Mud Sweat & Gears 20....13!!!

WindyG

I had a fantastic time, loved the course, started way down somewhere in the middle, went off as quick as I could taking places on the first corners before the single track and took every chance I could to overtake out of every corner onto a fire road, had a great couple of battles along the way right up to crossing the line to be met with a friendly handshake off the guy I had been racing for half a lap. Only really got slowed up by some the youth racers, not their fault of course and credit to them they do their to keep clear of a lot of rider bearing down on them. I came in 37th which I din't think is bad for only my 7th race. Only negative thing for me is coming down Plum Buster and having to dodge water bottles that had fallen out.

Good to catch up with you again Ben, couldn't stay for long my daughter had a date. Well done getting 8th

berm bandit

Blimey... soz, I didn't mean to start anything :oops:

I was actually genuinely interested to see what you (or anyone else for that matter ), thought might work better. Currently, we actually take the average result for gridding, so yes, one result in one race will get you right up there. We can't find a better way of doing it in a series, where you are only required to enter 75% of the races to get a series placing. That apart lets face it you are never going to get a gridding anywhere if you've not raced, or alternatively established a pedigree that can be taken into account. (If you have please forward your results to me and I'll sort you out a grid position.) This has always been the case and still is. In fact at Tunstall we gridded anyone who actually asked to be gridded, and I will always consider any genuine request at any race. <Official hint: Ask and ye shall receive>

Our main objective in gridding as far back in the field as we can is safety. We have experienced some horrible incidents with a rider being unseated near the front and then being hit by the oncoming cavalry charge, so we do take care to grid properly, and this is also why we insist on wheel behind wheel and all that mullarkey. After safety comes improving the flow into the course. If people are sorted into their relative abilities/speeds, the flow into the first obstacle tends to run smoother.

Yesterday was a big concern in this respect, as while to use the venue in that clockwise direction makes it a great ride because you get the good bits as downs as opposed to ups, it is much harder to start that way. We had originally intended to run down gravelly hill to start, but in the conditions we felt it would be too dangerous with ultra fast riding onto the mixture of surfaces. So instead we went straight to PB, and narrowed the course before getting there to limit congestion. I was getting feedback from the marshal to the start line so we could hold the starts to allow it to clear, and it seemed to run pretty smoothly, albeit with a bit of a hold up for the back of the open field, but not IMHO excessive.

Regarding this

One more, separate the start times by a few mins in each category

, ?I can see what you are saying, but the fastest am lap time was 16ish mins, and in the pm was 15ish mins, so we actually don't have that much time to get everyone away before the field comes round again, and there is also an issue about getting it strung out sufficiently so as to allow rapid passing when the tail end gets caught. Actually the main complaint we get is too much time between starts, as being lapped shortens your race.

Lastly re plumb buster and bottles, its a sad thing but panicky braking bumps where its entirely unnecessary to brake have left parts of it like a washboard, in fact so much so that far from bottles being a problem I swear I was picking up fillings when I cleared up yesterday..... all amalgam though..no gold you cheap skates

VWsurfbum

Cheers for the response G, Dont worry about me, big enough and uglyenough to look after myself.
anyway, anyone other than the very good Randomoldbloke got pictures?

berm bandit

No probs VDubyer. I really don't like anyone having a bad day, and we will always listen if there are good suggestions to be had. RE pics, soz the only ones I've seen are R.O.B.'s so far.

PS: Re rounds that would suit you: Nuclear Bunker, think Codham without the BMX ..... don't tell everyone though

paulbingham

WindyG wrote:

Only negative thing for me is coming down Plum Buster and having to dodge water bottles that had fallen out

Wasnt mine! Mine did fall out, but like an idiot i jumped off teh bike and went back to pick it up! That was on the first lap, and i couoldnt get started again until a clear point, which meant a dozen riders zoomed past me!

On a side note, i used Strava to record teh ride and got a PB on the PB section! Faster by 15secs than previous rides on it. :P

shalfordninja

I got gridded 6th for the open male, I then went and broke a rear spoke on the first right hander which promptly got caught in the rear brake, I had to stop and pull it out. By the time a got going I was pretty much last going into the first single track section. Que much overtaking and polite "on your left/right"

Apologies if I cut anyone up during the race, I got a bit of a panic on after undoing all my hard work in the last two rounds and went a bit mad trying to get back up through the field. Anyway I got back in the zone and rolled across the line in 25th. Looking at the size of the field and the type of course I cant be unhappy, I'm not very good on the fireroads of Thetford, I tend to make time in the single track, although I found some of the shaved leg brigade to hide behind on the fireroads

See you at the next one!

stylish

I think the gridding works well enough, and whatever system you use, it wont please everyone, i really dont think there is much to fault about MSG, its run with passion and an emphasis on fun by Matt and G, this can be seen by the increase in numbers over the last few years. My only gripe would be the late start of the PM race, i would love to see it come forward by an hour if im honest, but i also realise everyone there who is helping/volunteering needs a break during the day.

Bottles on the Plumb Buster was no better in the afternoon, I walked down for the morning race and met My dad there (randomoldbloke) and he had 3 beside him after the first pass! Credit to the Newdales rider who stopped on lap 2 and picked his up, in the afternoon race, 1 rider lost his, with his car key taped too it, luckily dad was still there to pick it up.

remember its all about having fun, and testing your own personnal limits, and meeting new friends and having a laugh.

berm bandit

i also realise everyone there who is helping/volunteering needs a break during the day.

....... I wish! :shock:

Nope its not that, we only just manage to fit it all into the time that we have as things stand. Generally Matt and I start at 6:30 am on race day. If I'm lucky I'll grab a coffee after the start of the morning race, but more often that not the first chance to refuel will be in the avo after the start of the afternoon race. At Theters it took 3 attempts to get through my Chilli, having been called out to incidents 3 times while I tried to eat it. Matt usually had his brekkie/lunch during the Under 12's race. The marshals were in for a break after the under 12's and just about got long enough to eat a sandwich before we were getting them out on the course again.

At the moment, we're wondering how we can move it forward in the time available.

Cheers

Graham

VWsurfbum

My opinion, for what its worth
2hr race starts at 10, Practice from 9
1 Hr race a 2,
saves you an hour?

berm bandit

I wish...... again :shock:

This is the range of maximum and minimum race times we have to accomodate in the day, so actually we have two two hour races with a 1/2 hour one inbetween, (by the way thats for the leader to cross the line, not the last person in), with all of them having a requirement for a specific practice time to be available for them, so thats 4 1/2 hours of racing with roughly 2 - 3 hours of practice and course change/fumble time, plus gridding, and podium time, which can easily suck up a further hour or so in the day. By my clock that means if we start at 10 we should finish roughly around about 4:30 - 5:00pm by the time the last podium is done...... Oh yeah, thats when we do finish isn't it??

Under-12 0:30
Juvenile Men 0:30 1:00
Juvenile Women 0:30 1:00
Youth Men 0:30 1:00
Youth Women 0:30 1:00
Junior Men 1:00 1:30 (1:15*)
Junior Women 1:00 1:30 (1.15*)
Senior Men U23 1:15 1:45 (1:30*)
Senior Women U23 1:15 1:45 (1:30*)
Senior Men Elite 1:30 2:00 (1:45*)
Senior Women Elite 1:30 2:00 (1:45*)
Masters Men 1:15 1:45 (1:30*)
Masters Women 1:15 1:45 (1:30*)
Veteran Men 1:15 1:45 (1:30*)
Veteran Women 1:15 1:45 (1:30*)

evo3ben

One thing that bugs me, people racing in a category that is too easy for them and just top 3 it every year with out moving on to the next category. There are racers in the open race that would be contending for a podium in the sport cat :roll: If they finished top 3 last year why dont they move up to sport?? Prob nothing that can be done about it but still a bit unfair and unsportsmanship like.

VWsurfbum

Although I agree I cant do the 14:00 starts its jut too late in the day so I'm guessing there will be others like me

IhateDNS

One thing that bugs me, people racing in a category that is too easy for them

YES

This makes my race\ride over to quick! I can only manage two laps as time I start about to start third the winner rollover over line with a stupidly fast time. Yes it's down to me to put more effort in, but it is meant to be Fun Open Cat!

berm bandit

....Oh dear, I feel like I keep contradicting you boys, so soz for that in advance :?

Actually, the race is based on a number of laps to fulfill a time criteria, so we calculate the number of laps based on those timings above. We are usually totally on the money, so in fact how many laps the leader does actually makes no difference to your race. Lets say for the purposes of discussion you were the quickest dude in the shire and therefore you were likely to be the winner we would simply modify the number of laps that would be done in that time and your race would be over in the same timescale. In fact the nearer the front of the field you are, the shorter your race is, the further back in the field, the longer time wise.

GringoJimi

Just wanted to express my thanks to the organisers for putting on a great race.
They did a clever trick with the weather too!

I'll go against the grain here and say that I prefer that the 2 hour race is held in the afternoon

berm bandit

Booking Error Gringo, we definitely ordered rain

stylish

G just wave and coffee will be delivered at any time, and if you're out on course and you see my dad taking pictures, he is always laden with food if you're hungry....

evo3ben

Only a few days away now! Not sure what to expect from the new course. Hoping the weather holds out. 94 pre entries in 'open' cat! Might top 100 on the day!

VWsurfbum

good luck chaps, I'm racing down in FoD for Enduro1, so while you'll be climbing up those grassy climbs i'll be flying down some super tech singletrack LOL

Have fun

grony

VWsurfbum wrote:

good luck chaps, I'm racing down in FoD for Enduro1, so while you'll be climbing up those grassy climbs i'll be flying down some super tech singletrack LOL

Have fun

Are you gridded?

VWsurfbum

Lol yes actually

CUBEical

was just wondering if you guys could shed some light im looking to enter an open cat race probably in thetford when the next one is one . and i was just wondering they are for an hour right race time how does this work? as i am wanting to train and i want to know what i have to get good at and how many miles to an hour i will have to cover to get any where near finishing first ? thanks

WindyG

CUBEical wrote:

was just wondering if you guys could shed some light im looking to enter an open cat race probably in thetford when the next one is one . and i was just wondering they are for an hour right race time how does this work? as i am wanting to train and i want to know what i have to get good at and how many miles to an hour i will have to cover to get any where near finishing first ? thanks

Best way is just turn up race and work out what you need to do to get better.

bigdawg

CUBEical wrote:

was just wondering if you guys could shed some light im looking to enter an open cat race probably in thetford when the next one is one . and i was just wondering they are for an hour right race time how does this work? as i am wanting to train and i want to know what i have to get good at and how many miles to an hour i will have to cover to get any where near finishing first ? thanks

Thetford is a bit different rom a lot of xc courses in that there are usually a lot of long pedally bits, with a few bomb holes. Road riding will actually be good practice, but obviously depends on what you do at the moment - if youre a cat 1 road rider just carry on doing what youre doing, if youre a weekend mtb rider then get out and ride.

Problem is you wont know what you need to do really until you've actually done a race, its not something you can replicate easily - best advice is really ride whenever you can, turn up race and have fun, and then look at what needs to be done to improve on your result.

ollie51

Finally got round to doing a blog post about round 3, linky: http://oeracing.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/ ... f-may.html

CUBEical

bigdawg wrote:

Thetford is a bit different rom a lot of xc courses in that there are usually a lot of long pedally bits, with a few bomb holes. Road riding will actually be good practice, but obviously depends on what you do at the moment - if youre a cat 1 road rider just carry on doing what youre doing, if youre a weekend mtb rider then get out and ride.
Problem is you wont know what you need to do really until you've actually done a race, its not something you can replicate easily - best advice is really ride whenever you can, turn up race and have fun, and then look at what needs to be done to improve on your result.

i try and get at least 30 mins power bombing a night (by that i mean really pushing it hard ), i have got mixed ride out here, i got roads then onto xc, lots of lumps and bumps, up massive hills ,down bumpy hills, threw woods ,on trails of trails.... i got a really good mix. Which i am very surprised of did not know it was all on my door step

I have been aiming for 1 hour rides at the moment only had the bike up and running for just over a week now maybe two.First MTB since well about 11 years. i did 14 miles in around 1 hour today, and that was a massive mixture of what I have stated, that's my first big ride since i have had it , i stopped every now and then as well. quite proud of myself. my OQ was just asking now if i entered a race and did that 14miles in around 1 hour would i be last like badly last what should i aim for i am very competitive and i want to do the best i can, if i race and do the best i can and loose i do not mind, i just want to know what to push myself to ? thanks

paulbingham

I'd say you'd just have to go for it and see. Can't say you'd be last as there's different people turn up at each event. So comming last at one, might mean someone who's slower than you just didnt turn up at that race.
I've done Thetford MSG teh other month and was towards the back. My own fault. I got off to pick up my dropped water bottle, then tried too hard to make up posistions and ran out of steam. I still wasnt last, just felt like it, but i was in the back 10.
Hasnt put me off going tomorrow. I'll be there trying to stay somewhere in the middle of the pack. Thing is i hate the open fire roads. I feel i race better on single track through the woods, up and down the pits.

You should be able to complete 2 laps in an hour if your doing 14miles in the same time, if your lucky, you might even be able to start your 3rd lap before the end of the race. All you can do is your best, and not worry about posistion in your first race, just getting round in one piece and have fun.

CUBEical

paulbingham wrote:

You should be able to complete 2 laps in an hour if your doing 14miles in the same time, if your lucky, you might even be able to start your 3rd lap before the end of the race. All you can do is your best, and not worry about posistion in your first race, just getting round in one piece and have fun.

how does the race work then ? 3 laps max? timed so if you do not make it around the second in 1 hour you just finish>? was in the woods today going threw single tracks in the woods and then on fire roads was awesome had my mrs behind me though so had to keep stopping and letting her catch up lol.

WindyG

Damn that was a tough race at Ickworth, pretty disappointed with my finishing position, got a great start but after gaining in the single track I just lost it all again on the grassy climbs. Loads of mechanical fails and and accidents with some pretty nasty over the bar crashes at the last bomb hole. First race I didn't really enjoy.

CUBEical

WindyG wrote:

First race I didn't really enjoy.

How many have you done ? If you do not mind me asking ?

Does any one know when the next race in Thetford is ?