The official TrainerRoad thread

apos00 · January 2017

I have been using TR for a few months and have been seeing some promising results after completing the high volume sweetspot base I and II. I went from an FTP of 267 to 288 (end of base I) to 303 (end of base II) based on the 8-minute FTP test. I am now standing at 4.4w/kg

I have now moved to the build phase which includes a lot of VO2Max intervals and I have noticed a discrepancy between the actual power target during the workout vs the prescribed power target when looking at the interval data after completing the workout. The prescribed power is always lower than the actual target power given during the workout.

The TR support attributes this to "rounding errors" but I checked myself and not many people get this in their workouts. i know its not that big of a deal but it does make it annoying when looking back at your results and assuming that your FTP has changed since then.

is anyone else experiencing the same issue?

Cheers

Nick Kanwetz · January 2017

bobmcstuff wrote:

Question on plans: I'm currently doing Sweetspot Base II, and I'm at the end of week 4 (of 6). I am away from tomorrow till the 17th, so what I have done, possibly foolishly, is do weeks 4 and 5 together.

I am just about to get on the turbo and finish off the last session in the list (Leconte) - once finished this will be a ~700 indoor TSS week, plus I've done ~90km outdoor riding, so quite a big week all in (13hr of which ~8.5hr on the turbo).

I hope to get some outdoor riding in on the weekend of 14th and 15th, inc one long (4hr) ride, and I may get some gym time once or twice next week.

W/c Monday 16th is supposed to be the "easy" week at the end of the plan.

Question is, do I:

a) do the easy week workouts like normal w/c 16th, even though I'll be in a different place with CTL than I would be had I not done a double week followed by a week off the turbo.

b) add in an extra week of slightly harder workouts and push the easy week back a week.

c) something else - possibly treat next week as the easy week and start on the build plan w/c 16th.

Does it really matter? I'm minded to go with option A for simplicity. Timing wise adding or removing a week doesn't make much difference to me.

Not really all too foolish to pile on the extra work if you know you're going to have an extended period of recovery. That's what is often referred to as a 'Training Camp'.

In fact, we're actually gearing up to release some different camps of our own!

I think option A will likely be your best bet. That is, because you piled on an abnormally high stress load, allowing for extra recovery will play on the predictive nature of the body when you begin your Build plan. Essentially, when you dose your body with abnormally high loads of stress, your body anticipates a higher workload to follow. The caveat here is that you'll need to allow enough recovery between the training. This is basically how all training adaptations are made, but an approach like this can isolate certain adaptations with aims to be even more effective.

Hope this helps!

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System

Nick Kanwetz · January 2017

Pollys Bott wrote:

Just started using TR and did an 8 min FTP test in resistance mode as the wording in this piece

http://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us ... RG-Trainer

just confused the hell out of me. On the one hand it says "If an electronic trainer is left in Erg mode, any test workouts won't assess FTP improvement" but in the preceding paragraph it says "Fortunately, TrainerRoad switches modes for you when you assess your FTP via our 20-Minute Test or our 8-Minute Test." Looking through the comments section at the end I have since concluded that I should do the FTP test in ERG mode and it will automatically default to Resistance mode for the 2 x 8 min intervals; but could someone please confirm that my conclusion is correct?

Many thanks...

Sorry for the confusion here!

For all future FTP assessments on an electronic trainer, you'll simply just leave it in ERG mode and we'll take care of the rest. Like you saw in the comment thread, we'll automatically change the mode of your trainer to allow you to give your all-out effort for the duration of the testing interval(s).

Here's a video that'll help make sure you know the ins & outs of the test for your next go at it: How to: 8-Minute Assessment

Let us know at support@trainerroad.com if you run into any other questions or concerns—we're happy to help.

Cheers,

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System

Nick Kanwetz · January 2017

VinnyMarsden wrote:

I was a staunch user of TR for long enough, but when it went browser based, as opposed to a stand alone piece of actual software I started having all sorts of issues, some/most mentioned by other users...freezing videos's, drop outs, glitches in reading/detecting previously okay sensors.I persevered with it, and to be fair the TR customer care team were excellent, but in the end I just couldn't make it run like it did before. The Windows machine s W10 an all worked well.I have now reluctantly, but necessary to preserve my sanity suspended my TR membership.
Zwift is okay, but a bit too gamesy for me, albeit the graphics are good, there's no denying it.
I opted for Perf Pro, no monthly subs... and up to now everything works perfectly!! That's it now..next ride on PerfPro will crash/destroy my Kickr/computer/bike!!!

I was just scrolling through the thread and noticed I must have overlooked your post. I apologize for the delay Vinny.

Though, our app remains a stand-alone third party software, and not browser based. If you're willing to give things another try, we'll make sure you're not paying for a service you're unable to use and will do our best to get you back on the bike without any hassle.

Let us know if you'd like to give it another shot—we'll look forward to hearing back from you.

Cheers,

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System

Nick Kanwetz · January 2017

gcwebbyuk wrote:

So the two weeks off turned into five weeks...

I'm back on the bike today and just completed Lazy Mountain. I mixed in a couple of out 30 second out of the saddle easy intervals, and a couple of single leg drills - and came away feeling like I had just done a two hour sweet spot effort :oops:

I'm going to quit the Sustained Power Build, and go back to Base again after a week or two of recovery sessions - would it make sense to start with Traditional Base Low 1 just to get back into the swing of things, then after that first 4 weeks switch to Sweet Spot Base Low 1 and then 2? Or should my body be OK to jump straight into Sweet Spot after a couple of easy recovery weeks? :?:

Hehe that tends to happen around the holidays.

You're welcome to go with your approach of dipping into Trad Base before diving back into SSB I & II. Especially if you're still feeling pretty sluggish after the holidays and the sickness. But if you're no longer holding onto any of that lingering fatigue, it's likely you can hop right back into SSB I & II after another FTP assessment. Though, at the end of the day, listen to your body. If you hop back into SSB and are getting completely crushed, maybe a couple easy active recovery weeks will be what you need. Although, if I listened to my body all the time I probably would find myself on the couch a lot. Hehe!

Anyway, hope this helps get you back on track!

Cheers,

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System

Nick Kanwetz · January 2017

UKCarl wrote:

New here (as a poster) and also new to TR having previously mtb'd 8-10hrs a week "as I feel". However I have accepted family challenge race so will be trying structured training for the first time.

Purchasing a Tacx Flow smart, also have an Iphone6s for the app and signing up for TR, however the 2 outstanding questions are;

I'm guessing my Garmin HR belt is only Ant+ so I either need a new BT belt or Ant+ adapter for my Iphone?
Do I need a separate speed sensor, from posts they seem to give a more accurate reading but is this important?

I'll post up my FTP increases (hopefully!!) over the next 6 months.

thanks

Carl

Hey Carl, welcome aboard!

With TrainerRoad on your iPhone, the Tacx Flow can be electronically controlled via native Bluetooth or ANT+ in accordance with the demands of your workouts. So we'll be electronically controlling the resistance of your trainer to make sure you're hitting all your power targets. It's pretty nifty.

Regarding your HRM, Garmin nearly always has ANT+-only devices so the two options you mentioned will be your choices: either grab a BT compatible HRM or get the extra ANT+ devices for your iPhone.

In case you go with the latter, you'll need the Apple lightening to 30-pin adapter and Wahoo Black ANT+ key. You can get both by following those hyperlinks. Keep in mind you'll need these specific devices as cheaper knock-off brands will not work.

Please don't hesitate to get in touch with us at support@trainerroad.com if you run into any other questions or concerns.

Happy Training!

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System

daniel_b · January 2017

Hi Nick,

thankyou for all your help so far, I started a 6 week block 10 days or so ago, and am progressing nicely, although my pwoer is horrendously down due to being lazy and eating too much - hoping that will come back faster than you might otherwise expect improvements if that makes sense.

Couple of questions for you, and I should have grabbed a screenshot really, but on the devices screen, it shows me IIRC, the Ant+ turbo with power and cadence\speed, it also shows me a power meter seperately, and lastly my external speed and cadence sensors.

My issue with getting the turbo to calibrate on TR seemed to be because I was trying to calibrate through the first option, but as soon as I chose the lone power meter, it worked straight away - strange?
With regards to the cadence, I regularly see it drop to 0, and then come back up, do you think that could be because it is using the Tacx guesstimate rather than the external setup?
Do you think I should tell it to diconnect from the turbo\cadence and give it the power meter and external cadence\speed instead?
But then I guess the ERG mode would not work?

On the subject of the ERG mode, it seems to take around a minute, or sometimes longer for the power to come into line with the requirement of the workout, ie when it changes from say 100 - 120.
The only way I can find around this, is to knock it up a gear, and pedal harder about 6 seconds before the end of the previosu interval, this then getis it up to about the right level, and I can either stay in that gear, or knock it down again once the resistance kicks in.
Am I doing this wrong, or might it be an issue with the trainer, or is it just a limitation?

And finally, for the time being (Sorry!) I am finding I am useless at the 1 legged drills, they are always knocking, and I get tired quickly - I don't recall quite the same issues last summer, so assume it is just because I am down on power at the moment, but am wondering if I should persevere, or leave it out of this 6 week block, and try and get back to it in the next 6 week block - any thoughts?

Thanks

Dan

Vslowpace · January 2017

ERG mode should kick in fairly close to the change in the workout. With Ant+ I find it is about 2 seconds ahead of the change, with BT slightly longer (3-4 seconds) It may be that is due to your selection of devices. I have to say I also found the choices I had with my Tacx trainer confusing and it was trial and error to select the right one, however IIRC you should be looking for a FE-c trainer

Power loss won't be down through eating too much i'm afraid, it will be down to not enough training

daniel_b · January 2017

Vslowpace wrote:

ERG mode should kick in fairly close to the change in the workout. With Ant+ I find it is about 2 seconds ahead of the change, with BT slightly longer (3-4 seconds) It may be that is due to your selection of devices. I have to say I also found the choices I had with my Tacx trainer confusing and it was trial and error to select the right one, however IIRC you should be looking for a FE-c trainer

Power loss won't be down through eating too much i'm afraid, it will be down to not enough training

Thanks vslow, maybe I will have to have a bit of a tinker to see what I can make happen, had heard some people say it was a bit slow to react.

And no, I wasn't saying it was purely down to that, I just meant the lazy bit was not riding or training enough, and combine that with eating too much cr@p and the effects are NEGATIVE :-(

gcwebbyuk · January 2017

How tired should I be feeling after workouts? I've been using TrainerRoad for about 18 months now and have improved slowly. I have seen others get a greater gain in FTP than I have made over this time, and I wonder if I am not doing the FTP tests well enough to scale the following workouts.

With most of the workouts - sweet spot base and sustained power - I feel they have been hard to complete, but I feel no muscle soreness or real fatigue. Should I bump my FTP up slightly or scale the workouts up a bit?

norvernrob · January 2017

gcwebbyuk wrote:

How tired should I be feeling after workouts? I've been using TrainerRoad for about 18 months now and have improved slowly. I have seen others get a greater gain in FTP than I have made over this time, and I wonder if I am not doing the FTP tests well enough to scale the following workouts.

With most of the workouts - sweet spot base and sustained power - I feel they have been hard to complete, but I feel no muscle soreness or real fatigue. Should I bump my FTP up slightly or scale the workouts up a bit?

When I did sustained power build I found the under-over workouts utterly hideous, and I was at the absolute limit on most of them. If you think you can do more I'd try another FTP test in case it's set too low.

gcwebbyuk · January 2017

I've done a few over unders, and although they are hard, they aren't hideous.

I've done several FTP tests over the 18 or so months, and I try on all of them to push myself to the limit. I usually use Sufferfest Rubber Glove rather than the trainerroad ones though.

I find that I am limited on my lungs rather than my legs (I have mild asthma) and never really feel a burning in my legs during the workouts.

I'm recovering from a bug induced 5 weeks off the bike at the moment, so not an ideal example - but today I completed Mount Field using my pre-bug FTP of 191w. The 12 minute intervals were hard from a fatigue point of view, and I have leg tiredness this afternoon - but not to the point that I can't exercise tomorrow as well.

I was planning on doing another 1h30m session this weekend, and then starting on a new plan next week. Should I maybe use the 8min FTP test instead of the 20 min version?

markp80 · January 2017

gcwebbyuk wrote:

I've done several FTP tests over the 18 or so months, and I try on all of them to push myself to the limit. I usually use Sufferfest Rubber Glove rather than the trainerroad ones though.

Should I maybe use the 8min FTP test instead of the 20 min version?

I'd say yes, give the 8min test a go.
I find that personally, I'm able to push myself to the limit more effectively over 8 mins than 20, so it works for me. The 8 min test also has two intervals, so I find that helps in gauging the effore too.

Give it a go and see how you get on.

MarkP

gcwebbyuk · January 2017

I tried the 8 Min test yesterday, and it didn't go as well as hoped...

I was expecting to be down on power following the illness, but I still tried to push myself to the wattage shown during the first interval (stupid I know). I was unable to sustain it for 4 mins so had to have a pause and start again. On the second interval I paced myself much better. My wattage was down by 12w from 191 to 179w, so hopefully after a 6 week batch of sweet spot base I can get back where I was.

bobmcstuff · January 2017

Nick Kanwetz wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Question on plans: I'm currently doing Sweetspot Base II, and I'm at the end of week 4 (of 6). I am away from tomorrow till the 17th, so what I have done, possibly foolishly, is do weeks 4 and 5 together.

I am just about to get on the turbo and finish off the last session in the list (Leconte) - once finished this will be a ~700 indoor TSS week, plus I've done ~90km outdoor riding, so quite a big week all in (13hr of which ~8.5hr on the turbo).

I hope to get some outdoor riding in on the weekend of 14th and 15th, inc one long (4hr) ride, and I may get some gym time once or twice next week.

W/c Monday 16th is supposed to be the "easy" week at the end of the plan.

Question is, do I:

a) do the easy week workouts like normal w/c 16th, even though I'll be in a different place with CTL than I would be had I not done a double week followed by a week off the turbo.

b) add in an extra week of slightly harder workouts and push the easy week back a week.

c) something else - possibly treat next week as the easy week and start on the build plan w/c 16th.

Does it really matter? I'm minded to go with option A for simplicity. Timing wise adding or removing a week doesn't make much difference to me.

Not really all too foolish to pile on the extra work if you know you're going to have an extended period of recovery. That's what is often referred to as a 'Training Camp'. In fact, we're actually gearing up to release some different camps of our own!

I think option A will likely be your best bet. That is, because you piled on an abnormally high stress load, allowing for extra recovery will play on the predictive nature of the body when you begin your Build plan. Essentially, when you dose your body with abnormally high loads of stress, your body anticipates a higher workload to follow. The caveat here is that you'll need to allow enough recovery between the training. This is basically how all training adaptations are made, but an approach like this can isolate certain adaptations with aims to be even more effective.

Hope this helps!

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System

This is what I did in the end, must have worked out quite well as my new FTP last night was 19 watts higher than my last one

Nick Kanwetz · January 2017

Daniel B wrote:

Hi Nick,

thankyou for all your help so far, I started a 6 week block 10 days or so ago, and am progressing nicely, although my pwoer is horrendously down due to being lazy and eating too much - hoping that will come back faster than you might otherwise expect improvements if that makes sense.

Couple of questions for you, and I should have grabbed a screenshot really, but on the devices screen, it shows me IIRC, the Ant+ turbo with power and cadence\speed, it also shows me a power meter seperately, and lastly my external speed and cadence sensors.

My issue with getting the turbo to calibrate on TR seemed to be because I was trying to calibrate through the first option, but as soon as I chose the lone power meter, it worked straight away - strange?
With regards to the cadence, I regularly see it drop to 0, and then come back up, do you think that could be because it is using the Tacx guesstimate rather than the external setup?
Do you think I should tell it to diconnect from the turbo\cadence and give it the power meter and external cadence\speed instead?
But then I guess the ERG mode would not work?

On the subject of the ERG mode, it seems to take around a minute, or sometimes longer for the power to come into line with the requirement of the workout, ie when it changes from say 100 - 120.
The only way I can find around this, is to knock it up a gear, and pedal harder about 6 seconds before the end of the previosu interval, this then getis it up to about the right level, and I can either stay in that gear, or knock it down again once the resistance kicks in.
Am I doing this wrong, or might it be an issue with the trainer, or is it just a limitation?

And finally, for the time being (Sorry!) I am finding I am useless at the 1 legged drills, they are always knocking, and I get tired quickly - I don't recall quite the same issues last summer, so assume it is just because I am down on power at the moment, but am wondering if I should persevere, or leave it out of this 6 week block, and try and get back to it in the next 6 week block - any thoughts?

Thanks

Dan

Really happy to help, Dan! And that totally makes sense. Haha

So if I understand correctly, you're seeing the following pairing options: ANT+ FE-C trainer (which also provides a "virtual" cadence reading and speed readings), a separate speed/cadence sensor combo, and a separate power meter.

Then, when you try to calibrate when having just the ANT+ FE-C trainer paired, you're not receiving a "calibration successful" message. Correct? Then when you pair the separate power meter by itself, you're able to calibrate? If you're trying to calibrate the separate "power meter" (which is just the power-measuring device within the Vortex) this is a different form of calibration than what should be performed with the ANT+ FE-C trainer. The calibration for the trainer is what's known as a spindown calibration.

I know we've mentioned this before, but our first recommendation is to play with the roller tension on the wheel with unsuccessful calibrations. If you're still unable to get this done please shoot us an email and we'll be able to look into things a little further within your career.

Regarding the cadence, you're definitely going to get more reliable cadence readings from a dedicated cadence measuring device. The Vortex provides a "virtual" cadence, so if users' have the extra equipment we recommend they use the dedicated sensors. If you pair the ANT+ FE-C trainer + the dedicated sensors (without pairing the additional "power meter"), the dedicated speed and cadence sensor will take priority over the trainer's speed and cadence readings while still giving you ERG control. But you're correct, by pairing the "power meter" and speed/cadence sensors you would no longer have ERG control.

I recommend pairing the ANT+ FE-C trainer + dedicated speed&cadence combo.

On the subject of ERG taking a while to adjust: this sounds a bit wonky. I think it would be a good idea for you to shoot us an email at support@trainerroad.com so we can look into things a bit more in-depth. That way we can take a look at the calibration stuff as well.

The isolate leg training shouldn't be as much a focus on power as it is more a focus on efficiency. If you're finding you have temporarily low power with the ILT, no need to worry. Switch your trainer mode out of ERG so you're not locked into the power and can still get some isolated leg focus in. We usually recommend users include these drills 2-3 times per week, but if you want to focus solely on getting some of your power back before hopping back into these drills feel free to do so.

We'll look forward to hearing from you to get you back on track. Thanks again Dan!

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System

Nick Kanwetz · January 2017

gcwebbyuk wrote:

How tired should I be feeling after workouts? I've been using TrainerRoad for about 18 months now and have improved slowly. I have seen others get a greater gain in FTP than I have made over this time, and I wonder if I am not doing the FTP tests well enough to scale the following workouts.

With most of the workouts - sweet spot base and sustained power - I feel they have been hard to complete, but I feel no muscle soreness or real fatigue. Should I bump my FTP up slightly or scale the workouts up a bit?

You should certainly be feeling a challenge with your workouts, but still fresh enough to feel recovered for your next scheduled ride. Some people's bodies respond to structured training differently and some see more rapid improvements than others. Modest improvements are still improvements but I'm curious—have you been following a structured training plan over the 18 months you've been training with us? It's safe to say that those with the biggest improvements have been users utilizing our training plans.

That being said, there is a chance your FTP tests are underestimating your actual FTP. After all, it is just an estimation. Give the article below a look-over before your next test, and in the meantime, try bumping up the intensity (+/- in bottom corner of workouts screen) if your ride isn't really feeling all that challenging.

How to get your best FTP results

Cheers,

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System

gcwebbyuk · January 2017

You should certainly be feeling a challenge with your workouts, but still fresh enough to feel recovered for your next scheduled ride. Some people's bodies respond to structured training differently and some see more rapid improvements than others. Modest improvements are still improvements but I'm curious—have you been following a structured training plan over the 18 months you've been training with us? It's safe to say that those with the biggest improvements have been users utilizing our training plans.

That being said, there is a chance your FTP tests are underestimating your actual FTP. After all, it is just an estimation. Give the article below a look-over before your next test, and in the meantime, try bumping up the intensity (+/- in bottom corner of workouts screen) if your ride isn't really feeling all that challenging.

How to get your best FTP results

Cheers,

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System[/quote]

I've been following them on and off. I started with traditional base, which saw quite a good improvement from a low FTP (around 140w I think) due to returning to cycling after a long (10 year ish) break. I've then done a couple of sweet spot base plans - but these have only been in winter/autumn so mixed with general riding in the spring/summer.

Overall I have made a good improvement, it just seems to have tailed off a bit after the last plan.

This could be down to physical issues though, and I am scheduled in for another bike fit in a few weeks.

I will carry on with sweet spot base 1 and see how things go 8)

bobmcstuff · January 2017

/\ I certainly find the longer sweetspot intervals a bit challenging especially on an empty stomach. Although in my experience if you're sticking within sweetspot I don't really notice much fatigue in my muscles afterwards.

Towards the end of my last plan (sweetspot base LV 2) I was completing some of the workouts at 106% because I was finding that despite the relatively long durations in sweetspot I wasn't really feeling pushed (and my heart rate wasn't getting near what I normally expect for sweetspot).

Have retested and surprise surprise, there was a significant increase in FTP.

Unfortunately this has made the general build workouts much harder

ohfreak · January 2017

Looking for someone who needs a referral for a free one-month trial for TR - TR says I can give it away but none of my buddies want/need it.

Let me know!

bobinski · January 2017

I will take it off you if still free

bobinski at gmail.com

Nick Kanwetz · February 2017

gcwebbyuk wrote:

I've been following them on and off. I started with traditional base, which saw quite a good improvement from a low FTP (around 140w I think) due to returning to cycling after a long (10 year ish) break. I've then done a couple of sweet spot base plans - but these have only been in winter/autumn so mixed with general riding in the spring/summer.

Overall I have made a good improvement, it just seems to have tailed off a bit after the last plan.

This could be down to physical issues though, and I am scheduled in for another bike fit in a few weeks.

I will carry on with sweet spot base 1 and see how things go 8)

Cool! If you're up to it, try progressing through an entire Base/Build/Specialty cycle, even if you don't have any events you're necessarily preparing for. Our Base plans are meant to cultivate strength and muscular endurance that'll lay the groundwork to be build upon in our Build phase. During the Build phase, you'll focus on building your sustained power, short-punchy power, or varying mixes of the two. The Base and Build plans will be where we see most improvements in FTP.

Then the Specialty phase strives to bring everything together. By making your training as specific to your rider-type as possible, you'll be able to sharpen and refine your skills you've established over the previous months of training.

I think following your Base training with a Build plan will be a good approach to try and make some further progress with your fitness. Keep us in the loop on how it goes!

Thanks!

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training System

Andy19111964 · February 2017

I've been using TR since October 2106, started with the sweet spot base plan mid-volume and increased my FTP by 30 watts (weight still remained the same) over the 12 weeks. I then moved on to general build mid-volume. All was good until the 5th week in, did the 8min test and went up a few watts. But since then I've struggled to hit the targets in some of the sessions; I just cant seem to push my legs any harder in these instances and had to reduce the intensity down to 90 to 95 %. And then a few days later I will be ok again, but its a bit hit and miss, whereas before this I've managed to hit all the targets. I'm 52, so I'm wandering if the plan doesn't give me sufficient recovery. I understand a masters plan is coming out soon. It's not just me either. My friend is doing the same as me as we are both doing the same race in April. He has hit the same problem. Legs that usually feel like they have a spring in them have become heavy and leaden. He's 50 too.

So, I'm just reaching out to see if anyone else has experienced anything similar, of a similar age? Not necessarily looking for an answer as I'm guessing it's accumulated fatigue over the 4 months and therefore more recovery might be needed. As it's a generic plan recovery needs to be subjective. But it's a fine line between this and wandering if you should keep pushing to break through and adapt

peteco · February 2017

I haven't seen similar (yet), but I can share my experiences as another 52 year old.

Started TR in August last year, and did the standard Base and Build phases with few interruptions, other than the odd 1 week holiday (some cycling) and 2 weeks off over Christmas for the Rapha Festive 500 + recovery. I am currently doing the Criterium Specialised phase just because I realise short power is a weakness for me.

I have only ever done the low or medium volume phases, as I don't have the time for High volume options.
I tend to skip the Sunday longer session for an outdoor ride, which can leave me fatigued for the beginning of the following week, but I seem to manage.

My FTP has gone from 170 to 230 in the 6 months I have been using TR, and at the moment I am keeping up with the plan, but some of those sprints are hard ! I have 4 weeks to go on the current specialised plan, but expect to see some gains when I re-do an FTP test.

My thoughts are:

Are you doing the high volume options - perhaps this is too much.
What is your general workload like for family and work activities - could this be fatiguing you.
How are you measuring power ? Could virtual power be drifting during the weeks of the phase ?
You don't mention what weight you are - if you are super skinny then you may need to bulk up.
You also don't mention what your current FTP is - it could be massive, and small gains is all you are going to get.

You could also pose a question to the TR podcast (on their website) - you always get well thought through responses from there and here.

Pete

daniel_b · February 2017

@Nick - thanks for your earlier comprehensive reply.

I have not yet e-mailed your support, but am nearly finished with this 6 week course, so will wait to see how the FTP goes for the next one, and if issues still occur I'll drop them a line.

I have given my gf a one months free trial, and set her up with my old Elite fluid crono turbo, and an Ant speed and cadence sensor - she carried out her ftp yesterday early doors, although I think she carried it out at far too high a cadence, but there we go.

Anyway, that was with my borrowed Suunto ANT Usb stick, but she liked it enough, that I have just ordered her the Lifeline one from Wiggle, and in theory, if it arrives in time, we are both lanning to turbo at stupid o'clock on Saturday in the garage, while my daughter hopefully sleeps on, and we have the baby monitor in with us.

My question is - will it be fun and games getting the respective laptops to pick up their respect Ant devices, or if I do mine first, and then power hers up it should in theory be ok, as they are already paired?

Andy19111964 · February 2017

peteco wrote:

I haven't seen similar (yet), but I can share my experiences as another 52 year old.

Started TR in August last year, and did the standard Base and Build phases with few interruptions, other than the odd 1 week holiday (some cycling) and 2 weeks off over Christmas for the Rapha Festive 500 + recovery. I am currently doing the Criterium Specialised phase just because I realise short power is a weakness for me.

I have only ever done the low or medium volume phases, as I don't have the time for High volume options.
I tend to skip the Sunday longer session for an outdoor ride, which can leave me fatigued for the beginning of the following week, but I seem to manage.

My FTP has gone from 170 to 230 in the 6 months I have been using TR, and at the moment I am keeping up with the plan, but some of those sprints are hard ! I have 4 weeks to go on the current specialised plan, but expect to see some gains when I re-do an FTP test.

My thoughts are:

Are you doing the high volume options - perhaps this is too much.
What is your general workload like for family and work activities - could this be fatiguing you.
How are you measuring power ? Could virtual power be drifting during the weeks of the phase ?
You don't mention what weight you are - if you are super skinny then you may need to bulk up.
You also don't mention what your current FTP is - it could be massive, and small gains is all you are going to get.

You could also pose a question to the TR podcast (on their website) - you always get well thought through responses from there and here.

Pete

Thanks Pete. I opted for mid-volume to compensate for family and work. Power is measured by Powertap P1 pedals, so this is a consistent value. I'm 77kg at 6ft and my FTP is currently 257. Yes thought about the podcast, so will maybe give that a try. My own opinion is that the recovery weeks are possibly too hard even at only sweet spot. Next time I will use Petit for 2 or 3 sessions and hopefully it will give more recovery time. Great work on your FTP by the way, excellent gain

dinyull · February 2017

Andy19111964 wrote:

I've been using TR since October 2106, started with the sweet spot base plan mid-volume and increased my FTP by 30 watts (weight still remained the same) over the 12 weeks. I then moved on to general build mid-volume. All was good until the 5th week in, did the 8min test and went up a few watts. But since then I've struggled to hit the targets in some of the sessions; I just cant seem to push my legs any harder in these instances and had to reduce the intensity down to 90 to 95 %. And then a few days later I will be ok again, but its a bit hit and miss, whereas before this I've managed to hit all the targets. I'm 52, so I'm wandering if the plan doesn't give me sufficient recovery. I understand a masters plan is coming out soon. It's not just me either. My friend is doing the same as me as we are both doing the same race in April. He has hit the same problem. Legs that usually feel like they have a spring in them have become heavy and leaden. He's 50 too.

So, I'm just reaching out to see if anyone else has experienced anything similar, of a similar age? Not necessarily looking for an answer as I'm guessing it's accumulated fatigue over the 4 months and therefore more recovery might be needed. As it's a generic plan recovery needs to be subjective. But it's a fine line between this and wandering if you should keep pushing to break through and adapt

I suffered similar...although in my early 30's. The general build is a big step up from base work and I found that being fully recovered and focused was key in completing the workouts - especially after the re-test in week 4. If I could still feel the effects of the weekend ride or had a stressful day at work I'd try to push the session back a day.

Andy19111964 · February 2017

Dinyull wrote:

Andy19111964 wrote:

I've been using TR since October 2106, started with the sweet spot base plan mid-volume and increased my FTP by 30 watts (weight still remained the same) over the 12 weeks. I then moved on to general build mid-volume. All was good until the 5th week in, did the 8min test and went up a few watts. But since then I've struggled to hit the targets in some of the sessions; I just cant seem to push my legs any harder in these instances and had to reduce the intensity down to 90 to 95 %. And then a few days later I will be ok again, but its a bit hit and miss, whereas before this I've managed to hit all the targets. I'm 52, so I'm wandering if the plan doesn't give me sufficient recovery. I understand a masters plan is coming out soon. It's not just me either. My friend is doing the same as me as we are both doing the same race in April. He has hit the same problem. Legs that usually feel like they have a spring in them have become heavy and leaden. He's 50 too.

So, I'm just reaching out to see if anyone else has experienced anything similar, of a similar age? Not necessarily looking for an answer as I'm guessing it's accumulated fatigue over the 4 months and therefore more recovery might be needed. As it's a generic plan recovery needs to be subjective. But it's a fine line between this and wandering if you should keep pushing to break through and adapt

I suffered similar...although in my early 30's. The general build is a big step up from base work and I found that being fully recovered and focused was key in completing the workouts - especially after the re-test in week 4. If I could still feel the effects of the weekend ride or had a stressful day at work I'd try to push the session back a day.

Interesting that you had similar and younger too. I agree its a big jump up. The first four weeks of build were tough but got through them just about. 5th and 6th week its been a bit of a mess. That 4th week recovery isn't low enough in intensity I reckon. Like I say recovery is subjective in a generic plan. Sure sign that something isn't right by using power we have the tool to know when recovery is needed if the targets are not being met in the workouts. Thanks for your input

dinyull · February 2017

I'mm mention it again, but stress is important to take into account too. I would have laughed it off before using TR, but if I'd had a stressful day I'd really struggle with a workout. I could knock the same workout again the next day no problem whatsoever (even with aching legs) if I'd had an easier day at work.

ohfreak · February 2017

I'm 45 with what I thought was a pretty well-established base and jumped right into a mid-volume general build as my first real foray into structured training. I'm about four weeks in and I've definitely noticed the need for additional recovery/scaling back the TSS - particularly after the Tuesday & Thursday sessions.

I've also been doing relatively big outdoor rides (sometimes significantly more stressful than the ride TR prescribes) every Saturday, so that's complicating things.

Overall still satisfied with how it's going and digging the TR.

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