Mud Sweat & Gears 20....13!!!

anet367

bigdawg wrote:

If anyone does have any complaints always email Matt andthe team at MS&Gs - they have in the past always helped me and sorted some things out in the past.

A few people spoke to Matt & G on the day - they didn't want to know.

It was a pretty rapid course which didn't help matters as the fast guys were lapping in well under 20 mins, so thats why so few vets got to do their 5th lap...

With over a 6 minute head start it is no wonder the lead elite rider lapped so many vet riders.

pilch

anet367 wrote:

A few people spoke to Matt & G on the day - they didn't want to know.

Can't say I blame them, all the effort that goes into these races, not just the days of course preparation, but logistics, planning etc... I don't think i'd want to have an ear bashing straight after that either

anet367

Not an ear bashing!! More feedback, which they should be open to.

People do appreciate the effort that goes into these races (and often help out too!!), but without people happy to race this series and getting a decent race out of it, they wouldn't be able to happen.

stylish

I would find it strange that we were all given the same start point on time (Vet/Elite/Expert) as Steve james came past me while i was on my 3rd lap, whereas Paul Ashby while i was near the end of my 4th, he was then on his 5th and final lap making him the Vets winner, to say i was pleased to see him come past is an understatement.

But it wouldnt be the first time i have seen some random timing to be fair, MSG at Thetford 2 years ago, and some riders were pulled in as they had finished, but others were left to carry on, gaining places in the process.

evo3ben

I think Matt and G struggled with the venue to be honest and tried to make the best of what they had. It was all a bit cramped especially in the morning with the kids practice and racing. It just didn't fit. I don't think it will be on the venue list for next year.

sdminus

They did the best they could with what was available. Even in the national champs there was confusion with back markers. I think some people need to take it for what it is... Ie a predominant armature mtb race. The race and organisation gets a thumbs up from me. They have learned and progressed from 2012. Well done to the MSG crew for a friendly and well run event.

Pablo 4

I'd agree with Anet 367, I appreciate the effort that goes in to race organisation and think that on the whole the MSG team did a good job. The race timing is difficult to understand though, the pre race information pack quoted the Olympic regulations (see below) which state that the race ends when the leader of the category you are in finishes their race. Vet or Grand Vet riders that set off 5 mins later than the Elite riders surely can't be judged to be in the same category.

5.7.7 In cross country Olympic format events, when the race leader of a category finishes the race, all other riders in the same category shall also finish their race when they next cross the finish line. They shall be awarded their race position and, where appropriate, be classified according to the number of laps down on the winner. (MSG Ahead of the game yet again!)

ps. I'm new to internet forums so please be gentle.

anet367

Looks like they have got themselves out of that one by just changing the rule to fit what they want - latest pre-race info for Codham now says:

"5.7.7 In cross country Olympic format events, when the race leader of a category finishes the race, all other riders in the same category shall also finish their race when they next cross the
finish line. They shall be awarded their race position and, where appropriate, be classified according to the number of laps down on the winner. (In the 2pm race at MSG we classify the race
leader as the first rider across the line at the end of the first lap. This will generally be an Elite/Expert rider. We will tyry and keep time gaps between categories down to a minimum however,
safety is our main concern)."

bigdawg

Im not sure what youd be wanting then to do though tbh - it makes sense that the (in theory) slower riders start behind the faster riders - Having had experience of some very fast grand vets with their race head on literally riding over a crashed rider, and being pushed off course myself, it is the safest option - other thana mass start with seeding area/lap, which a lot of venues couldn't accomodate.

Theyve prob added that after reading the comments tbh - I know they def used to read the forum.

anet367

But the slower riders are not starting after the faster riders. After the Elite/Expert category probably the next fastest category is the Vets & Grand Vets and they started after Sport.

The Midland XC races are classed as XCO and if you look at the results on Timelaps it was based on a category by category race leader finish, therefore I wonder why MSG can't follow this.

bigdawg

On paper at least sport should be the next fastest category - and the largest, definately Id assume that a fit 24 year would beat a vet or grand vet, unless they were silly fast (as the winner of the last masters race was)

The other problem is that at the top o each category youve got some fast guys that are posting laps as fast as the elite, so if theyre racing the same times as elite youre going to be finishing on the same lap anyway - which also goes back to needing an 'expert' category that doesnt require points or a licence.

stylish

Really the class isnt the issue, the fast riders will always come through whatever class they run in, and that gives us all something to aspire too, i know how much effort the Elite winner at Tunstall puts in, and still wonder how he combines running a business, juggling a family and training to the level he does, but good on him, weve known each other since childhood, and he has always done things properly or not at all, and that is what makes him fast and the face he can ride a bike too!

I like the format of MSG, and i think its credit to Matt what him and his team have come up with us for our hobby, he picked up Alistairs batton and ran with it, and each year it just gets bigger and better.

bigdawg

and lets not forget here that if I heard correctly theyve had to independently find a lot of money to run this series this year after a lot of funding expired, hats off to all involved in finding the extra capital for this year...

At the ens of the day, gripes aside, I love this series, whcih is why I start these threads, we don't realise how lucky we are to have these races within a reasonable distance of where we're living - I used to do the nationals SAMS on the 90s and that consisted of at least two days of travelling, camping, cooking etcc... before you even got on a bike, something I couldn't even afford to do these days...

stylish

We might not have big hills, we might not have rock strewn trails, but we are lucky to have a few race series, run by enthusiastic volunteers, so we can have that couple of hours a month where we feel like true racers! although we mostly look like people on the verge of a massive heart attack!

sdminus

Moving on ... Does any body know how codham park is shaping up. If its gonna be bad like last year I'm not gonna bother :?: :?: :?:

IhateDNS

Been thinking the same and think it's a no! That sandpit trench put me off grinded away at my bike.
Last year was a pre ride round wasn't MSG midweek blast of years before.

Weffywoo

Well after getting back into riding offroad after 12 years doing triathlon and road time trials I have signed up for Codham.

Really looking forward to it, decided to enter the Vets race just hoping I don't get lapped too many times :shock:

Any advice on etiquette and the course/venue will be greatly appreciated, I am not expecting anything result wise as I always preferred the longer stuff but just wanted to enter an event or two before trying out the longer events

VWsurfbum

Codham is a great course, really love it there but it can get quite muddy.
Nice few techy sections and some open bits, i like it because there's something for everyone.

Weffywoo

After the winter we've had I only know riding in mud
Looking forward to it

VWsurfbum

So Hadleigh has been confirmed, best get your entry in before it sells out.

bigdawg

having had a great ride over the downs at the weekend codham has the potential to be quite dry - but, and a very big but don't forget there is actually a stream that runs through the woods, which could make that just as muddy as before - I may wait for the course set p pics before I enter - cost me a rear mech and new spokes last year...

pilch

bigdawg wrote:

having had a great ride over the downs at the weekend codham has the potential to be quite dry - but, and a very big but don't forget there is actually a stream that runs through the woods, which could make that just as muddy as before - I may wait for the course set p pics before I enter - cost me a rear mech and new spokes last year...

+ mech hanger, chain & chain ring... would be nice to ride it in the dry, looks like a good course

bigdawg

there was one year when it was absolutely blazing hot, but they usedthe full length ofthe woods section and you went through the stream which turned the bottom of the course into hell and the rest of it totally bone dry

Weffywoo

Hmmm certainly looks like my first event will be a baptism of fire!!!!
Also doing the vets race means the rest of the events that day will have churned things up nicely :shock:

bigdawg

quite the opposite - if its not raining and theres no standing water the effect of all the previous bikes and races will actually have flattened a lot of it down. But thats a big if depending on what parts of the woods they use - it is a very good course but its also a very hard one (even withotu the mud!)

Weffywoo

Ah I see, so is it very technical or just challenging with hills etc?

bigdawg

you know what Codham is kind of unique in that it has a bit of everything, there are two distinct parts of the course one is sandy and loose and the other is grass woodland, but other than lungbusting silly hard climbs it really does have a bit of everything

WindyG

I can't decide which bike to use, hardtail or full susser

bigdawg

Ive ridden with both and would personally go withthe hardtail - the softail obviously going to be more comfortable at the end of 2 hours but if it is muddy it will also collect more mud!

WindyG

I'm doing the open 1hr, no where near good enough to ride 2hrs in Vet i'd be near last, i was leaning towards the hardtail as it has a lighter wheel set and is quicker on the flat and yes mud is also a deciding factor.