Mud Sweat & Gears 20....13!!!

berm bandit

Cheers Stylish

......that's right BD, we did and I promise you we are really careful about it too.

With the first A line obstacle, it really wasn't that difficult, it was a line choice, and then simply roll through it. I know a good few people dropped it there, but generally it was about going in a bit too hot or something like that. It definitely needed judgement to get it right, but hugely technical? No. So if anything, it was an overtaking opportunity and no more, i.e. a couple of seconds advantage where you can whip through and get past someone.
The second actually looked a lot worse than it really was, and because you couldn't get as clear look as you approached it messed with the head quite a bit. The climb out after was also substantially more difficult than the one on the B line. So as the race wore on it taxed you more and more. So with that one, we deliberately engineered a greater advantage by opting in to it, I don't think it was anything like 40 seconds, but certainly it was costly time wise. Its quite right and proper that we firstly are inclusive and don't scare people by not offering the alternative, but its also right to build on the technical expectations, and reward technical ability as well as speed, otherwise its Cyclo-cross not MTB. Believe me here in the East we are light years behind the rest of the country in that technical respect generally, and as nation we are light years behind the rest of the world. So it needs doing. the whole emphasis currently in the sport is about technical skill levels, so we're not rowing a solitary canoe.

Anyway onwards and upwards. Next ones Hinchingbrooke hear Huntingdon barely a hummock in sight apparently..... mind you never been there myself, so who knows what I might find when I get there.

evo3ben

Unfortunately i didnt get to do a sighting lap before the race due to time but from the people i spoke to that had, they said that the 2nd technical part was a toughy and that they would not be risking it and using the B line.
On the first lap i decided to try it as i have never had a problem with any techy parts of any of the MSG races and it caught me out. As said, because you cant see the the entrance clearly it does play with your mind and i also had the voices in the back of my head from the guys i spoke to before the race on it being difficult. I turned into the entrance and everything was wrong. My angle, speed and commitment wasnt there and bailed out. Managed to unclip quick enough and run down it lol, not sure how i managed to stay on my feet! After that i took the B line everytime. If i had sessioned it a couple of times before the race then maybe it would have been different.
I know that after the 1st lap i was in 7th position with only 1 guy overtaking me on lap one. I caught him back on the 3rd lap but finished the race in 9th. I was a little mythed how this could be and then i realised that taking the B line lost me a fair chunk of time and a few places.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of riders took the A line on the 2nd tech area as i would prob guess that only around 10-15% of the Open cat used it.

All in all i really enjoyed it, top job once again by the MSG crew!!

berm bandit

Yep, I think you're right evo, not that many open category riders used it. To be honest that's about where it should be too. People ride the open for many reasons, but regardless of why they do, it is not intended to be the top technical category. So in my view if folk are challenging themselves against like abilities then they should find it a bit too much, if not then it will be too easy for the categories that are supposed to be technically out there, if that makes sense.

As a guiding principle, MSG try very hard to be inclusive, without dumbing down. So we try to figure out entertaining loops that are accessible and attractive to all abilities. Personally, I rather liked the 2nd B line, especially the climb up to the sand pit and the switchback across to the little plateau before dropping into the gulley. Not the easiest line to ride, and quite sufficiently testing I felt. (well for me in my dotage anyway)

bigdawg

Im not sure anyone should be complaining about the first pit nothing I haven't seen at a hundred races previously, good idea to route round it on lap one though

Cambridge is too far for me but really looking forward to Langdon hills this year - miised last year's national race as I didn't / sont have a licence and wasn't alowed to race.

berm bandit

I think the reality I’ve learnt over the years is that if you have more one rider in a group you will have a mix of skills and abilities. So the difficulty for us as organisers is pitching things at a level that suits the largest cross section of people that we can. We have been building on and experimenting with the “B” line offer for quite a while, and in an ideal world like to find a formula that we can apply that standardises the approach. Unfortunately, life isn’t like that, so we have to use judgement with all its potential flaws. So bearing that in mind we quite like to kick the ball around as we are doing right now to get a feel for how things are being received and what the opinions are.

Sometimes I might even be provocative to get a debate going for that reason…… hard to believe I know, but true. :shock:

Regarding Langdon, we are planning to use pretty much the same course that we laid out for the Nationals last year. So that should suit your situation quite well. Incidentally, you can enter the Open categories in the XC Series without holding a BC race licence.

bigdawg

Can I just say BB it's good to have you on the forum, I speak to Matt a lot at the Hadleigh meetings, and your comments and input here are welcome - I love this series, although I cant compete in all the races, and long may it continue - just a thanks really for all the work you guys do, and all the moaning you have to put up with afterwards.

grony

bigdawg wrote:

to be fair you did ask on facebook about A lines - and all the replies were positive

This is true, and it's admirable that G asked, however there is a problem here.... not many people are likely to come forward and say publicily "I'm not good enough or too scared to ride technical lines, please keep it tame", whereas lots of people will come out and say "bring it on, I'm well 'ard".

The Open Cat is such a wide mix of abilities, those that should not be in it (glory hunters if you like) to those who really are novices, it's practically impossible to deliver a course to suit everyone.

berm bandit

Can I just say BB it's good to have you on the forum,

Why thank you....... :oops: ........ You're not hitting on me are you? :shock:

whereas lots of people will come out and say "bring it on, I'm well 'ard".

Spot on. I'm well used to that. So we do try very hard to pick up both on the spoken and unspoken signals, and its also why I spend a bit of time lurking in chat rooms. Ultimately, its not about Matt or I, its about the punters, so we do constantly walk the tightrope on trying to balance out the issues. Really the technical/not technical debate is about line choice. We all do it every time we ride, and this is no different. So where we are starting to go is a challenging A line, coupled with a less challenging, but still entertaining B line.

For example at Ickworth we tried about 5 completely different B lines through the 3rd pit, in the end the final one was almost as much fun as the A line, albeit very few riders chose it. Interestingly though we didn't see the 3rd pit as much of a challenge. It only became one when people went through it too hot, at which point it was very deceptive. That was why we took it up the slope a bit after the intial entry by putting a bit of a kink in, i.e. to slow people down.........didn't work though did it??

CUBEical

Go pro hero 3 for rent, capture every part of your race in hd. Your video edited also. Let me know if your interested for more details

WindyG

CUBEical wrote:

Go pro hero 3 for rent, capture every part of your race in hd. Your video edited also. Let me know if your interested for more details

Cameras are not allowed in MSG races.

CUBEical

WindyG wrote:

CUBEical wrote:

Go pro hero 3 for rent, capture every part of your race in hd. Your video edited also. Let me know if your interested for more details

Cameras are not allowed in MSG races.

Really why is that then ? It can not be like that for all race organisers ?

VWsurfbum

I used mine in the enduro today

CUBEical

i was going to say i do not think they would not let you. That is ridiculous that is just like saying your not allowed any bike computer , mobile phone or anything in the race ....

VWsurfbum

http://www.mudsweatgears.co.uk/images/m ... tinfo.pdf3
Point 5.7.12

berm bandit

Could I just point out that 5.7.12 is an extract from the British Cycling regulations, not a rule introduced by MSG?

The note in red regarding cameras is advice to riders of instructions given the British Cycling commissaires at the annual commissaires conference, and again is not a rule imposed by MSG. I suspect, although I don't know for certain, that it has a lot to do with weird and increasing dangerous appendages being bolted onto helmets. It should be noted that the inclusion of you, your bike and your equipment in any BC sanctioned event is now and always has been entirely at the discretion of the commissaire, so this is not new as such. The difference this year being that the comms have been told to look out for it, and that at MSG we have had the foresight to advise riders of that in advance.

sdminus

Why would you need to record you bike race :-/ tbh if you crashed into me with one of those things on your helmet and injured me with you could find your self in trouble in one way or another :!:

CUBEical

sdminus wrote:

Why would you need to record you bike race :-/ tbh if you crashed into me with one of those things on your helmet and injured me with you could find your self in trouble in one way or another :!:

Lol why would I be in trouble? your in a bike race if we crashed we crashed . it going to hurt the same no matter what. Were would you draw the line? Oh your mud guard cut me that shouldn't be allowed on your bike, Oh when we crashed I got my hand caught in your back suspension and it is now broken it your fault. Sounds pretty wet to me. Its a sports camera made for such events why would you not want to record your race a great way of improving and learning. I think your view a bit on the stupid side as people fix stuff to there handle bars ie computers , GPS they will inflict the same amount of damage if any. Find myself in trouble what will you call the police?. Your allowed an opinion i agree with that but that is all I agree with.

CUBEical

VWsurfbum wrote:

http://www.mudsweatgears.co.uk/images/msg_snb2013_preeventinfo.pdf3
Point 5.7.12

The links not there any more ?

berm bandit

It changes for every race, the link you have is for Round 5 at the Secret Nuclear Bunker. Look here http://www.mudsweatgears.co.uk/index.phpand click on Pre event info.

bigdawg

anyone racing yesterday??

berm bandit

Yep several hundred ..... :-)

WindyG

And a great course it was, flat and fast but very easy to mess it up through the twisty wooded sections if you went in too hot. Plan for me was to get into the points, last 1.5 mile was flat out for 6 of us all together I got one place on the last corner but was a little gutted to finish 31st one place outside the points but my best finish yet and I was riding with what I think is a cracked rib and the bumpy grass near the lake was killing me.
Marshals did a great job too in keep everything safe for the riders and general public.

berm bandit

Thank you Windy, glad you enjoyed your day. Very difficult one to promote, but with the outstanding help received from St Ives club we felt it went off pretty well. Shame about the parking issues, but as the saying goes Sh1t happens and you just have to deal with it. I think not cancelling was proven to be the correct option in the end. What? You mean my flat hill? That was a barsteward wasn't it?........ sorry

WindyG

It was nice to have a course like that, it's good to have a mix of the flatter faster ones alongside the more technical courses. I was quite surprised to see a few still struggle with that little ant hill :-) Well it did look like it was dealt with very well, maybe a few extra toilets next time too.

berm bandit

Agreed re the loos. Mind you we were in clover. We actually had hot water to wash with at 6am a previously unknown luxury!! I would also have to do something about that flipping Church clock that announced 4am sufficiently loudly to wake Matt and I both and terminate an already crumby nights sleep two hours early for both of us.

berm bandit

Just a quick heads up that British Cycling (Eastern) are holding an MTB commissaire training course at Hadleigh Old Fire Station, (i.e as in the Olympic Hadleigh) on September 14th.

After a year in which regrettably there have been 3 fatalities at BC sanctioned events, it is very likely that safety standards will of necessity be tightened up. Even though we are very fortunate in this region in that we generally have events that are run to a very high standard we will not be immune to that issue. The commissaires are the eyes of the insurer on the ground in this respect, and it is possible that events will not run without that cover in future. As currently there are only 3 active MTB commissaires in the region to cover a booming MTB scene, it is not overstating the case to say that this is a crisis.

So if you are into your MTB racing in whatever capacity, give it some thought. Its definitely a case of many hands will make like work, and actually it can be very rewarding. (Please note cycling is not like football, officials tend not get abused or given a hard time, if they are the opening sanction is in the order of a multi month ban for the culprit, which of course may well not be unrelated to that lack of abuse!!)

Details are as per the following press release:-

MTB COMMISSAIRES COURSE on Saturday 14th September at Hadleigh Old Fire Station.
As always, the course is FREE and will take around 4 hours of classroom time plus about 40 minutes of pre-course online learning. But you do need to be a BC member to attend.
The MTB race calendar in the region is growing year on year and there are plenty of people with the vision and commitment to keep this progress moving. But, and it is a HUGE but, without more MTB commmissaires the race calendar cannot be sustained at this years level of racing let alone expand in 2014 and beyond.
Trainee commissaires will be supported, mentored and will not be expected to devote large amounts of time or be thrown in at the deep end. And it is possible to combine racing and officiating - as demonstrated this year by one of the regular comms at MSG.
If you are interested please drop me a line at
saraflatt@britishcycling.org.uk

Thanks for reading this.

G

VWsurfbum

I have completely missed out for this weekends race! forgot all about it, been too busy with work and holidays.
Even if i could make it, i'm in no fit state, which is a shame as i really enjoy Langdon course.
Have fun peeps! and remember to get the bottle holders nice and tight to hold the bottles in over the root's!

muddylegs

I take it most the male races are in the afternoon?

VWsurfbum

Ill be heading over with family dog and camera in the afternoon if anyone wants me to get pictures of them?
Good luck.

VWsurfbum

So did it stay dry for the rest of the race? we left after lap 2, kids and dog were starting to get restless.
really wished i'd raced