down the fresh legs before the later critical stages – a stage race isn’t a series of one-day races clumped together.
I don’t think the parcours discouraged attacking riding from the peloton either, towards the finish isn’t that what Contador had a go at, just to see how successful it might be.
I agree that apart from following how the break got on, the stage wasn’t that interesting until the crash, but that was bound to be the case given the often boring terrain and straight roads they had to cover.
But later, wasn’t there also a degree of suspense (will Valverde make it back, will Clarke and Martin hang on), psychological play (Contador versus Froome), gambling (Rodriquez that C and F wouldn’t stay away), a mystery (why BMC joined in with Sky and Katusha doing work at the front), a bit of bravado (Roche going clear from C & F), several fails (Euskatel couldn’t stay with the C & F front group, Gadret, VdB), two phoenix moments (Gesink is possibly for once in form in a GT, Gerdemann still exists), some thought revisions (maybe Cobo and Talansky are up to it after all) and to complete it, at the finish a wonderful exhibition of joy (as Marcos Garcia crossed the line).
Well it's a given that on every stage somebody attacks and somebody wins.
If the idea was to give the GC riders an easy day, then make it a sprint stage. If you want the GC riders to ride then make the finish harder. A long, low gradient climb, with an almost flat finish is utterly pointless. I just don't understand what that stage was doing on day 4 of a GT. What was the point of it? It was a parcours suited to 2nd or 3rd week.
What happened today was Katusha set a steady pace for the entire climb, only strong enough to whittle the group down to 25, with the climb itself ensuring there was no point in attacking that pace, and 27 riders ended up finishing within seconds of each other. I can only imagine the reaction had that happened in the Tour. Not quite so positive perhaps.
Froome and Contador sat up as turning themselves inside out for a handful of seconds over 25 riders was no reward. When possibly the two strongest climbers in the race sit up, and roll in with a group of 25, you know the climb is pointless.
Honestly, I don't think finishing in a 27 man group with the likes of Cardoso, Bakelants, and Morabito tells us much about Gesink, Cobo, or Talansky.
Anyway, here's hoping for better tomorrow.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Valverde's comments are pretty funny:
Sky went to form an echelon, which is their right. But what they can't do is put that echelon through the middle of the peloton. They caused the crash and then they had the cojones not to stop.
You must have some telly! That HD is something special.... :shock:0 -
Adam Hansen @HansenAdam
I don't mind Team Sky putting it in the gutter, but how about next time you don't slam us in the gutter. I'm going for an X Ray....0 -
conversely:
Danny Pate @TheDPate
Went in crosswind first & crash was second, Not the other way around. Flecha had nothing to do with guys crashing themselves behind us
Hayden Roulston @HaydenRoulston
@TheDPate amen0 -
Turfle wrote:Anyway, here's hoping for better tomorrow.
Something tells me you might be disappointed.0 -
Thought it was interesting coming from Hansen, though. Usually the Anglos stick together. Anyway, hope he's OK... he's on for the GT triple this year.0
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Turfle wrote:conversely:
Danny Pate @TheDPate
Went in crosswind first & crash was second, Not the other way around. Flecha had nothing to do with guys crashing themselves behind us
n
Well, Danny Pate is hardly going to tweet "Bwahaha - the fools" before electronically swirling his cape and disappearing into a fog.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
Hayden Roulston doesn't have to agree with Pate though!You live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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Yes, tomorrow it's basically a Vattenfall-type criterium. And the day after will perhaps be similar to today.greasedscotsman wrote:
Something tells me you might be disappointed.Turfle wrote:Anyway, here's hoping for better tomorrow.0 -
Not much love here for Clarke's sprint. Played that absolutely 100 per cent perfectly, from the dummy to the attack on the left hand bend. Chapeau.0
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With a name like that I'm not surprised you have love for the sprint!Abdoujaparov wrote:Not much love here for Clarke's sprint. Played that absolutely 100 per cent perfectly, from the dummy to the attack on the left hand bend. Chapeau.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:
With a name like that I'm not surprised you have love for the sprint!Abdoujaparov wrote:Not much love here for Clarke's sprint. Played that absolutely 100 per cent perfectly, from the dummy to the attack on the left hand bend. Chapeau.
Ha, I'm actually named after a 90s Indie group
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Great stage, Sky (one way or another) lit up an otherwise boring ride to the moutain but may have curried some negative karma for later in the ride.
Contador seems to have energy to burn ATM, I wonder if he'll be feeling like that in week 3?FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.0 -
Missed everything apart from last 15 mins of highlights, so had to hunt for a clip of the crash.
Can't see Sky slamming anyone into the gutter here.
http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/vuel ... a/1511048/.0 -
Crash happened at very front taking out entire Liquigas and Movistar team, but you can't tell anything much about how it was caused.
Last 10km:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsywnk ... mbediframe
Contador is the Greatest0 -
Have to feel a bit for the Caja Rural rider, must have thought he'd really hit the big time there."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0
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That did make me laugh seeing him celebrate like he had won the stage, maybe he actually really thought he had? He did nip away from the Froome bunch quite late so it was a good effort to get the 4th place..0
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Abdoujaparov wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:
With a name like that I'm not surprised you have love for the sprint!Abdoujaparov wrote:Not much love here for Clarke's sprint. Played that absolutely 100 per cent perfectly, from the dummy to the attack on the left hand bend. Chapeau.
Ha, I'm actually named after a 90s Indie group
Ah, a Fruitbat fan??
Ok, back to the race, shame Sky and BMC worked over Valverde in such a way after a crash. I guess Valverde stuffed Evans in the 2009 Vuelta when Evans punctured so maybe a bit of Karma coming back to haunt him.
Must admit that AC made me laugh yesterday as he still doesn't get the concept of "through on off". By AC's second go on the front, in the breakaway, (with Froomey and Rochey) he tries to miss his turn. Froomey's no fool so tries to get AC to take his turn and then they lose their advantage. If AC played ball then the 3 of them could have got a bit of time on Valverde and Roddy. At least Rochey had the head to take advantage of the situation. I do wonder with AC. :?“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein
"You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
-Jacques Anquetil0 -
Someone needs to stop all this 'can't attack the leader or favourites' malarkey. Does it only apply to the race leader? What if the race leader is a sprinter? What if it's the bloke in 9th on GC who is waiting for stage 21 to ride up a mountain and take back the 2'03" he's currently down? What about if it's the GC leaders appointed climbing domestique? Or the winner of the last grand tour who is lying in 12 place on GC in this race? What type of crash counts as cause for waiting? Do you only wait if the rider in question didn't cause it? How long do you wait? What if a break is up the road with someone in 29th place 3'00" down on GC but you wait as the GC leader is down but he's broken his collar bone and you've wasted 5'00" waiting? Do wait if the GC rider who crashed is past his peak but has won the race 3 times previously, out of respect? Where is the difference between respect and hard racing that results in something unlucky happening to a rider? Surely this type of terrible luck is just part of bike racing; it's a hard sport with harder luck sometimes. Race your bikes.0
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All good points that I can't really disagree with.
Above all, even if the crash had happened before the attack, rather than after, and even if Sky, BMC and everyone else had really taken the p1ss and turned the rest of the stage into a multi-team TT, Movistar should be the last team in the world to be complaining about anyone gunning it on the front after a crash.N00b commuter with delusions of competence
FCN 11 - If you scalp me, do I not bleed?0 -
Maybe Movistar shouldn't have been riding so close to the gutter. Can't see Sky did anything to cause the pile up, just someone went down when trying to respond to the Sky attack, and took down the others.
Can a DS be brought to account on a charge of disrepute by ASO/UCI as in other sports? What the Movistar DS was saying after was well out of order, IMO.0 -
Dorset Boy wrote:
Can a DS be brought to account on a charge of disrepute by ASO/UCI as in other sports? What the Movistar DS was saying after was well out of order, IMO.
Why? It's all part of the fun and games.0
