The official TrainerRoad thread

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  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    JGSI wrote:
    One for Nate!
    Just done your 'sweetspot' Tallac ride.
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/89802
    By the 3rd interval I wasnt actually paying any attention to your excellent on screen instructions.. probably needed more shouty encouragement as it ended up being a tough one.
    - How ou maintain a power output like that for 15 mins amazes me. Nice ride.

    MarkP
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • mistertommyt
    mistertommyt Posts: 56
    One of the features of TR I was keen to try out was the integration of Sufferfest videos, so I gave it a go last night and was really impressed.

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/89569

    So much better than using the perceived effort scale. The more I use TR the more I like it.
    www.trainerroad.com/career/ttm
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    Hell hath no fury is a good one. Although my HRM has been acting weird lately :S
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    MarkP80 wrote:
    JGSI wrote:
    One for Nate!
    Just done your 'sweetspot' Tallac ride.
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/89802
    By the 3rd interval I wasnt actually paying any attention to your excellent on screen instructions.. probably needed more shouty encouragement as it ended up being a tough one.
    - How ou maintain a power output like that for 15 mins amazes me. Nice ride.

    MarkP

    Cheers for that, but remember thats my power - only meaningful for me... you train at same % of FTP you are getting the same benefits.
    Whether its corrrect or not ( I trust the TR team to create solid power curves for the various trainers), I do know that I was getting stronger in the last few races this season.

    As an aside I am slowly making sense of the 'Training with Power' book.
    I dont know if this is a compliment or not, but according to the power profiling , I am an 'upsloper' , engine equivalent to a 1980's Foden truck sadly not to 2012 Scania..
  • dw300
    dw300 Posts: 1,642
    MarkP80 wrote:
    MarkP80 wrote:
    Well I'm certainly in!
    As I said previously I would like to get to an FTP of 2W/kg, but I also see an FTP of 200w as achievable for me. I'll have a think about what I see as an achievable timescale for me.
    - OK, having given this some thought, accounting for time away etc I reckon I've got 9 training weeks between now and finishing work for Christmas (which calls a halt to my turbo work as well, unfortunately). So my target day for a retest is 20th December, and at that point I'd like to raise my FTP by 5%, from 183 to 190, and lose 1.5lb a week. So on that date, my target FTP/kg is - 2.08 (currently 1.84)

    It was a good idea this DW, nice call!
    Good luck everyone.

    MarkP

    First up .. don't worry about a week off at Christmas, a rest week can be great for recovery and motivation. I'm planning a week off in November. Just work really hard coming up to it. Increase your volume and intensity and see what you're capable of .. do some work that will take you a full week to recover from! Also, when you come back to training after just a week off you can usually beast the next workout you try. Great time to retest.

    Second .. now that people are stating goals in a public forum they are accountable for achieving them. If you don't then prepare for a rollicking or some public mockery! ;)

    JGSI wrote:
    MarkP80 wrote:
    - How ou maintain a power output like that for 15 mins amazes me. Nice ride.

    MarkP

    Cheers .. it must be my 'Old Man Strength'.

    Fixed! ;)
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • mcjimbob
    mcjimbob Posts: 24
    dw300 wrote:
    Would there be any point in publicly stating some goals on here. I feel it would help me, I guess it's just about choosing one that's realistic.

    We have about 10 weeks till 2013, I'm thinking that I can maybe get from 233W to 250W FTP by then. That's a 6.8% increase .. sounds like it might be possible, although I know I'm pretty close to my limit at the moment. Next season seems a long way off now, but when you look at it like that, even if I could add another 5% increase from New Year till the start of next season, that'll only get me from 233 into the low 260s over the entire winter, so I'm think getting started ASAP is good!

    A test in mid-to-late November will tell me what the progress is like, and then another at the end of the year to try and hit the first target .. anyone in?

    17.10.12 - 233W
    21.11.12 - 242W
    01.01.13 - 250W
    15.02.13 - 256W
    01.04.13 - 262W (If I can do this and be 65kg when I do, then I break the 4W/kg barrier too)

    If you know what FTP you want you can work out a figure 105-106% of that. Then set the workout percentage of the test so that the target line sits at that power level during the test interval(s), and then just try to hang in there!

    Good shout! I am in - with similar power targets as you (though, sadly. not similar W/kg - if only I wasn't carrying that extra 20kg+!!!). Would like to get to 250W by 2013, and lose 5kg. I'm currently sitting at 237 or thereabouts so I'm looking for just over 5.5% improvement in the 10 weeks.

    My training plan is just to follow the Intermediate Base I plan but might throw in the odd Sufferfest workout in place of the scheduled one. If I miss a workout, I'll try to make up the planned TSS by the end of the week.

    Ow no, now there's no slacking! :shock:
  • dubcat
    dubcat Posts: 754
    I increased my FTP to 175 and my second ride was much more of a workout than when at 165. Not sure if i should try even higher. What do you think? Seemed about right but I don't really know at all. Here is my ride:

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/89947
    2010 Specialized Rockhopper
    2012 Bianchi Infinito
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Dubcat wrote:
    I increased my FTP to 175 and my second ride was much more of a workout than when at 165. Not sure if i should try even higher. What do you think? Seemed about right but I don't really know at all. Here is my ride:

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/89947

    That s 4 8min threshold intervals.. so it should be 'hard' and not too pleasant an experience.
    Your pacing was off in the first interval?
    By the 4th, it looks like you could have done 1 or even 2 more ?
    Best left to your own judgement.
    We cant manipulate the graphs in TR as yet, so analysis is broad strokes.
  • dw300
    dw300 Posts: 1,642
    Dubcat wrote:
    I increased my FTP to 175 and my second ride was much more of a workout than when at 165. Not sure if i should try even higher. What do you think? Seemed about right but I don't really know at all. Here is my ride:

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/89947

    Leave it for now .. but ride a few different rides other than 1hr 0.9IF ones. That'll give you more of a feel for the spectrum of intensities, and you'll have a better idea what ride you think you could do on any particular day depending on what your body is telling you. Try a half hour one at over 1.0IF, or a 1.5hr at 0.7IF. It'll keep it interesting for you as well.

    I'll be honest .. although I like looking at data, and having access to what TR gives .. I basically just ride as much as I can, and base the intensity on how my legs feel. If they're heavy i'll go longer, lower intensity .. if i'm fresh i'll go shorter, high intensity. I figure I have X amount of TSS to use everyday, and just achieve it in whatever way I feel up to. Obviously RL gets in the way and somedays I don't train, or I haven't eaten or slept well and can't be assed getting on the bike at all, but that's fine as long as you attack it next day you pedal.
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • dubcat
    dubcat Posts: 754
    So at the end of this I should have been pretty wasted? I wasn't. I might increase FTP another 5 if so.

    I could have done at least one more interval I think. Should I be at a point where that is not possible?

    I really like the structure of the plans and would like to stick to intermediate base I. I'm a newbie and free styling is not for me.
    2010 Specialized Rockhopper
    2012 Bianchi Infinito
  • dw300
    dw300 Posts: 1,642
    Dubcat wrote:
    So at the end of this I should have been pretty wasted? I wasn't. I might increase FTP another 5 if so.

    I could have done at least one more interval I think. Should I be at a point where that is not possible?

    I really like the structure of the plans and would like to stick to intermediate base I. I'm a newbie and free styling is not for me.

    For that workout you should probably finish it with 'just about 1 more interval' left in you. Only the FTP test will tell you what you're capable of really, judge it off that and not the other workouts. I'd do another session or 2 and throw in an FTP test again if you think you can gain 10W or more, otherwise there's probably no point. That's why I mentioned about getting a feel for the different intensities, as that'll give you a better idea where you're at.
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • manxshred
    manxshred Posts: 295
    It is difficult to get a feel for where you should be. This is my latest ride: http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/90020

    I am pretty finished after that!
    But I did push on tonight, much harder than when I did the test. It will take time to figure out how to interpret your body and understand how hard you can push and pace yourself.
  • dw300
    dw300 Posts: 1,642
    ManxShred wrote:
    It is difficult to get a feel for where you should be. This is my latest ride: http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/90020

    I am pretty finished after that!
    But I did push on tonight, much harder than when I did the test. It will take time to figure out how to interpret your body and understand how hard you can push and pace yourself.

    That's a good workout there. What do you think of the Rock N Roll? Do you do much out of the saddle work on it. I'd like one where I can get out of the saddle easier, as I get sore supporting my weight when pushing a light gear.
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • manxshred
    manxshred Posts: 295
    I do like it as a trainer, but I am not sure it is worth the extra over the road machine.
    I am a low cadence rider so when working on higher cadences I do end up bouncing a lot, and the R&R makes it worse.
    Out of the saddle is better, but I haven't done much yet. I probably will include some intervals out of the saddle this winter as it is good to train that.
  • dw300
    dw300 Posts: 1,642
    I was considering doing an FTP test again today. It's been 17 days since my last one, and I've done 7 training sessions since.

    I was thinking about FTP when starting to use TR (within the first couple of months) and I thought that until you actually do an FTP test and fail to raise your FTP, then you haven't really given all you're capable of, and could be training below the level you are supposed to be? ie. It's not showing your true 'fitness', it's more the lack of 'skill' of doing the test that's limiting you.

    If I were to do one now it would be my 4th FTP test since starting to use TR at the start of August ..

    TR Workout - 1, Total Workouts - 1, Date - 03 Aug, FTP - 173
    TR Workout - 5, Total Workouts - 12, Date - 17 Aug, FTP - 212
    TR Workout - 18, Total Workouts - 39, Date - 02 Oct, FTP - 233
    TR Workout - 23, Total Workouts - 47, Date - 19 Oct, FTP - 235-240??

    I think I've answered my own question about whether it's too soon or not after working out those figures^. I think sticking to my mid-Nov, and New Year tests will be fine, especially since the overall mileage and hours will be down on the summer figures.

    Being slight-of-build, I'm going to stick with my technique of getting used to bigger gears, hopefully building my legs up a bit, then following that up with pushing higher cadences in those bigger gears.

    Of the workouts I've tried I'm particularly liking the following (in decreasing order of intensity) and will probably use mainly those throughout the winter ..

    Revolver - 15 x 1min all out sprints (135%+ FTP). 50mins total. Pretty brutal. Sometimes I'll just do 10 if I want to train next day too.
    Eichorn - 2 x 20mins at 90% FTP. 1hr total.
    Mono - 4 x 6mins at 95-105%. 1.5hrs total.
    Peavine - 3 x (3 x 3mins at 80, 85 and 90% FTP). 1hr total.
    Black - 1 x 50mins at 65-75% FTP. 1hr total.

    I'll stop thinking out loud now .. I'm off to play with the Workout Creator!
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    dw300 wrote:
    JGSI wrote:
    MarkP80 wrote:
    - How ou maintain a power output like that for 15 mins amazes me. Nice ride.

    MarkP

    Cheers .. it must be my 'Old Man Strength'.

    Fixed! ;)
    Brilliant!
    I was thinking about FTP when starting to use TR (within the first couple of months) and I thought that until you actually do an FTP test and fail to raise your FTP, then you haven't really given all you're capable of, and could be training below the level you are supposed to be? ie. It's not showing your true 'fitness', it's more the lack of 'skill' of doing the test that's limiting you.

    If I were to do one now it would be my 4th FTP test since starting to use TR at the start of August ..

    TR Workout - 1, Total Workouts - 1, Date - 03 Aug, FTP - 173
    TR Workout - 5, Total Workouts - 12, Date - 17 Aug, FTP - 212
    TR Workout - 18, Total Workouts - 39, Date - 02 Oct, FTP - 233
    TR Workout - 23, Total Workouts - 47, Date - 19 Oct, FTP - 235-240??
    Interestingly, I found that although on the second test I did, my FTP didn't go up a great deal, my technique had improved a lot - I was much more aware of the level I could hold for the full 8 minutes. So from being up and down like a yo-yo (mainly down) on test 1, on test 2 I was able to hold it much steadier. So, I think there's something to your "lack of skill" thought.
    You got a big jump in FTP over the first two weeks, but a much smaller one after the next 6 weeks - so maybe that suggests you've got the technique sorted now, and any gains are now genuine gains. I still think you're right to hold off until mid-Nov for the next test though (6 weeks-ish again). Any sooner, I think, would add too much variance in, such as how tired are you on the day, how rested etc.
    If you do a test after 6 weeks and your FTP doesn't go up, does that suggest you haven't been training correctly? Shouldn't it always go up? - Certainly while the FTP is down at "amateur" levels in any case.

    Cheers,
    MarkP
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    dw300 wrote:
    Of the workouts I've tried I'm particularly liking the following
    - You "like" some of the workouts? :shock:
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • London424
    London424 Posts: 4
    Hi everyone,

    I've just joined both BR and TR and looking to see improvements over the winter.

    A quick question, if my turbo isn't listed what is the best option? I've sent an email asking for it to be added, but in the meantime should I select a different model by the same manufacturer?

    I have a Elite SuperCrono Inertial ElastoGel Turbo and they have an Elite Fluid Alu AKA Chrono Fluid ElastoGel would this be the best proxy until my specific unit is added?

    I understand that it is likely to have a different power curve etc, but if I'm only concerned with measuring improvement against myself would this work?

    Thanks all!
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    London424 wrote:
    Hi everyone,

    I've just joined both BR and TR and looking to see improvements over the winter.

    A quick question, if my turbo isn't listed what is the best option? I've sent an email asking for it to be added, but in the meantime should I select a different model by the same manufacturer?

    I have a Elite SuperCrono Inertial ElastoGel Turbo and they have an Elite Fluid Alu AKA Chrono Fluid ElastoGel would this be the best proxy until my specific unit is added?

    I understand that it is likely to have a different power curve etc, but if I'm only concerned with measuring improvement against myself would this work?

    Thanks all!
    Just use the closest available. Virtual Power isn't 100% accurate anyway so as long as you don't take the figures for absolute gospel then there's no issue.

    Welcome to BR and TR :)
  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    London424 wrote:
    Hi everyone,

    I've just joined both BR and TR and looking to see improvements over the winter.

    A quick question, if my turbo isn't listed what is the best option? I've sent an email asking for it to be added, but in the meantime should I select a different model by the same manufacturer?

    I have a Elite SuperCrono Inertial ElastoGel Turbo and they have an Elite Fluid Alu AKA Chrono Fluid ElastoGel would this be the best proxy until my specific unit is added?

    I understand that it is likely to have a different power curve etc, but if I'm only concerned with measuring improvement against myself would this work?

    Thanks all!
    Hi, welcome to the forum!
    I don't know the answer to your question, but your last comment makes sense. Having said that, I usually find Nate at TR answers questions like this really promptly. I wouldn't be surprised if you see a response from him today.

    Cheers,
    MarkP
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    ps: Beta Workout creator has been released. http://www.trainerroad.com/install
  • dw300
    dw300 Posts: 1,642
    MarkP80 wrote:
    You got a big jump in FTP over the first two weeks, but a much smaller one after the next 6 weeks - so maybe that suggests you've got the technique sorted now, and any gains are now genuine gains. I still think you're right to hold off until mid-Nov for the next test though (6 weeks-ish again). Any sooner, I think, would add too much variance in, such as how tired are you on the day, how rested etc.
    If you do a test after 6 weeks and your FTP doesn't go up, does that suggest you haven't been training correctly? Shouldn't it always go up? - Certainly while the FTP is down at "amateur" levels in any case.

    Cheers,
    MarkP

    I've thought about this a lot, and mentioned most of it before, but to add to the summary of my FTP tests ..

    TR Workout - 1, Total Workouts - 1, Date - 03 Aug, FTP - 173

    Sore left knee and backside meant that I was pretty uncomfortable on this test. I believed that having done a 10k TT on the road, which took about 20mins that my FTP was in the 170W region based off Strava calculate figures. Since it was a fairly flat route, and a loop to account for wind, I figured that it'd be reasonably accurate. Basically I expected to hit about 170W, and I did.

    TR Workout - 5, Total Workouts - 12, Date - 17 Aug, FTP - 212, Percentage increase - 22.5%

    I tweaked my position. Seat tilted forward a little and height adjustment, along with a cleat adjustment (guess!), let me complete this test in a lot more comfort than the first. I hit 212 FTP although I went out a bit fast, so the pacing wasn't very even.

    TR Workout - 18, Total Workouts - 39, Date - 02 Oct, FTP - 233, Percentage increase - 10%

    Another slight position tweak. Perched on the pointy end of the saddle, more of a TT position. That definitely generated more power. As well as that I believed I could produce far more power and pace better, based off the jump between the first 2 tests, and the fact that what I thought I was capable of, and what I was actually capable of were quite different. I definitely didn't have the mindset right for the 2nd test. Pacing was far better in the third.

    TR Workout - 23, Total Workouts - 47, Date - 19 Oct, FTP - 235-240??, Percentage increase (240W) - 3%

    I know my FTP is set pretty close to what I can do now, although I know I'm determined enough to beat test 3, just unsure by how much. I'd estimate somewhere between 2% and 5% at most.

    In the first 3 tests I rode well above the target line, but the next time I do it it'll probably be a matter of following the target line. Since you ride the 20min interval at 107% FTP, and then it recalculates FTP based off 95% of your achieved figure, if you ride it perfectly on target your FTP will go up by about 1.65%, that 2-6W for most people. Now the way I look at it, even if you are no fitter, but ride every test as best you can, you'll get very close to your FTP within 4-6 tests.

    So basically, I was considering it because I'd like to be in the situation where I'm riding the FTP tests looking for that 2% increase, using the actual line as the target. I figure if you're doing that, that you're within a couple of percent of where you should be training, and you've basically ironed out all the variables ans are then genuinely measuring your fitness and strength. A failed test would be a confirmation that your FTP is at an optimal number, assuming you're training right and haven't backed off for any reason, ie. sickness, holidays, fatigue.

    Sorry about the long posts, they're turning into a stream of consciousness type thing now, and I can't even remember the point I was trying to make, so I hope this makes sense / is relevant!

    MarkP80 wrote:
    dw300 wrote:
    Of the workouts I've tried I'm particularly liking getting off the bike after the following
    - You "like" some of the workouts? :shock:

    Fixed!

    London424 wrote:
    Hi everyone,

    I've just joined both BR and TR and looking to see improvements over the winter.

    A quick question, if my turbo isn't listed what is the best option? I've sent an email asking for it to be added, but in the meantime should I select a different model by the same manufacturer?

    I have a Elite SuperCrono Inertial ElastoGel Turbo and they have an Elite Fluid Alu AKA Chrono Fluid ElastoGel would this be the best proxy until my specific unit is added?

    I understand that it is likely to have a different power curve etc, but if I'm only concerned with measuring improvement against myself would this work?

    Thanks all!

    Welcome to the thread / forum.

    I'm not sure which is closest to you trainer. It's a situation where, even if you pick one that's close, when you change to the correct one once they update, the results probably arent comparable anyway. But I'd pick one and get started, and just retest once they update the profile.

    Nate posts in this thread, you'll see his name in the first several pages. You could try PM'ing him to get the profile done if you get no email response, although they're very good with things like that. They are busy debugging the new Workout Creator at the moment though.

    Ha, this post took so long that you've already had you question answered twice!
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • dw300
    dw300 Posts: 1,642
    T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
    ps: Beta Workout creator has been released. http://www.trainerroad.com/install

    I am highly approving of your new Avi TMHNET! In celebration of which I will post the following! ..

    867110.1135974880787.PaulineNordinSQUAT225.jpg

    15 x Bodyweight Overhead Squats
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    dw300 wrote:
    T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
    ps: Beta Workout creator has been released. http://www.trainerroad.com/install

    I am highly approving of your new Avi TMHNET! In celebration of which I will post the following! ..

    867110.1135974880787.PaulineNordinSQUAT225.jpg

    15 x Bodyweight Overhead Squats
    Yes. One does not simply walk for two days after squatting. The squat to O/H arm swing and lunge with rotation didn't help matters either.

    I'm sure the warmup was harder than the actual practical we did :mrgreen:
  • Barrzy257
    Barrzy257 Posts: 411
    Hi there, just a quick one, during the 8minute test is your FTP worked out over the whole hour? Or just the 8minute intervals, so say if the recovery was lower than the suggested power, or equally if the blow out was higher would this affect my score? First time user!
    Cheers
  • dw300
    dw300 Posts: 1,642
    Barrzy257 wrote:
    Hi there, just a quick one, during the 8minute test is your FTP worked out over the whole hour? Or just the 8minute intervals, so say if the recovery was lower than the suggested power, or equally if the blow out was higher would this affect my score? First time user!
    Cheers

    It's just the 8 minute intervals. It's a percentage of either your normalised power or average power. Not sure which, but likely the NP. In the 20 min test it's 95% of the result.
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • manxshred
    manxshred Posts: 295
    As far as I understand, it is the average power over both 8 minute tests, multiplie by 0.9
    For the 20 min test, it is the average power multiplied by 0.95
  • dw300
    dw300 Posts: 1,642
    I just made a 1hr FTP test in the custom workout maker. Currently having a staring contest with it ..
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • London424
    London424 Posts: 4
    Hmm, well that wasn't a good start to my Trainer Road career.

    I couldn't complete the workout yet my effort felt much higher than when on the road. I think I need to drop my FTP right down to atleast complete it and then go from there. Thoughts?
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    London424 wrote:
    Hmm, well that wasn't a good start to my Trainer Road career.

    I couldn't complete the workout yet my effort felt much higher than when on the road. I think I need to drop my FTP right down to atleast complete it and then go from there. Thoughts?
    Does sound like you were running a bit high. Did you do either the 8min or 20min tests first, or rely on default FTP figures?(200 I think)

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