Union Flag/ St George Flag Design on Helemts

dhope

spen666 wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

dhope wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

Peat wrote:

IN-GER-LUND, IN-GER-LUND, IN-GER-LUND!

Oi oi!

This is a tricky one. I can't work out if you are a racist moron, or a moron pretending to be racist and associating any interest in the country's flag as a sign of being a racist. One things for sure, you do come across as a moron.

I'd generally avoid wearing anything with a St Georges cross for fear of being thought of like I generally think of those that wear anything with a St George's cross. I don't particularly 'get' patriotism though <shrug>

I probably wouldn't wear large flag emblems on my clothes either, and there are certain brands of clothing I would not be seen dead in because of their association with certain tribal groups. We should however not give up the flag to the racist idiots, and make any one who feels pride in showing it be ashamed to do so. Patriotism does not have to be a dirty word, the Olympics has shown that.

+1

I thought we did a fabulous job with the Olympics and there are a few/some/many other things we do very well that I can't be arsed to think of for this point. That doesn't make me proud to be British though because I don't see what I've contributed to that. I can appreciate a job well done and am fortunate to live in a country that, by and large, has things pretty well sorted. I'll cheer on England when we're playing football because they're my local team, and I'll cheer on Spurs because my Dad did and it's fun to pick someone to root for. But proud to be British... nah, that's just not the word I'd use.
And there's nothing narrow minded about noticing the tabloid In-ger-land sense of entitlement that comes with their plastering St George's across the front covers and wanting to distance myself from it.

(Yes, I know I'm using the word 'we' to mean England/Britain despite saying I'm not too fussed. Again, they're the local team so there's some association and it's easy to use the word)

rick_chasey

*shrugs*

as long as you're comfortable with being associated with that.

rebs

meh I think anyone these days that still wants to associate the Flag of England as racist.... Year there are those that do. But should NOT be a determind thing to work out.

I've always had a little Union Jack flag on my desk at work for years I've had the odd snide remark accusing me of being racist. I'm not and doesn't bother me. Same way epoepl think I'm gay when I'm not. Although this bothers me even less as I've been informed by a gay friend it is cool to be gay... fashion these days I'll never keep up!

notsoblue

spen666 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Maybe the EDL has a cycling sub forum?

What has a cycling helmet with a Union Flag design got to do with the EDL?

They're quite keen on plastering flags over themselves, I figured their forum would be a good place to look if you wanted a flag related item of clothing or apparel.

Actually, I've been scouring the net for a Trinidad & Tobago flag jersey to no avail and will probably resort to designing one myself. For patriotic reasons and because it matches my bike.

rick_chasey

rebs wrote:

meh I think anyone these days that still wants to associate the Flag of England as racist.... Year there are those that do. But should NOT be a determind thing to work out.

I've always had a little Union Jack flag on my desk at work for years I've had the odd snide remark accusing me of being racist. I'm not and doesn't bother me. Same way epoepl think I'm gay when I'm not. Although this bothers me even less as I've been informed by a gay friend it is cool to be gay... fashion these days I'll never keep up!

Who knew gay was the new racist?

rick_chasey

notsoblue wrote:

spen666 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Maybe the EDL has a cycling sub forum?

What has a cycling helmet with a Union Flag design got to do with the EDL?

They're quite keen on plastering flags over themselves, I figured their forum would be a good place to look if you wanted a flag related item of clothing or apparel.

Actually, I've been scouring the net for a Trinidad & Tobago flag jersey to no avail and will probably resort to designing one myself. For patriotic reasons and because it matches my bike.

And other kit...

rebs

aye so in summery my identify at work rings out as gay-racist-weekend warrior-lycra lout.

dhope

rebs wrote:

meh I think anyone these days that still wants to associate the Flag of England as racist.... Year there are those that do. But should NOT be a determind thing to work out.

I've always had a little Union Jack flag on my desk at work for years I've had the odd snide remark accusing me of being racist. I'm not and doesn't bother me. Same way epoepl think I'm gay when I'm not. Although this bothers me even less as I've been informed by a gay friend it is cool to be gay... fashion these days I'll never keep up!

I think you should play up the gay racist angle, the idea amuses me

tailwindhome

Well it's a new twist on the helmet debate anyway?



I'd have thought getting a GB/England cycling jersey would have been an easier task......and cheaper to post too.

rick_chasey

TailWindHome wrote:

Well it's a new twist on the helmet debate anyway?



I'd have thought getting a GB/England cycling jersey would have been an easier task......and cheaper to post too.

Hang on.

Have we just be trolled?

Helmets. Racism.


:?:

kelsen

TailWindHome wrote:

Well it's a new twist on the helmet debate anyway?



I'd have thought getting a GB/England cycling jersey would have been an easier task......and cheaper to post too.

But would it save you from serious injury in the event of an accident?

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

spen666 wrote:

dhope wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

Peat wrote:

IN-GER-LUND, IN-GER-LUND, IN-GER-LUND!

Oi oi!

This is a tricky one. I can't work out if you are a racist moron, or a moron pretending to be racist and associating any interest in the country's flag as a sign of being a racist. One things for sure, you do come across as a moron.

I'd generally avoid wearing anything with a St Georges cross for fear of being thought of like I generally think of those that wear anything with a St George's cross. I don't particularly 'get' patriotism though <shrug>

That is a sad reflection on your narrow mindedness not on anyone else

If you think people won't judge you in the ways described with said St. George's attire, then you're being a little obtuse...

"Normal" people (for want of a better term) avoiding the Union Flag or St George's flag only reinforces it's association with the far right. BTW, the English don't have an exclusive claim to St George or his flag. St George is also unusual in being one of the few Christian saints also acknowledged by Islam.

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

"Normal" people (for want of a better term) avoiding the Union Flag or St George's flag only reinforces it's association with the far right. BTW, the English don't have an exclusive claim to St George or his flag. St George is also unusual in being one of the few Christian saints also acknowledged by Islam.

Sure, but you can't manufacture the social mainstream re-appropriation of a flag.

Social mainstream 'inclusive' nationalist pride is increasingly becoming associated with the union jack, (especially through the royal hoo-ha the last two years as well as the olympics) so there's no real social-mainstream need or want for a re-appropriation of the st. Geroge's beyond a specific fringe that is both against the far right appropriation and is still strongly "English", as opposed to British (which let's face it, is pretty niche).

davis

dhope wrote:

I thought we did a fabulous job with the Olympics and there are a few/some/many other things we do very well that I can't be arsed to think of for this point. That doesn't make me proud to be British though because I don't see what I've contributed to that. I can appreciate a job well done and am fortunate to live in a country that, by and large, has things pretty well sorted. I'll cheer on England when we're playing football because they're my local team, and I'll cheer on Spurs because my Dad did and it's fun to pick someone to root for. But proud to be British... nah, that's just not the word I'd use.
And there's nothing narrow minded about noticing the tabloid In-ger-land sense of entitlement that comes with their plastering St George's across the front covers and wanting to distance myself from it.

(Yes, I know I'm using the word 'we' to mean England/Britain despite saying I'm not too fussed. Again, they're the local team so there's some association and it's easy to use the word)

This. That's exactly how I feel, and very well put.

I've never understand why people say "we did really well in the $sport last night"... I certainly didn't; I wasn't there.

Sure, I'm deeply impressed by the performance of the British athletes etc, and I think the Olympics was really, really well organized (plus the BBC deserve a standing ovation for what has been probably the best coverage and website of a large event I've ever seen). But does any of that make me proud to be from England rather than say from Germany or any other country? Nah, not really.

daviesee

Paul E

FLAG

peat

Cornerblock wrote:

Peat wrote:

IN-GER-LUND, IN-GER-LUND, IN-GER-LUND!

Oi oi!

This is a tricky one. I can't work out if you are a racist moron, or a moron pretending to be racist and associating any interest in the country's flag as a sign of being a racist. One things for sure, you do come across as a moron.

cornerblock

Peat wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

Peat wrote:

IN-GER-LUND, IN-GER-LUND, IN-GER-LUND!

Oi oi!

This is a tricky one. I can't work out if you are a racist moron, or a moron pretending to be racist and associating any interest in the country's flag as a sign of being a racist. One things for sure, you do come across as a moron.

Well I was right about one thing.

spen666

Rick Chasey wrote:

*shrugs*

as long as you're comfortable with being associated with that.

The association is in your narrow prejudiced mind.

I'm not giving my national identity away to racists. Your approach is surrendering to the racists. Why?

dhope

spen666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

*shrugs*

as long as you're comfortable with being associated with that.

The association is in your narrow prejudiced mind.

I'm not giving my national identity away to racists. Your approach is surrendering to the racists. Why?

I also don't wear England shirts because they look shit, but mainly for the reasons in my last post.

rick_chasey

spen666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

*shrugs*

as long as you're comfortable with being associated with that.

The association is in your narrow prejudiced mind.

I'm not giving my national identity away to racists. Your approach is surrendering to the racists. Why?

Surrendering what?

sketchley

Morrissey had a good rant about the Olympics that seems relevant to this, not that I share his opinion or actually care in the slightest, but it might stir up the thread a little.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/au ... mpic-games

On a different note I quite like that kask helmet, I also like the gb road jersey but that doesn't come in fb size..... Apparently only thin people want to wear it.....

greg66_tri_v2.0

Morrissey is a gobby twāt.

spen666

Rick Chasey wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

*shrugs*

as long as you're comfortable with being associated with that.

The association is in your narrow prejudiced mind.

I'm not giving my national identity away to racists. Your approach is surrendering to the racists. Why?

Surrendering what?

national identity, our flag etc

Gazzaputt

DonDaddyD wrote:

spen666 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Maybe the EDL has a cycling sub forum?

What has a cycling helmet with a Union Flag design got to do with the EDL?

Sadly people associate the Union Jack with the more right wing aspects of our society. Almost that one should be ashamed to fly the flag. I've waved the British flag before, I didn't feel anymore evil.

In any case I wish you well with your search. Still, I'm curious, why?

You'll find the St George Cross more associated with the far right than the Union Jack.

Love the Kask helmet counting the pennies in the piggy bank.

mudcow007

i cant understand why flying a flag would deem you racist

although i had the same conversation with my mrs the other night, as there is a house down the road from us who was flying a huge union jack during the Olympics

rick_chasey

mudcow007 wrote:

i cant understand why flying a flag would deem you racist

So.

Tempted.

To.

Invoke.

Goodwin's.

Law.

DonDaddyD

As an ethnic minority living in the major city, I would argue that the Union Jack is associated with the BNP and other far right elements within this society. My perception is that because of the very British nature of not wanting to offend, instead of directly confront these notions, the issue has been largely avoided. This only strengthens the association of the Union jack and far right politics/fundmentalists, well in my mind at least. The flag itself is not a symbol of racism not in the same way the Swastika (once and still a symbol of luck) is (in the Western World).

St George's Cross I think is more associated with football as that is where it is used most. Sadly football has spent too many years hindered by louts and unsavory behaviour. I wouldn't associated that flag with far right groups.

HOWEVER, just because these symbols have been appropriated by negative aspects of society doesn't mean they should be avoided at all costs. Half the problem with this Country is that many are too quick to apologise for being who they are (British), their culture and/or spend too much time being preoccupied with what others think and not what their own actions represent - surrending the national identity, pride, culture.

[This is where I am now going to rant]

I can't help feel that this has lead to a lost generation. I can't help feel that a sense of national pride would have led to less people rioting. There are too many people who do not really know what was and is great about this Country and who are simply do not want to be proud of it. Why? There is real value to living here and people take it for granted. People should be proud to live here, people should appreciate it and value it. Has Mo Farrah's story not taught anyone anything? What? Do you think he would have had half the opportunities he has had had he not left Somalia?

People often take the Rick Chasey stance; turning their noses up to this Country, apologising for it, spending their time trying not to be associated with it. That in my mind does more damage to the culture and perception of this Country than the racists who claim to be proud of it. We know the latter are idiots but if your average (in terms of demographics) citizen is ashamed to be British, apologises for its culture then something must be fundamentally wrong. Sadly there is nothing wrong with Britain accept for the people who feel they should be ashamed of it when they have no real reason to.

More people should be more like Spen666.

Britian is great. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. "Rule motherfucking Britainia".

rick_chasey

Hang on.

What am I apologising for now?

rjsterry

davis wrote:

dhope wrote:

I thought we did a fabulous job with the Olympics and there are a few/some/many other things we do very well that I can't be arsed to think of for this point. That doesn't make me proud to be British though because I don't see what I've contributed to that. I can appreciate a job well done and am fortunate to live in a country that, by and large, has things pretty well sorted. I'll cheer on England when we're playing football because they're my local team, and I'll cheer on Spurs because my Dad did and it's fun to pick someone to root for. But proud to be British... nah, that's just not the word I'd use.
And there's nothing narrow minded about noticing the tabloid In-ger-land sense of entitlement that comes with their plastering St George's across the front covers and wanting to distance myself from it.

(Yes, I know I'm using the word 'we' to mean England/Britain despite saying I'm not too fussed. Again, they're the local team so there's some association and it's easy to use the word)

This. That's exactly how I feel, and very well put.

I've never understand why people say "we did really well in the $sport last night"... I certainly didn't; I wasn't there.

Sure, I'm deeply impressed by the performance of the British athletes etc, and I think the Olympics was really, really well organized (plus the BBC deserve a standing ovation for what has been probably the best coverage and website of a large event I've ever seen). But does any of that make me proud to be from England rather than say from Germany or any other country? Nah, not really.

Symbolism innit. Olympic athletes are frequently referred to as representing their country (i.e. the British population/culture, rather than the geographic area); they are a product of the country of which we are all part and to which we contribute. Even if all you've done is contribute some tax towards the funding of the Olympics and the training of the athletes (or maybe via your Sky subscription in the case of cycling), then I think you can justifiably take pride in the achievements of the country even if you were not directly involved.