Union Flag/ St George Flag Design on Helemts
Comments
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Rick Chasey wrote:rjsterry wrote:
I dunno, you seem pretty proud of being British based on the above. The flag is a symbol of the country, so why is waving the flag not saying that you are proud of British justice, fair play and social responsibility?
S'all about context though.
For an event - sporting, royal occasions etc, it's cool and the gang.
Elsewhere it's a political statement.
It's a positive political statement though, isn't it?
I mean, in a hypothetical flag-off, I'd rather wave the Union Flag or St George's (which, to my mind, say "democracy, meritocracy, liberty and freedom, inclusiveness, compassion and self reflection) than, say the DPRK or Iranian flags (which sadly, for now, do not). Why not advertise to the world that we have a great system going on here (not one without its faults, of course, but at least we are allowed to reflect on that). Granted, a bunch of St G tattooed morons smashing up other peoples' cities isn't a great advert for our way of life, but a ground swell of civil, educated sorts showing confidence and faith in our nation and our way of life might actually go some small way towards encouraging those in power in less privileged societies to reflect on the differences.0 -
*shrugs* only in a theoretical sense.
Cheering on GB athletes with a GB flag isn't as much of a political statement as hanging an English flag out of your window when there's no football on.0 -
Somewhat surprisingly, there are quite a few of these on our roads. Where on the political spectrum do I expect the drivers to be?
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Have I not drawn an explicit distinction enough between the union jack and st. Georges cross?
I might start quoting myself.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Have I not drawn an explicit distinction enough between the union jack and st. Georges cross?
I might start quoting myself.
But you still keep calling it the Union Jack and it's only called that when flown from the bowspirt of a ship. Its the Union flag in all other circumstances.
/Pedant mode
/Mode Off
## Mmnnnngggghhhh0 -
There are two St. George crosses and at least three Union flags, plus a few Scottish ones too on my street. Doesn't bother me one little bit and it is a happy little street with no confrontation or animosity.Rick Chasey wrote:*shrugs* only in a theoretical sense.
Cheering on GB athletes with a GB flag isn't as much of a political statement as hanging an English flag out of your window when there's no football on.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
rjsterry wrote:notsoblue wrote:Trinbago flag cufflinks.
A nice bit of subtle, non-vulgar flag-waving. Very tasteful :P
Quite. We all wave flags every day. The kit Nazis bang on about it being vulgar to wear pro-team kit, but then wear a Rapha-branded top and a LMNH cap or what-have-you. It's all about showing to which club you belong/aspire. Rick wears deck shoes to be associated with the Fulham trendies.
Is Rapha/LMNH/Fulham trendies a better thing to support and advertise than British society?0 -
Ah, I give up.
If you don't see people being associated with far right views EDL when you're walking around with a st.georges cross on your helmet then fair enough.
I know I would, and I'm pretty certain anyone in my circle would do the same.
That's the point. You can argue till the cows come home about whether that's right or not, but ultimately, that's what the symbol has become - and it's not like people who want to celebrate said identity without those connotations don't have an alternative - the GB/UK flag.0 -
But what about being English?Rick Chasey wrote:That's the point. You can argue till the cows come home about whether that's right or not, but ultimately, that's what the symbol has become - and it's not like people who want to celebrate said identity without those connotations don't have an alternative - the GB/UK flag.
Or when England play Scotland for example? The Union flag should not represent England in that case.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Ah, I give up.
If you don't see people being associated with far right views EDL when you're walking around with a st.georges cross on your helmet then fair enough.
I know I would, and I'm pretty certain anyone in my circle would do the same.
That's the point. You can argue till the cows come home about whether that's right or not, but ultimately, that's what the symbol has become - and it's not like people who want to celebrate said identity without those connotations don't have an alternative - the GB/UK flag.
Of course you're right (correct). It's a shame, that's all. Having said that, St.G is irrelevant anyway, given that GB=England to half the world's population.0 -
daviesee wrote:
But what about being English?Rick Chasey wrote:That's the point. You can argue till the cows come home about whether that's right or not, but ultimately, that's what the symbol has become - and it's not like people who want to celebrate said identity without those connotations don't have an alternative - the GB/UK flag.
Or when England play Scotland for example? The Union flag should not represent England in that case.
No, and it doesn't.
Hence my comment about context.
That national football is used as a vehicle for that kind of behaviour though isn't particularly coincidental.0 -
Strange that Englishmen see the English flag as racist but a Scot doesn't.
I can see the whole BNP thing etc but I also see that they do not represent the majority of Englishmen.
Oh well............do carry on.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
daviesee wrote:Strange that Englishmen see the English flag as racist but a Scot doesn't.
I can see the whole BNP thing etc but I also see that they do not represent the majority of Englishmen.
Oh well............do carry on.
*checks passport*
Dutch innit.
Again though, that's context.
To a Scot, that flag distinction is a Scottish separatist issue.
To some chump in the SE who doesn't care about Scotland...0 -
I knew that but you have been skirting round it on this thread and it wasn't necessarily all about you.Rick Chasey wrote:daviesee wrote:Strange that Englishmen see the English flag as racist but a Scot doesn't.
I can see the whole BNP thing etc but I also see that they do not represent the majority of Englishmen.
Oh well............do carry on.
*checks passport*
Dutch innit. None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
No. It is not a seperatist issue. The Union flag is just that, a flag representing the Union. All the Countries have their own flags and identities. The Welsh, Irish and Scots do not have a problem with this, only some English (and Dutch) do.Rick Chasey wrote:Again though, that's context.
To a Scot, that flag distinction is a Scottish separatist issue.
To some chump in the SE who doesn't care about Scotland...None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
Too true.vermin wrote:Of course you're right (correct). It's a shame, that's all. Having said that, St.G is irrelevant anyway, given that GB=England to half the world's population.
A (vaguely remembered) converation while in Canada.
"Where in England do you come from?"
"I don't. I come from outside Edinburgh, in Scotland."
"But where in England is Scotland?"
"Scotland is a part of Great Britain."
"But where in England is Great Britain?"
:shock: :? :shock:None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:
but ultimately, that's what the symbol has become
To you and your friends maybe. Some people are not willing to give up their flag to a load of right wing idiots . Surely you can tell the difference between those that use the flag.
Bad
Good
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Bloody foreigners, coming here, taking our jobs.Rick Chasey wrote:*checks passport*
Dutch innit.0 -
notsoblue wrote:
Bloody foreigners, coming here, taking our jobs.Rick Chasey wrote:*checks passport*
Dutch innit.
Daviesee has left the building. Have fun...........None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
Cornerblock wrote:
Ergh. Those vile racists.0 -
Two blonde haired blue eyed proto-fascists.Peat wrote:Cornerblock wrote:
Ergh. Those vile racists.0 -
Far right nationalist parties/groups associate themselves with 'their' national flag. It's what they do as 'nationalists'.
I'm sure the French/Dutch/German/Polish/Spanish etc far right all use their national flag heavily in 'literature', just like the EDL do when they're out with their 'Sport are troops' banners.0 -
bails87 wrote:Far right nationalist parties/groups associate themselves with 'their' national flag. It's what they do as 'nationalists'.
I'm sure the French/Dutch/German/Polish/Spanish etc far right all use their national flag heavily in 'literature', just like the EDL do when they're out with their 'Sport are troops' banners.
http://www.pvv.nl/
Not especially.0 -
Bit OT, but... Are they really looking to take away Badr Hari's Dutch nationality and deport him for an assault conviction? Can they do that if he was born in NL?Rick Chasey wrote:
Also, I like the fact that the PVV mascot is Kehaar from Watership Down.0 -
notsoblue wrote:
Bit OT, but... Are they really looking to take away Badr Hari's Dutch nationality and deport him for an assault conviction? Can they do that if he was born in NL?Rick Chasey wrote:
Also, I like the fact that the PVV mascot is Kehaar from Watership Down.
Err. Yes.
Can they do that? I'm virtually certain they can't.
It's a weird one though because it was basically a fight club style set up, and it's only now the victim has come forward, with the PVV all over it as soon as he mentioned it...0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:As an ethnic minority living in the major city...
To be fair, that's a bit of a freakin misnomer where London is concerned.Ben
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It's part of the French NF's logo, Ithere are plenty of German flags at this NPD rally. But that's the end of my research into the far right in Europe!Rick Chasey wrote:bails87 wrote:Far right nationalist parties/groups associate themselves with 'their' national flag. It's what they do as 'nationalists'.
I'm sure the French/Dutch/German/Polish/Spanish etc far right all use their national flag heavily in 'literature', just like the EDL do when they're out with their 'Sport are troops' banners.
http://www.pvv.nl/
Not especially.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:bails87 wrote:Far right nationalist parties/groups associate themselves with 'their' national flag. It's what they do as 'nationalists'.
I'm sure the French/Dutch/German/Polish/Spanish etc far right all use their national flag heavily in 'literature', just like the EDL do when they're out with their 'Sport are troops' banners.
http://www.pvv.nl/
Not especially.
Vlaams Belang's logo is based on the Flemish flag and they are pretty much a Flemish parallel of the BNP.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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