The official TrainerRoad thread

Simmotino · February 2013

StuRichT wrote:

Hi guys

I'm considering trying out TR mainly as a way to gauge improevenmts in my fitness and to hopefully try and bring some structure to my current training.

I have two main questions.

Firstly I only have rollers, so is there anyone else with experience using rollers with TR? I know I'm never going to be able to do huge efforts on the rollers, and according to TR website they have the speed/power data for my rollers, but do you think this will be a major problem?

Secondly, does the software itself help you structure a training program? I want to train for crits, but I don't know where to start really. I 've entered a few and can stay with the bunch no problem, but I know to move up to 3rd cat I'm going to need to improve both my fitness and tactical ability.

Cheers.

Hi Stu,

Welcome to BR!

I don't see that using rollers would be a problem provided you are happy using them. Most workouts on Tr are 60 or 90 minutes so, as long as you are comfortable riding the rollers for that long, you should be fine.

There are several different plans on TR of varying intensities and geared toward different things and certainly more than one which would be suitable for crit training.

Garryboy · February 2013

StuRichT wrote:

Hi guys

I'm considering trying out TR mainly as a way to gauge improevenmts in my fitness and to hopefully try and bring some structure to my current training.

I have two main questions.

Firstly I only have rollers, so is there anyone else with experience using rollers with TR? I know I'm never going to be able to do huge efforts on the rollers, and according to TR website they have the speed/power data for my rollers, but do you think this will be a major problem?

Secondly, does the software itself help you structure a training program? I want to train for crits, but I don't know where to start really. I 've entered a few and can stay with the bunch no problem, but I know to move up to 3rd cat I'm going to need to improve both my fitness and tactical ability.

Cheers.

Hi Stu,
What rollers do you have? I use a set of cycleops aluminium rollers with magnetic resistance unit (setting 5) with trainer road - they are re-branded sportscrafters, which are on the supported trainer list.

They work fine, but it will depend if your rollers are listed. If not the power readings will be off, might not be an issue if you use heart rate/cadence to monitor effort.

I like using tr with them because I can easily see HR and cadence on my laptop screen, but I use my jet fluid pro for sessions that are part of a training plan.

StuRichT · February 2013

Thanks for the replies.

I have tacx rollers which are listed on the TR website as beta, so I guess thats fine. What concerns me is I can get my HR up to LTHR on the rollers, but it takes longer than say on a turbo or on the road. I'm assuming on TR you follow speed (virtual power) targets and not target hr zones? Or can you do both?

Cheers

Garryboy · February 2013

You can do heart rate, ive not tried it but its an option - virtual power or LTHR

Try it, you wont regret it for the cost!

amnesia · February 2013

Why didn't I start doing this sooner ?!

Finally got my act together to start the Intermediate Base I plan yesterday. Bearing in mind I haven't sat on my bike since November :oops: I at least completed the 8 minute test, although I (obviously) went out far too hard in the first interval and blew out of my arse after about 3 minutes :roll: ... I got it together for the second 8 minute session though.

Anyway... I didn't feel too bad today, so tonight I did the second session 'Gayley' using the suggested FTP (which was quite low :oops: ) and THOROUGHLY enjoyed it.

http://www.trainerroad.com/career/amnesia

I'm signed up for the Mallorca Max Hurzeler 167 in April, so need to get some miles in. I am sure the fitness will come back quickly, and hopefully my poor FTP will pick up in a few weeks after some hard sessions.

One question though - how do you record your progress on the weekend 'road ride' in TrainerRoad, or can't you ?

StuRichT · February 2013

Garryboy wrote:

You can do heart rate, ive not tried it but its an option - virtual power or LTHR

Try it, you wont regret it for the cost!

Ok cheers. Think I'll give it a shot, see how it goes.

handful · February 2013

amnesia wrote:

Why didn't I start doing this sooner ?!

Finally got my act together to start the Intermediate Base I plan yesterday. Bearing in mind I haven't sat on my bike since November :oops: I at least completed the 8 minute test, although I (obviously) went out far too hard in the first interval and blew out of my ars* after about 3 minutes :roll: ... I got it together for the second 8 minute session though.

Anyway... I didn't feel too bad today, so tonight I did the second session 'Gayley' using the suggested FTP (which was quite low :oops: ) and THOROUGHLY enjoyed it.

http://www.trainerroad.com/career/amnesia

I'm signed up for the Mallorca Max Hurzeler 167 in April, so need to get some miles in. I am sure the fitness will come back quickly, and hopefully my poor FTP will pick up in a few weeks after some hard sessions.

One question though - how do you record your progress on the weekend 'road ride' in TrainerRoad, or can't you ?

Hi amnesia. Sorry, can't answer your question but I just looked at your first sessions and they are spookily similar to mine! Great boost to the willpower though don't you think, I used to struggle to do 45 minutes on the turbo before the boredom got the better of me but did 90 minutes on the weekend doing Baxter. I'm finding it difficult at times sticking to the power targets feeling like I'm capable of more but also keen to stick to the right HR to increase base fitness.

http://www.trainerroad.com/career/chricycle147

Mike39496 · February 2013

Hi all,

First time having a crack at this, did the 20 minute power test and felt my heart beat in my throat also for the first time! Managed to pull off 217 FTP which i'm a bit disappointed at, but at 70kg i'm not too disappointed! Hopefully I can get a few more rides in this week and drag my fitness back to what it was last summer.

And just so I have no excuses my profile below so everyone can see when i'm lazy

http://www.trainerroad.com/career/Mike39496

Mike

jgsi · February 2013

Mike39496 wrote:

Hi all,

First time having a crack at this, did the 20 minute power test and felt my heart beat in my throat also for the first time! Managed to pull off 217 FTP which i'm a bit disappointed at, but at 70kg i'm not too disappointed! Hopefully I can get a few more rides in this week and drag my fitness back to what it was last summer.

And just so I have no excuses my profile below so everyone can see when i'm lazy

http://www.trainerroad.com/career/Mike39496

Mike

I wouldnt beat yourself up about FTP figures based around VP anyways.
There are plenty in the '200 ish ' club!

There are there to create a good baseline so that the workouts actually bear some fruit.. push you in the way they have been designed for.. under overs for example become a complete pita

amnesia · February 2013

handful wrote:

amnesia wrote:

Why didn't I start doing this sooner ?!

Hi amnesia. Sorry, can't answer your question but I just looked at your first sessions and they are spookily similar to mine! Great boost to the willpower though don't you think, I used to struggle to do 45 minutes on the turbo before the boredom got the better of me but did 90 minutes on the weekend doing Baxter. I'm finding it difficult at times sticking to the power targets feeling like I'm capable of more but also keen to stick to the right HR to increase base fitness.

http://www.trainerroad.com/career/chricycle147

Hi handful...

Yep - looks VERY similar to mine ! In fact everything apart from our weight :oops: (working on that one !)

I am planning on doing 'Baxter' on Thursday evening (on the rollers)... a good film on the laptop helps with the boredom, I find.

Keep it up !!

Daniel.

EDIT - just found out that you can download the workouts and upload them to Strava - happy days

ChrisSA · February 2013

Gray yesterday - first 2 x 20mins. Ouch.
Each rep was broken in to mins aero, 5 mins up.

Did a tempo run at lunch so felt this one.

ianeire · February 2013

JGSI wrote:

Mike39496 wrote:

Hi all,

First time having a crack at this, did the 20 minute power test and felt my heart beat in my throat also for the first time! Managed to pull off 217 FTP which i'm a bit disappointed at, but at 70kg i'm not too disappointed! Hopefully I can get a few more rides in this week and drag my fitness back to what it was last summer.

And just so I have no excuses my profile below so everyone can see when i'm lazy

http://www.trainerroad.com/career/Mike39496

Mike

I wouldnt beat yourself up about FTP figures based around VP anyways.
There are plenty in the '200 ish ' club!

There are there to create a good baseline so that the workouts actually bear some fruit.. push you in the way they have been designed for.. under overs for example become a complete pita

I would definitely echo that. Just use the base figure you have as nothing more than a figure from which you can gauge progress. The actual score is completely irrelevant with VP. I use Tacx Antares rollers and get completely different results depending on which bike I use. Using my hack gives an FTP around 240, the race bike 300. Massive difference. Which is correct, who really cares. It's simply about measuring your progress.

Lightning · February 2013

Hey guys,

I used to use a Tacx Flow for all my turbo training and always used its power reading to train (it's inaccurate but consistent the way I had it setup). However, the turbo is now broken and I had to get a new one. I got a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine this time, but naturally, it doesn't come with power reading. Because of this, I was thinking of subscribing to TrainerRoad for its virtual power, since it seems fairly consistent with this turbo. I do have a couple of questions though, as you need an account to reach most of the website pages (which I still don't have, obviously).

Is it possible to create workouts? I see there's tons of predefined workouts and plans, but I'm not interested in that as I have my own plan and my workouts. Speaking of which, I've noticed there's two different FTP tests, but I'm used to testing FTP in a different way since it's the closest for me to the actual FTP. Can I create my own test and setup everything manually?

Something else I'm confused about is the actual workout time. Imagine you start doing a 1 hour workout, but end up riding 1h30m. Does it not register those 30 minutes? This isn't that common, but some days I do have to adjust my workout depending on how my legs feel during the actual workout, so a 3h workout might turn into 2h30m or 3h30.. Also, is it possible to just push "start" and ride for as long as you want? Or do you need to follow something all the time?

Any help appreciated.

fukawitribe · February 2013

Hi,

Just a brief reply while i'm about - sure others will answer muc better...

Lightning wrote:

Is it possible to create workouts? I see there's tons of predefined workouts and plans, but I'm not interested in that as I have my own plan and my workouts.

Yes - there is a Workout Creator which seems quite usable. You can create from scratch or base one workout on another. Not done anything complicated from scratch with it yet, but seems OK.

Speaking of which, I've noticed there's two different FTP tests, but I'm used to testing FTP in a different way since it's the closest for me to the actual FTP. Can I create my own test and setup everything manually?

Yep - you can set your FTP/LTHR manually, do your own tests or whatever you like.

Something else I'm confused about is the actual workout time. Imagine you start doing a 1 hour workout, but end up riding 1h30m. Does it not register those 30 minutes? This isn't that common, but some days I do have to adjust my workout depending on how my legs feel during the actual workout, so a 3h workout might turn into 2h30m or 3h30.. Also, is it possible to just push "start" and ride for as long as you want? Or do you need to follow something all the time?

Any help appreciated.

Any workout that is started - usually by begin to peddle - is saved, either by finishing the workout or when the workout window is closed. That said, it won't record beyond the end of a workout - so you can't continue a 2 hour workout beyond 2 hours, but you can start another straight after. So, in your case, if you wanted to do a 3h30 workout with power targets, you'd need to make one that long (or longer) - the software will not be able to invent power targets for you afterall.

There are a number of free-rides - without power targets - and these can be used for free-form workouts. They are trivial to make as long as you like, e.g. 24h, and you can just keep going until you want to stop and everything will be recorded. However if you want a structured workout then obviously you need to structure in place first.

Hope that helps a wee bit - sorry it's short.
Cheers

Percy Vera · February 2013

fukawitribe wrote:

Hi,

Just a brief reply while i'm about - sure others will answer muc better...

Lightning wrote:

Is it possible to create workouts? I see there's tons of predefined workouts and plans, but I'm not interested in that as I have my own plan and my workouts.

Yes - there is a Workout Creator which seems quite usable. You can create from scratch or base one workout on another. Not done anything complicated from scratch with it yet, but seems OK.

Where's the workout creator? I thought you just picked the 'Freeride' for whatever duration you need.

Lightning · February 2013

Thank you very much fukawitribe, that answered everything I needed to know

fukawitribe · February 2013

Percy Vera wrote:

fukawitribe wrote:

Hi,

Just a brief reply while i'm about - sure others will answer muc better...

Lightning wrote:

Is it possible to create workouts? I see there's tons of predefined workouts and plans, but I'm not interested in that as I have my own plan and my workouts.

Yes - there is a Workout Creator which seems quite usable. You can create from scratch or base one workout on another. Not done anything complicated from scratch with it yet, but seems OK.

Where's the workout creator? I thought you just picked the 'Freeride' for whatever duration you need.

You can use free-ride - but the Workout Creator is available via the beta versions of TR, perhaps via some other method but i've not looked. It's essentially stand-alone once installed, so you can use the beta version of TR to get it and then revert to the stable release version of TR if you wish. To get the beta go to

http://www.trainerroad.com/install

and scroll / search down to the beta download. Install, run-up TR and click on WORKOUTS. You should have four buttons below the search box, 'TrainerRoad', 'Video', 'Favourites' and 'Custom'. Choose 'Custom. you should now have a button below that marked 'Create Custom Workout' - IIRC that should prompt you to install it the first time, once installed pressing it will launch the Workout Creator application.

fukawitribe · February 2013

Lightning wrote:

Thank you very much fukawitribe, that answered everything I needed to know

You're most welcome - forgot to mention previously but TR already have some internal builds which will also broadcast the power reading back out over ANT+, e.g. to a head or control unit... not sure if this is also useful for you but thought it's worth mentioning.

mikenetic · February 2013

I had almost two-weeks off from TR, although I was doing some riding in the meantime. I came back to the second ride in week 5 of the Intermediate Base 1 plan; Tallac. I made it through, but it was pretty tough!

Got to say, I'm massively impressed with TR, it's really keeping me motivated.

I'm due another FTP test soon. It'll be interesting to see if there's been any change, as this plan is about base endurance really.

markp80 · February 2013

Well, I did an 8-min test tonight, after a few days rest, and my FTP has gone up from 197w to 211w. Delighted with this as 200 has been my target since I started back in September when I was 167.
My FTP/kg has increased to 2.25 as well, through a combination of increased FTP and reduced weiht. 2.0 was my initial target, but since I started I've now lost a stone as well. Something to be said for this cycling lark (and TrainerRoad in particular for me personally)!
Maybe the Tour of Sufferlandria did me some good last week!

Cheers,
MarkP

Mike39496 · February 2013

Gayley tonight, that 3rd interval was an absolute killer but managed to get through it all, following the Intermediate Base 1 plan so a slightly easier ride on Saturday! (Not sure I like the thought of 90 mins on the turbo though

)

mikenetic · February 2013

Mike39496 wrote:

Gayley tonight, that 3rd interval was an absolute killer but managed to get through it all, following the Intermediate Base 1 plan so a slightly easier ride on Saturday! (Not sure I like the thought of 90 mins on the turbo though )

I suspect Gayley is pretty much designed as a check on your FTP result.

I was hanging on at the end of it, but if you can make it through that then based on my own experience you've probably got the baseline FTP set about right.

jotko · February 2013

Did 20 min test earlier and FTP has gone up loads, I think largely due to getting my pacing right in the assessment interval and having a big fan to keep heart rate down. The computer monitor I use has a timeout on it and 3 minutes before the end of the main interval it decided that it would turn itself off so I was flying blind - I just went for it, I was utterly shattered when it finished, absolutely nothing left.

On the one hand I am pleased I have got better, but on the other I am shitting myself - looking at some of the Sufferfest workouts with the revised FTP I am reasonably sure I will fail miserably!

Going to have to pick and choose a few low IF workouts to get my eye in I think....

amnesia · February 2013

MarkP80 wrote:

Well, I did an 8-min test tonight, after a few days rest, and my FTP has gone up from 197w to 211w. Delighted with this as 200 has been my target since I started back in September when I was 167.
My FTP/kg has increased to 2.25 as well, through a combination of increased FTP and reduced weiht. 2.0 was my initial target, but since I started I've now lost a stone as well. Something to be said for this cycling lark (and TrainerRoad in particular for me personally)!
Maybe the Tour of Sufferlandria did me some good last week!

Cheers,
MarkP

Good effort !! Looking forwards to similar results myself soon... I find TR very motivating

Lightning · February 2013

I had an easy day scheduled today so I went on the turbo to test it and to test TR as well. I'll leave my impression here about its consistency and accuracy since it might help someone. Keep in mind it was my first time on the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and using TR.

Starting with the turbo, it's pretty good. It's quieter than my previous one (Tacx Flow) and it has a better road feel, but it's obviously still a turbo. I must say the build quality seems really solid though.

As for TR, it has tons of workouts and plans and whatnot, so it seems like a good way for someone with limited time to train and who's stuck on the turbo or has motivation problems to stay motivated and evolve. I won't really comment beyond that as I train a lot (mostly on the road), so most of the workouts are very short compared to my usual ones and I won't be doing them (unless someone challenges me to do some specific one).

Now for the actual integration.. I used a Continental Hometrainer tyre, 120psi and 3 full turns on the knob after it touched the tyre and compared the virtual power results to actual power throughout the workout. I selected the workout "Free Ride 180" and started by warming up the turbo with 2 hours at 200w. The reading was very consistent and it was actually pretty accurate to the actual power, which is good. After those 2 hours, when the room was pretty warmed up already, I varied the intensity for about 15 minutes, up to ~280w to see how it responded, and the power readings were still consistent and accurate. After that I fell back to the 200w and it was consistent until the end. After my 3 hours were up, it closed and saved automatically (the rest of the time wasn't registered).

My conclusions: The integration of this turbo with TR (under this setup) seems to be consistent and actually accurate, which is very useful for me as it saves me from having to test my FTP twice. I'll check again next time under the same conditions to see if it remains consistent, and also test higher wattages on a proper intervals session to see if they remain accurate. The one thing I'd like would be a dynamic free ride that ends when you tell it to, instead of having to pick those predefined free rides that don't really cover a good amount of time ranges (the jump from 180 minutes to 240 is very high in my opinion). I don't really care about what's saved and what isn't, as I use the Garmin to record everything, but it would still be nice.

Apologies for the long post.

Garryboy · February 2013

Having an easy week this week - not entirely by choice, feeling a little under the weather - managed to knock out a decent effort on 'There is no try' - first time I've tried a 'fest video at 100% - certainly felt it!

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/201872

Off to Spain (Benidorm) tomorrow, so trying to stave off a cold withthe prospect of a week of riding outdoors to look forward to. Although I think I might miss TR in a perverse sort of way!

fukawitribe · February 2013

Lightning wrote:

As for TR, it has tons of workouts and plans and whatnot, so it seems like a good way for someone with limited time to train and who's stuck on the turbo or has motivation problems to stay motivated and evolve. I won't really comment beyond that as I train a lot (mostly on the road), so most of the workouts are very short compared to my usual ones and I won't be doing them (unless someone challenges me to do some specific one).

Sounds like you know what you're doing, so i'm tempted to say nowt - but I wonder whether some of the very high intensity ones actually need to be very long... I thought that was part of the "new" (not really that new..) way of thinking, that logging miles is all fine and dandy but shorter, very high intensity workouts have their own benefits (for endurance as well as peak power etc). You can clearly do that on the road, but it shouldn't preclude you from doing it on the trainer. I know bugger all about this to be honest, but I get the impression from others that seem know their stuff that a lot of the workouts are sufficiently long for their intended benefit (or you can always make your own obviously). Like I say, you sound like you know what you want, so sorry if that's sounds a little like Grannys' egg sucking lessons

Now for the actual integration.. I used a Continental Hometrainer tyre, 120psi and 3 full turns on the knob after it touched the tyre and compared the virtual power results to actual power throughout the workout. I selected the workout "Free Ride 180" and started by warming up the turbo with 2 hours at 200w. The reading was very consistent and it was actually pretty accurate to the actual power, which is good. After those 2 hours, when the room was pretty warmed up already, I varied the intensity for about 15 minutes, up to ~280w to see how it responded, and the power readings were still consistent and accurate. After that I fell back to the 200w and it was consistent until the end. After my 3 hours were up, it closed and saved automatically (the rest of the time wasn't registered).

Good to know - it's what i'm running on but i've not had any chance to compare to real power reading.. not that that really matters for what i'm using TR for anyway - just as long as it's consistent.

My conclusions: The integration of this turbo with TR (under this setup) seems to be consistent and actually accurate, which is very useful for me as it saves me from having to test my FTP twice. I'll check again next time under the same conditions to see if it remains consistent, and also test higher wattages on a proper intervals session to see if they remain accurate. The one thing I'd like would be a dynamic free ride that ends when you tell it to, instead of having to pick those predefined free rides that don't really cover a good amount of time ranges (the jump from 180 minutes to 240 is very high in my opinion).

Open-ended free ride might be good, you could always suggest it to TR - they seem very amenable to suggestions. The other alternative is just to select (or make) a really long ride - it doesn't matter when you finish in it, it'll be saved from the start to when you decide you want to stop anyway.

I don't really care about what's saved and what isn't, as I use the Garmin to record everything, but it would still be nice.

You might want to keep an eye out for the future beta releases of TR then - as and when they release the version with ANT+ Power profile broadcast you can set the Garmin up to record that as a sensor and have the whole session with power included in one place.

Apologies for the long post.

Very interesting, thanks for taking the time
Cheers
Tim

Lightning · February 2013

fukawitribe wrote:

Sounds like you know what you're doing, so i'm tempted to say nowt - but I wonder whether some of the very high intensity ones actually need to be very long... I thought that was part of the "new" (not really that new..) way of thinking, that logging miles is all fine and dandy but shorter, very high intensity workouts have their own benefits (for endurance as well as peak power etc). You can clearly do that on the road, but it shouldn't preclude you from doing it on the trainer. I know bugger all about this to be honest, but I get the impression from others that seem know their stuff that a lot of the workouts are sufficiently long for their intended benefit (or you can always make your own obviously). Like I say, you sound like you know what you want, so sorry if that's sounds a little like Grannys' egg sucking lessons

Yes I understand, and those sessions do work really well. I just have to do longer sessions because my weekly volume is quite high during this time of the year, so I need to balance stress and recovery. It's still a bit early for me to start doing too many intense sessions, but I do decrease volume and increase intensity as I get closer to the racing season. I'm just getting done with my winter transition into the new season at the moment. I agree it's probably a bit old fashioned, but as long as it works I don't complain

.

fukawitribe wrote:

You might want to keep an eye out for the future beta releases of TR then - as and when they release the version with ANT+ Power profile broadcast you can set the Garmin up to record that as a sensor and have the whole session with power included in one place.

Oh, that's actually very nice, thanks. I'll definitely keep an eye out for that.

mikenetic · February 2013

Great write up Lightning.

Good to see that you're getting comparable virtual and real power readings, I use the same tyre, pressure and a Kurt Rock and Roll, which I think has the same resistance unit as your turbo.

Can I ask how you're establishing your real power? Are you using a power tap hub, or a crank based system?

Lightning · February 2013

Yes, I think the resistance is the same too (forgot to mention and don't even know if it matters, but mine has the standard 6lb flywheel). Measured with PowerTap.

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