Wiggins 2012 performance

ddraver

Rundfahrt wrote:

Pross wrote:

Rundfahrt wrote:

.......Just more of the defense of LA/Postal back in their day. That's the great thing about the guys who are arguing with me so vociferously, you guys are doing so in the exact manner the LA/Postal defenders did back then and guys like you relished ripping on them (and yes I know who you and your dd buddy are and which forums you used to post on. But no I am not the poster you think I am!).

I think I will bid you adieu on this topic as it's clear that you are dead set on saying anything you have to say to keep pushing your opinion as the only right one. Feel free to keep going if you must, but you really could learn a thing or two from Jez about discussing topics with someone you don't agree with.

You claim to want reasonable debate but you back away when someone gives it. mfin has suggested looking at the power data and making comparisons so why not go away and do that - if Sky are pumping out the same wattages as the USPS boys were come back with the relevant links and I will happily admit that it is suspicious. Everything I have read so far on the matter suggests that the w/kg that Froome and Wiggins have been producing have been within the accepted bounds of physiology whereas those of LA were not. It would appear you could also learn from Jez about discussing things with those who disagree with you. What exactly is it that is causing so much suspicion? Is it just that Sky have a few riders left at the front on mountain stages? Riders who would probably be the GC contender in many other teams? I've said it elsewhere but the break actually gained time on yesterday's big climb whilst EBH was on the front. VDB managed a couple a minor attacks going uphill and eventually rode away with Rolland, Nibs stayed away solo for a good few kms and eventually eased up whilst the Wiggins group contained a load of mediocre GC riders. Froome's TT is about the only example of something perhaps out of the ordinary but he showed promise in the TT right back in his initial Tour as a 23 year old. On the balance of probabilities I would say that his results in the interim years were adversely affected by illness and he has shown good TT form for the last 2 seasons. Wiggins has always been one of the best TT riders and his 'dominance' has been skewed by a slightly below par performance by Canc (in relation to all riders, not just Wiggins) and Martin's injury - they are the only 2 riders who have consistently beaten Wiggins in the last few years. The only resembalance to USPS appears to be in Sky having a team that can put a few riders on the front in the mountains and even that ends when you look at how hard they are riding in comparison.

No, Mfin decided to demand something else when I met his original demand.

I stopped reading when I got to the part where you asked what is causing suspicion as I, and many others all over the web(not talking about the loons at CN) including cycling insiders and journalists, have answered that question quite thoroughly.

Keep using the LA/Postal answers to defend your beloved Sky boys...it's great humour

(drunk)

I notice you did nt actually answer any of Pross's points there Rundy....

Gazzetta67

Does anyone think that Wiggins will crack next week in the pyrenees - making a few faces today.....surely they cant balls it up again like last years vuelta forcing froome who's the strongest wait.

Jez mon

(maybe drunk)

Look at the time gaps, Wiggo needs to crack properly for him to lose yellow, personally, Can't quite see that happening, even if he does lose yellow, a further sufficient time gap would be required for a TT cushion.

Besides, a 10 m (at most) gap and people are talking about Froome like he's the best climber since Pantani, keep it in your pants guys!

ocdupalais

(utterly shober)

Wiggins's post-stage chat with Ned Bunting showed a relaxed man in control and enjoying his position- a cheeky glint in his eye. He said that at the point Froome went off the front in the last 5 km he was "having a breather"... As he showed on Planches Des BF, he can cope with the best on the steep stuff. OK, that was "only" 5.5km, but look at Evans today (stage 11). I think Froome is fantastic, but can't help thinking of Scrappy Doo every time I see him race - with his puppy-like enthusiasm for the job... Widdling on the kitchen floor every time someone attacks.

Wiggins will put nearly 2 mins into everyone in the final TT.

Bakunin

Wiggins was impressive today. At different times, he took the race by the neck and squeezed.

Nibs and Evans know that its over.

When Froome was close to blowing, Wiggins (with no teammates) got on with it. When Froome came back and went ET, Wiggins fought back.

Big difference from the Cofidis rider a few years back who went on a solo ride for like a million Ks.

mfin

So Mr Rundfahrt, you did say you knew who I was 'on other forums'... I was only representing a pretty reasonable argument you know. I wouldn't be too presumptuous but it seems that a fair amount of people here were agreeing with me after you got a bit daft about it??! ...I dunno, why not add to the debate though, its always welcome to have some good evidence and pointers on any topic really.

Rundfahrt

mfin wrote:

So Mr Rundfahrt, you did say you knew who I was 'on other forums'... I was only representing a pretty reasonable argument you know. I wouldn't be too presumptuous but it seems that a fair amount of people here were agreeing with me after you got a bit daft about it??! ...I dunno, why not add to the debate though, its always welcome to have some good evidence and pointers on any topic really.

I have added plenty to the debate, but you guys prefer to move the goalposts and use misdirection and insults in order to not even think about what I am putting forth. An easy example being when you demanded facts to back up what I was saying, then, when I posted some, you moved the demand to wanting numbers. Another example, you claiming I got "daft about it." You can't stand for people to have opposing viewpoints, you are simply closed minded and it especially hurts when someone points out that you (and others) are defending Sky/Wiggins just like people defended LA/Postal in their day. It kills you because you were all over those fans for saying these things.

I'll will do the same with you as I did with your troll buddy and bid you adieu.

bompington

Rundfahrt wrote:

I'll will do the same with you as I did with your troll buddy and bid you adieu.

If only... :roll:

mfin

Rundfahrt wrote:

mfin wrote:

So Mr Rundfahrt, you did say you knew who I was 'on other forums'... I was only representing a pretty reasonable argument you know. I wouldn't be too presumptuous but it seems that a fair amount of people here were agreeing with me after you got a bit daft about it??! ...I dunno, why not add to the debate though, its always welcome to have some good evidence and pointers on any topic really.

I have added plenty to the debate, but you guys prefer to move the goalposts and use misdirection and insults in order to not even think about what I am putting forth. An easy example being when you demanded facts to back up what I was saying, then, when I posted some, you moved the demand to wanting numbers. Another example, you claiming I got "daft about it." You can't stand for people to have opposing viewpoints, you are simply closed minded and it especially hurts when someone points out that you (and others) are defending Sky/Wiggins just like people defended LA/Postal in their day. It kills you because you were all over those fans for saying these things.

I'll will do the same with you as I did with your troll buddy and bid you adieu.

I honestly think you have lost the plot.

You're being completely hypocritical for one.

Then you make stuff up, like me 'demanding' you go look at the numbers, when I more suggested you could find some numbers which support what you'd said, that's all. I didn't 'demand' anything. (I also think your idea when you can call something you've said a 'fact', is wayward.)

What I can assure you of though is your assessment of me as someone not 'being able to stand this or that', well, it might be your assessment, but there are a couple of things that 'stand out' there, first, its not true, and secondly, based on that example, your amateur psychology skills must be non-existent.

I'll tell you what, there are a lot of people on here (who often display a great sense of humour, and must be of all ages, educations, knowledge and experience) who post some really insightful, thoughtful and intelligent stuff, who are just as much strangers to me as as anyone else, and I often feel a little awe and definitely plenty of respect for their intelligence. These so numerous people have such a depth of knowledge, impartiality, and their contribution to the debate on so many subjects is such a good thing. They stimulate conversation, provide great links, information, and answers and opinions to questions put to them - all out of nothing but their own interests and passion for a subject.

You are not one of them.

TTFN

derbygrimpeur

mfin wrote:

You are not one of them.

agreed, although he thinks he is

rdt

Rundfahrt wrote:

I have added plenty to the debate, but you guys prefer to move the goalposts and use misdirection and insults in order to not even think about what I am putting forth.

Cry-baby trolling is a novel combo, R-fahrt, and you're to be commended for your innovation.

disgruntledgoat

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs

I see Fran Millar has had a word... definitive enough for ya?

Turfle

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

disgruntledgoat

Rather disappointed he's bringing his lad up a Wigan fan though.

pepelepew_2724

Stanley222 wrote:

Crankbrother wrote:

Until Wiggins wins a mountain top finish he doesn't get my respect ...

So despite being an Olympic gold medallist, winning the Dauphine, currently holding the yellow jersey and having one hand on the final trophy you still dont respect him!?! :roll:

I'm sure Wiggins is devastated.

slim_boy_fat

pepelepew_2724 wrote:

Stanley222 wrote:

Crankbrother wrote:

Until Wiggins wins a mountain top finish he doesn't get my respect ...

So despite being an Olympic gold medallist, winning the Dauphine, currently holding the yellow jersey and having one hand on the final trophy you still dont respect him!?! :roll:

I'm sure Wiggins is devastated.

He will probably abandon

Crozza

disgruntledgoat wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs

I see Fran Millar has had a word... definitive enough for ya?

thanks for posting, enjoyed reading that

If true, then my respect for him has just increased.

If not true, I respect his massive cahones for writing that piece whilst doping - that would take some big brass ones!

pb21

Turfle wrote:

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

To that extent?

I think someone saying these kinds of things publically is either clean, or deluded, and I dont think Wiggins is deluded.

samiam

Turfle wrote:

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

Remove that tin foil hat from head asap.

inkyfingers

Crankbrother wrote:

Until Wiggins wins a mountain top finish he doesn't get my respect ...

Interestingly, I can't recall Evans or Nibali ever winning a mountain top finish it a GT either.

rebs

Turfle wrote:

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

Not trying to call you out. But like who would you refer to? Who has said what Wiggins has in the past and been caught doping?

I found it interesting what he said about how he would be treated in the UK then say France/Italy if he juiced up. Am interested to know what type of a relationship he has with Millar. I see it as a friendly relationship with Wiggins calling him a bellend from time to time like 2 mates in a pub slaging each other off for mistakes they have made :P

LangerDan

pb21 wrote:

Turfle wrote:

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

To that extent?

I think His Lanceness has made similar defences in the past and I recall an interview (prob in Procycling or Cycle Sport) with David Millar about a decade ago when he was criticizing dopers at the same time as he was using the stuff himself.

disgruntledgoat

Turfle wrote:

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

Honestly, what more can the bloke do?

disgruntledgoat

LangerDan wrote:

pb21 wrote:

Turfle wrote:

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

To that extent?

I think His Lanceness has made similar defences in the past and I recall an interview (prob in Procycling or Cycle Sport) with David Millar about a decade ago when he was criticizing dopers at the same time as he was using the stuff himself.

I don't think either ever submited a 500 word piece to a national newspaper exclusively about doping stating categorically that they have never and would never dope and why they've been less vocal about it than in the past.

Millar only criticised Gaumont directl I think, calling him "this lunatic", which from other tales about Gaumont seems reasonably accurate. I don't recall hly Dave ever criticising dopers pre or post-ban. Just doping.

ddraver

Great Piece! Hopefully that might zip Bernie up for a bit! Shame he could nt have said it in the press conference but hey ho....

Turfle

pb21 wrote:

Turfle wrote:

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

To that extent?

I think someone saying these kinds of things publically is either clean, or deluded, and I dont think Wiggins is deluded.

Maybe not to the extent of writing a blog.

Like I said I'm glad he wrote it, but I can't see it altering anyone's perceptions.

jswba

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Turfle wrote:

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

Honestly, what more can the bloke do?

Dare we say 'publish his blood values'?

<runs and hides>

rebs

ddraver wrote:

Great Piece! Hopefully that might zip Bernie up for a bit! Shame he could nt have said it in the press conference but hey ho....

How would you go about saying saying that detailed in a press conference after riding up a mountain for a good few hours?:P

I really do think they should scrap such press conferences it's very rare you get anything worthwhile from them. Contradicting myself Wiggins has been very good at making them entertaining intentially and unintentially :P

disgruntledgoat

jswba wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Turfle wrote:

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

Honestly, what more can the bloke do?

Dare we say 'publish his blood values'?

<runs and hides>

I don't understand publishing blood values publically. They have to submit to the Bio Passport where they're reviewed by experts... I have no knowledge of haematology, to the extent that I've probably spelt it wrong, and neitherdo 99.9% of the population. What would you gain by seeing these?

ddraver

jswba wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Turfle wrote:

It' s a nice read. A lot of dopers have said the same thing though, so ultimately it won't mean much, but still worth writing I think.

Honestly, what more can the bloke do?

Dare we say 'publish his blood values'?

<runs and hides>

If DB is serious about Manchester (??) I suspect that they might well do. Not during the race though, A They ve got to wait for the results and B they might help other teams beat him! (No I don't know how...)