1hr Speed - How long to get from 18mph to 22mph average?

dw300

I'm 33, ride 2 or 3 times per week, plus some rest/fat loss turbo sessions. Rides are usually a 1hr to 1hr 20m blast a couple of evenings per week, and a 2-3hr ride at the weekend. I'm 160lbs and about 5lbs from hitting 10% bf.

Any more info required just ask.

Is this a 1, 2 or 5 year plan, or longer?

jibberjim

Depends on how much aerodynamic advantages you can get, 24mph for an hour is pretty good for a pure road set up, if your current road set up is very un-aero then you can get a long way with just those changes, if you're already in an aerodynamic position with deep section wheels etc. then it's a bit different.

How long it would take will entirely depend on you and your training. 5 hours a week will likely not get you there at all.

dw300

Hmmm .. perhaps 24mph is a bit ambitious for a regular road set up. What would be a reasonable 1hr average to aim for before taking advantage of new equipment?

I'll probably add more hours when I begin to plateau, but for now I'm getting faster with 5.

Mike67

My first ever 25 on a regular road bike I just scraped 20mph.
A year later with similar training levels to yourself I was averaging just over 22mph. That was on the same course and same road bike but with added clip-on tri bars.
I did manage 23mph on the same set up but that was on a fast flat course so not really comparing like with like.

To get any faster than that I'd have to do some serious targetted training as the effort ramps up rapidly for every mph you gain. Then I may be able to justify buying specialist kit and bike etc etc.
I'm a bit older than you (OK quite a bit older ) so you may well be able to go faster with similar training levels etc.

Conversly I'm slower this year than last despite doing more training than previously. I'm doing more longer distance endurance type stuff though so have lost a bit of top end speed.

So yes, if you target your training for TTs in particular than I think you may well be able to get close given the right course and a good day (surprising how few of them there are in TT world )

Herbsman

I think you can buy tailwind generators from Ribble

If they are too expensive you could try interval training

By the way all the road races I've done have averaged about 24mph, even the ones that are only an hour long. If you can average 24mph, or even 22mph on your own you will crush the competition

okgo

Are you being serious? That's absolute nonsense Herbsman.

OfficerDigby

Just do time trials. And or chain gangs.

simples.

Quite (really) hard to average 22mph on typical cycle routes/traffic/give way etc etc.

Herbsman

okgo wrote:

Are you being serious? That's absolute nonsense Herbsman.

Why?

I don't think I've averaged faster than 19mph on my own

nmcgann

dw300 wrote:

Hmmm .. perhaps 24mph is a bit ambitious for a regular road set up. What would be a reasonable 1hr average to aim for before taking advantage of new equipment?

I'll probably add more hours when I begin to plateau, but for now I'm getting faster with 5.

Anywhere over 20mph average for an hour circuit on a standard road bike is a pretty decent effort. (in a flattish area)

dw300

Thanks for all the replies guys .. I picked the number after checking out what local guys were doing in races of about an hour.

I think I'll aim to be getting as close to 20mph (solo) as I can in the next year or so, and maybe look at some better equipment if I do.

okgo

Herbsman wrote:

okgo wrote:

Are you being serious? That's absolute nonsense Herbsman.

Why?

I don't think I've averaged faster than 19mph on my own

Hmmm, just because I think its unrealistic, I'd imagine the vast majority of people racing can average 20mph on their own over an hour, or two, or three (terrain depending) and they certainly won't dominate races.

poynedexter

dw300 wrote:

I'm 33, ride 2 or 3 times per week, plus some rest/fat loss turbo sessions. Rides are usually a 1hr to 1hr 20m blast a couple of evenings per week, and a 2-3hr ride at the weekend. I'm 160lbs and about 5lbs from hitting 10% bf.

Any more info required just ask.

Is this a 1, 2 or 5 year plan, or longer?

how long have u been cycling like this? if you fancy a spin out at the weekend you're more than welcome to join a couple of us, probably sun morn early. we are no 22mph men btw

Herbsman

okgo wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

okgo wrote:

Are you being serious? That's absolute nonsense Herbsman.

Why?

I don't think I've averaged faster than 19mph on my own

Hmmm, just because I think its unrealistic, I'd imagine the vast majority of people racing can average 20mph on their own over an hour, or two, or three (terrain depending) and they certainly won't dominate races.

Don't get me wrong, I could if I never had to stop and wait at junctions, traffic lights etc or climb any hills. But no matter how hard I've ridden during training it's always under 20mph on the computer when I get back - usually 16mph in fact!

springtide9

Herbsman wrote:

okgo wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

okgo wrote:

Are you being serious? That's absolute nonsense Herbsman.

Why?

I don't think I've averaged faster than 19mph on my own

Hmmm, just because I think its unrealistic, I'd imagine the vast majority of people racing can average 20mph on their own over an hour, or two, or three (terrain depending) and they certainly won't dominate races.

Don't get me wrong, I could if I never had to stop and wait at junctions, traffic lights etc or climb any hills. But no matter how hard I've ridden during training it's always under 20mph on the computer when I get back - usually 16mph in fact!

It does depend a lot on traffic and terrain. If you really have heavy traffic for the beginning and/or end of your run then it might be worth considering cutting these sections out of your data if you are trying to compare.

It could be argued this is fudging your data, but at the end of the day the data is supposed to be meaningful to you - you might have on one run pushed hard for 10 miles but got stuck for 10 mins in heavy traffic; but on another run taking it easy but got through the traffic with little hold up (and record a faster ave speed). I personally think your data should reflect your efforts.
If you use Strava... you can just create a private segment for the main part of the ride (and delete it afterwards if required)

thegibdog

Bag of a fag packet calculations, for 18mph you could be looking at about a 140 watt average. With all else being equal for 22mph you'd need to average about 240w and for 24mph about 300w.* So quite a large increase in power would be needed, although obviosuly gains can be had elsewhere too.

*These are very rough calculations, not much writing space on the back of fag packets these days!

derbygrimpeur

Herbsman wrote:

okgo wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

okgo wrote:

Are you being serious? That's absolute nonsense Herbsman.

Why?

I don't think I've averaged faster than 19mph on my own

Hmmm, just because I think its unrealistic, I'd imagine the vast majority of people racing can average 20mph on their own over an hour, or two, or three (terrain depending) and they certainly won't dominate races.

Don't get me wrong, I could if I never had to stop and wait at junctions, traffic lights etc or climb any hills. But no matter how hard I've ridden during training it's always under 20mph on the computer when I get back - usually 16mph in fact!

I can average 22mph on training rides but I can't "crush" opposition in a 3/4 road race. The simple fact remains that a group can still ride quicker than a solo rider in most situations.

Mike67

derbygrimpeur wrote:

I can average 22mph on training rides but I can't "crush" opposition in a 3/4 road race. The simple fact remains that a group can still ride quicker than a solo rider in most situations.

Solo training, crit races and TTs are all very different animals.

I certainly cannot crush the opposition in a race either though can average 23mph in a solo 25TT (which is nothing stunning btw).
In fact in this race (my first)
http://app.strava.com/rides/5070570
You can see where I was dropped from the pack when my average goes down from mid 24mph to around 22mph so being in the pack was adding around 2.5mph.

I have never averaged over 20mph on a training ride (too many hills round here ), but have maintained low 20s for long flattish sections in the middle of rides.
It's also a matter of how much you're prepared to hurt...I like to enjoy my training rides if poss. and suffer in races and TTs when I have no choice

okgo

I wouldn't worry about it, I've done over 20mph solo hilly rides and I don't crush the competition either, its just an error on the part of Herbsman I think, in the nicest possible way

Herbsman

okgo wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it, I've done over 20mph solo hilly rides and I don't crush the competition either, its just an error on the part of Herbsman I think, in the nicest possible way

right, that's it :evil:

acidstrato

I want to enter these races where if you can av 22mph for an hour you will crush the opposition

last castle combe crit averaged 24mph alone and it was windy as fuck, a few weeks earlier it average 26mph.

jibberjim

I've done 24mph for 45miles took me 280 watts in a straight road setup including shallow wheels although the route (Kingston Worthing TT) had a light tailwind for the ride, (a year later I did 300 watts for just 23mph with a raging headwind all the way) I've never scored a point as a 3rd cat. 22mph for an hour is not that tough at all for me, but I can't do a thing in a race...

okgo

That's not because you're not strong enough though That's because you insist on heroics at all times!

nmcgann

thegibdog wrote:

Bag of a fag packet calculations, for 18mph you could be looking at about a 140 watt average. With all else being equal for 22mph you'd need to average about 240w and for 24mph about 300w.* So quite a large increase in power would be needed, although obviosuly gains can be had elsewhere too.

*These are very rough calculations, not much writing space on the back of fag packets these days!

This is massively terrain and aerodynamics-dependent though. My wednesday night 25mile loop takes me 260W+ to get over 20mph and 280W+ to get over 21mph. I don't think I'm physically capable of 22mph on that route on a road bike :?

Team4Luke

OP isn't very clear, is the session on a decent surface none stop loop, comparing against what other locals do, in a proper TT or on the same loop as OP ??
To the OP, you can not compare what your doing against what others are doing in a TT if that be the case.
The wind has a large part to play, training is about training not about what speeds you achieve although can be a useful guide over a long period.
A 20mph average even on a flat local ride is a pretty tough target, sounds easy, but maintaining that and above for an hour takes a lot of constant very hard effort, above that 20-22 can be achieved on lighter wind days, above that on a standard road bike where your fighting aero dynamics even moreso as your speed increases, then you would be looking at a 1st cat roadie level to achieve that.
If you can crack 20mph often on a road bike then likely you could go sub 60mins for a 25TT.
My training speeds were around 20-24mph on the road bike the higher ones for shorter efforts and I've got a couple of 20min tens to my credit.

dw300

poynedexter wrote:

how long have u been cycling like this? if you fancy a spin out at the weekend you're more than welcome to join a couple of us, probably sun morn early. we are no 22mph men btw

How long have I been training as above? Eh, about 5 weeks lol :oops:

We started doing longer distances last summer. Did the Bangor Coastal and Lap the Lough, so did a weekend and a midweek throughout the summer and autumn, but kinda didn't do as much as we intended thru the winter.

However we did the Bangor Coastal again this year and I took 23 minutes off compared to last year over 60mi/100km. I think we averaged 18.3mph or about 3:20:00, although i have to thank a lot of better rides for various tows along the way.

Where are you from poynedexter? I and the guy i ride with most are from the Dundonald area. We're both in reasonable shape, just haven't had years of riding to build up decent base power.

Here's the run we did yesterday .. http://app.strava.com/rides/12199415 .. are you on Strava?

dw300

thegibdog wrote:

Bag of a fag packet calculations, for 18mph you could be looking at about a 140 watt average. With all else being equal for 22mph you'd need to average about 240w and for 24mph about 300w.* So quite a large increase in power would be needed, although obviosuly gains can be had elsewhere too.

*These are very rough calculations, not much writing space on the back of fag packets these days!

I've not used a power meter, but if Strava's estimate will tend towards slightly more accuracy the longer the ride is, then I'd say my current average power for 2-3hr rides could be about 140W.

If I had to guess I'd probably be able to hold around 170W for an hour at the moment. But as I say, that all just estimates taken from long loops, so take with a pinch of salt.

dw300

Team4Luke wrote:

OP isn't very clear, is the session on a decent surface none stop loop, comparing against what other locals do, in a proper TT or on the same loop as OP ??
To the OP, you can not compare what your doing against what others are doing in a TT if that be the case.
The wind has a large part to play, training is about training not about what speeds you achieve although can be a useful guide over a long period.
A 20mph average even on a flat local ride is a pretty tough target, sounds easy, but maintaining that and above for an hour takes a lot of constant very hard effort, above that 20-22 can be achieved on lighter wind days, above that on a standard road bike where your fighting aero dynamics even moreso as your speed increases, then you would be looking at a 1st cat roadie level to achieve that.
If you can crack 20mph often on a road bike then likely you could go sub 60mins for a 25TT.
My training speeds were around 20-24mph on the road bike the higher ones for shorter efforts and I've got a couple of 20min tens to my credit.

I actually haven't planned out a 25TT route to test myself yet.

The area around me is rolling to hilly and if there is any flat it's coastal, so maybe more windy than in inland flat? I'm just comparing myself to the guys that are topping the Strava leaderboards in my area.

I wouldn't say i'm fast at the moment, but I feel there's definitely potential there while im still reasonably young!

RoadMeridaBen

You would be lucky to find a road in my are where you would be able to maintain a 22 average on a training ride.
My averages normally range from 18-20 without really pushing it, but I've yet to try any racing because my local crits have been cancelled :evil:

thegibdog

dw300 wrote:

thegibdog wrote:

Bag of a fag packet calculations, for 18mph you could be looking at about a 140 watt average. With all else being equal for 22mph you'd need to average about 240w and for 24mph about 300w.* So quite a large increase in power would be needed, although obviosuly gains can be had elsewhere too.

*These are very rough calculations, not much writing space on the back of fag packets these days!

I've not used a power meter, but if Strava's estimate will tend towards slightly more accuracy the longer the ride is, then I'd say my current average power for 2-3hr rides could be about 140W.

If I had to guess I'd probably be able to hold around 170W for an hour at the moment. But as I say, that all just estimates taken from long loops, so take with a pinch of salt.

Yeah, as nmcgann mentioned, the figures I gave would vary quite a lot depending on terrain, wind, aerodynamics etc. (they're based on a pan flat course with no wind with typical figures for a guy on a road bike). It was more to give an idea of how much more power you'd need to average 22 or 24mph in relation to the power needed to average 18mph - a lot!

dw300

thegibdog wrote:

dw300 wrote:

thegibdog wrote:

Bag of a fag packet calculations, for 18mph you could be looking at about a 140 watt average. With all else being equal for 22mph you'd need to average about 240w and for 24mph about 300w.* So quite a large increase in power would be needed, although obviosuly gains can be had elsewhere too.

*These are very rough calculations, not much writing space on the back of fag packets these days!

I've not used a power meter, but if Strava's estimate will tend towards slightly more accuracy the longer the ride is, then I'd say my current average power for 2-3hr rides could be about 140W.

If I had to guess I'd probably be able to hold around 170W for an hour at the moment. But as I say, that all just estimates taken from long loops, so take with a pinch of salt.

Yeah, as nmcgann mentioned, the figures I gave would vary quite a lot depending on terrain, wind, aerodynamics etc. (they're based on a pan flat course with no wind with typical figures for a guy on a road bike). It was more to give an idea of how much more power you'd need to average 22 or 24mph in relation to the power needed to average 18mph - a lot!

Ha, yeh I realise it's an exponential curve. Since I'm not putting out much power at the mo at least I have some room for improvement.

I guess I just need to get out and ride an hour TT and see how far I get. Is renting a power meter an option? Wouldn't you just need a rear wheel and a computer thrown onto your bike?

poynedexter

dw300 wrote:

poynedexter wrote:

how long have u been cycling like this? if you fancy a spin out at the weekend you're more than welcome to join a couple of us, probably sun morn early. we are no 22mph men btw

How long have I been training as above? Eh, about 5 weeks lol :oops:

We started doing longer distances last summer. Did the Bangor Coastal and Lap the Lough, so did a weekend and a midweek throughout the summer and autumn, but kinda didn't do as much as we intended thru the winter.

However we did the Bangor Coastal again this year and I took 23 minutes off compared to last year over 60mi/100km. I think we averaged 18.3mph or about 3:20:00, although i have to thank a lot of better rides for various tows along the way.

Where are you from poynedexter? I and the guy i ride with most are from the Dundonald area. We're both in reasonable shape, just haven't had years of riding to build up decent base power.

Here's the run we did yesterday .. http://app.strava.com/rides/12199415 .. are you on Strava?

i'm in millisle, but not on strava yet. did you ride motocross at all???