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  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    A contentious issue.

    Firstly,there are, Bauge the sprinter being the most prominent, but you're right in that it's not often you see a field in Europe that has black riders.

    People argue about it.

    My 2 cents is that cycle racing is't really part of any black culture, in the same way swimming isn't, so their cultures don't produce the athletes.

    Thanks Rick.

    So why no Chinese pro cyclists? It can hardly be said that cycling ain't part of their culture.

    I found this: http://bicycling.com/blogs/thisjustin/2 ... for-china/

    but then this: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/08/sport ... china.html

    The five-stage Tour of Beijing, which ends Sunday, is the first major attempt by professional cycling to establish itself in China. It is also the first attempt by the International Cycling Union to act as a race organizer as well as the sport’s governing body. That dual role almost crippled the race before it started and made it the most contentious event on this year’s calendar.

    It's not that I especially want them to join in; TBH I'm already getting somewhat sickened by their Olympic dominance and it's only day 4.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,879 Lives Here
    There's an enormous difference between using the bike to get around the place since it's cheap and convenient, and racing bikes across nations.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784

    Firstly,there are, Bauge the sprinter being the most prominent, but you're right in that it's not often you see a field in Europe that has black riders.

    And Reza on the road

    http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_ ... &current=0
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • knedlickyknedlicky Posts: 3,097
    There's an enormous difference between using the bike to get around the place since it's cheap and convenient, and racing bikes across nations.
    Your answer is more relevant to India than China - you could say considering its population India lags behind in all sports. I recently listened to a brief report about sport in India, and it seems that no importance is given to sport, rather the emphasis is academic - perhaps explains why the Indians are more up in the IT world than most other nations. Indian cricketers apparently come from Indian rich with time on their hands, like GB sportsmen a century ago.

    Anyway, wrt China and road racing, there are 7-8 professional ‘Continental’ Chinese teams, plus a couple of other teams from Hong Kong and Taiwan. But, like the 7-8 Australian-New Zealander ‘Continental’ teams, they stay in their own continent, so one never hears of them here. The theoretical European equivalents are teams like Endura (for which JTL rides), although one suspects the Chinese teams are perhaps still a level lower.

    And there is one Chineseman already riding in Europe, for Dutch team Argos-Shimano, Cheng Ji. He’s already done stuff like San Remo and LBL, and is in their team for this year’s Vuelta.

    As for India - road racing might not exist at all, but I understand that, at least at an amateur level, the mountain-bike scene is pretty active and well-developed for a Third-World country.
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Daily Ride: Knee

    Sometimes on my daily (morning) ride*, my right knee immediately hurts. I "ride through it" by favouring the left knee and letting the right knee be a "passenger" until about 1.5 - 2 miles, then the right knee pain shuts up and I can go uphill.

    Any (helpful) comments appreciated. Thanks.

    *5-8 miles straight out of bed. Back to have shower then go to work.
    **in the winter/snowing/hard rain, that's all on the trainer indoors instead.
  • I'n no physio but I'd say if it's straight out of bed that'll be why.

    Give a bit of a stretch and a warm up, even a couple of squats might help
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    OK here's a question that's been bothering me, with all the accusations of doping against Armstrong (And pretty much anyone who wins anything)

    How can he still be accused of doping if the rider has passed a test, are there substances that don't show up on the tests or are the tests not good enough, do they turn a blind eye?

    The same for the olympics, I assume they all have to give samples for testing but they're still accused of doping.
  • Same way you can be convicted/accused of murder without being seen with the knife in your hand
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,879 Lives Here
    Paul 8v wrote:
    OK here's a question that's been bothering me, with all the accusations of doping against Armstrong (And pretty much anyone who wins anything)

    How can he still be accused of doping if the rider has passed a test, are there substances that don't show up on the tests or are the tests not good enough, do they turn a blind eye?

    The same for the olympics, I assume they all have to give samples for testing but they're still accused of doping.

    What high road said.

    Also, the string of admissions we've seen from other cyclists and other athletes (Riis, Museuw, Marian Jones to name three) who never tested positive but admitted to doping suggests that passing the tests is not a particularly good indicator of who is doping and who isn't.

    You're right that all a fair and clean rider can do is compete as well as they can and continue to pass the tests, but that doesn't mean we can assume everyone who passes the tests are clean.

    Ultimately, if you take a more cynical point of view, you just have to take passing the dope tests as another arbitrary rule, like not taking a train to the finish line in the Tour, or not holding onto cars - whether you're taking stuff or not. You can run the risk to get an advantage (and judging my how many dopers pass tests, that risk is lower than you'd think, though the cost of failing can be very high), or play it conservative and not.

    But every fan ultimately has their own views, tolerances, and ideals about doping.

    Some only see doping on their screen when they watch racing, some can seperate the two entirely, some just bury their heads in the sand, others feel cheated and get put off.
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    So basically they aren't reliable tests and they just do it as a gamble. Seems a very big risk though I take it the stage winner every day is tested, the rest are random or are they all tested throughout the course of the race?
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Could the organisers not have done any better than Lesley Garrett, a second-rate opera singer at the best of times, and her hideous, look-at-me, budget-last-night of the proms caterwauling?

    Wiggins_-Look_532_1552951a.jpg

    Glad someone else noticed this, that was absolutely awful!
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,879 Lives Here
    Paul 8v wrote:
    So basically they aren't reliable tests and they just do it as a gamble. Seems a very big risk though I take it the stage winner every day is tested, the rest are random or are they all tested throughout the course of the race?

    It's not so much reliability as inability to test for certain things.

    If you know that there are no tests for a drug which massively improves your performance (like EPO during the '90s), there's very little risk.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    If you fail a test you're either unlucky or stupid.

    The other thing with drug testing is there isn't a big machine that sounds a horn and flashes a big read "EPO" sign for example. There is a degree of interpreting results.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Thanks guys, understand it a bit better now!
  • I lost interest in cycling a few years ago after getting dropped on several winter clubs runs (having only just got into the sport). But in the last few weeks I have caught a bit of the Vuelta and ToB on ITV4, been reading a Merckx book on holiday and watched the movie La Course en Tete. So now I have some questions.

    In the old Merckx footage it is common to see the riders stopped at the road side taking a leak or even dashing out of a cafe after perhaps having had a 'sit down'. This doesn't appear to happen anymore. Is this because the riders food and liquid in take is more carefully controlled these days? After my experience of cycling, it was hard enough keeping up without stopping for a rest break!

    The other thing that I have noticed comparing the recent race coverage and the Merckx era stuff, it all feels so much more controlled by people not on bicycles today. In fact, it feels almost Formula1 like and to me, I don't personally consider F1 a sport - more a science and business management contest. Is this a fair interpretation? Is race radio taking a lot of the skill of reading the race away from riders and removing a lot of the spontaneity and unpredictability from road racing?
  • harkins wrote:
    I lost interest in cycling a few years ago after getting dropped on several winter clubs runs (having only just got into the sport). But in the last few weeks I have caught a bit of the Vuelta and ToB on ITV4, been reading a Merckx book on holiday and watched the movie La Course en Tete. So now I have some questions.

    In the old Merckx footage it is common to see the riders stopped at the road side taking a leak or even dashing out of a cafe after perhaps having had a 'sit down'. This doesn't appear to happen anymore. Is this because the riders food and liquid in take is more carefully controlled these days? After my experience of cycling, it was hard enough keeping up without stopping for a rest break!

    The other thing that I have noticed comparing the recent race coverage and the Merckx era stuff, it all feels so much more controlled by people not on bicycles today. In fact, it feels almost Formula1 like and to me, I don't personally consider F1 a sport - more a science and business management contest. Is this a fair interpretation? Is race radio taking a lot of the skill of reading the race away from riders and removing a lot of the spontaneity and unpredictability from road racing?


    Riders still need to take a leak. Usually they'll stop as a group with a truce called. Or race referees will turn a blind eye to riders drafting team cars to get back on.


    Back in the day domestiques would have stopped at cafes and bars along the route and grabbed what they could in drink and food. Presumably there were no team cars.
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • harkins wrote:
    I lost interest in cycling a few years ago after getting dropped on several winter clubs runs (having only just got into the sport). But in the last few weeks I have caught a bit of the Vuelta and ToB on ITV4, been reading a Merckx book on holiday and watched the movie La Course en Tete. So now I have some questions.

    In the old Merckx footage it is common to see the riders stopped at the road side taking a leak or even dashing out of a cafe after perhaps having had a 'sit down'. This doesn't appear to happen anymore. Is this because the riders food and liquid in take is more carefully controlled these days? After my experience of cycling, it was hard enough keeping up without stopping for a rest break!

    The other thing that I have noticed comparing the recent race coverage and the Merckx era stuff, it all feels so much more controlled by people not on bicycles today. In fact, it feels almost Formula1 like and to me, I don't personally consider F1 a sport - more a science and business management contest. Is this a fair interpretation? Is race radio taking a lot of the skill of reading the race away from riders and removing a lot of the spontaneity and unpredictability from road racing?

    The race radio debate, and the power meter debate, is an open can of worms. There are a few threads on both already...
    viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12866589&p=17745691&hilit=radio#p17745691
    viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12676237&p=15896713&hilit=radio#p15896713
    viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12756760&p=16755964&hilit=radio#p16755964
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Ok so after looking at the wikipedia entry for the uci pro tour series, is their a jersey the winner wears or something like the world champion or is it some sort of prize?
  • Paul 8v wrote:
    Ok so after looking at the wikipedia entry for the uci pro tour series, is their a jersey the winner wears or something like the world champion or is it some sort of prize?


    No, they just get a dodgy perspex trophy a la Phil Gil last year - and with the dubious honour of being handed it by Fat Pat

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/10/ ... rum_196540
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    That is a dodgy perspex trophy. Not as dodgy as that earing though...
  • If you're new to cycling and find yourself stood near Rick, please use what knowledge you have to teach him something about the sport.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,278
    534506_552353188114822_1333095757_n.jpg
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    That explains it pretty well!
  • Hello all.

    New to TDF following and luckily my job has provided an amazing opportunity to cover the TDF photographically. Where can I get detailed route information? I have the general route overlaid the whole of France, but one where it tells me which road it actually travels along.

    I ask because I have to break away from the tour from time to time to document other subjects, such as vineyards, luxury hotels, restaurant etc etc. I am submitting my proposal soon and the more details I can give to the Editor-in-Chief the better.

    Any links and help greatly appreciated.

    Piers.
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
  • FJSFJS Posts: 4,820
    Hello all.

    New to TDF following and luckily my job has provided an amazing opportunity to cover the TDF photographically. Where can I get detailed route information? I have the general route overlaid the whole of France, but one where it tells me which road it actually travels along.

    I ask because I have to break away from the tour from time to time to document other subjects, such as vineyards, luxury hotels, restaurant etc etc. I am submitting my proposal soon and the more details I can give to the Editor-in-Chief the better.

    Any links and help greatly appreciated.

    Piers.
    Congratulations on getting that assignment! The route details, including all road numbers, junctions, etc, is normally not published until May I think. That being said, for the mountain stages and the Corsican stages www.letour.fr has already published the elevation profiles of the route, which include mountain passes and towns/villages the route passes through. With a map you should be able to find out the precise route for those stages. For the other stages you can work out a rough possible route using the general route map, but it's a bit less precise...
  • jerry3571jerry3571 Posts: 1,532
    There used to be a UCI Pro Tour Jersey for the best overall rider some years ago; Mr Valverde was caught wearing one; not the only thing he was caught for ;)

    I think that's Boonen's leg he seems to be touching; the Spaniard is scandalous!! :twisted:
    4_valverde_bettini_protour_world_champion.jpg?itok=_7WvOfbf
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein

    "You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
    -Jacques Anquetil
  • jerry3571jerry3571 Posts: 1,532
    Mr Dan Lloyd reviews today's stage-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZh6m-UgMRw
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein

    "You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
    -Jacques Anquetil
  • takethehighroadtakethehighroad Posts: 5,860
    jerry3571 wrote:
    There used to be a UCI Pro Tour Jersey for the best overall rider some years ago; Mr Valverde was caught wearing one; not the only thing he was caught for ;)

    I think that's Boonen's leg he seems to be touching; the Spaniard is scandalous!! :twisted:
    4_valverde_bettini_protour_world_champion.jpg?itok=_7WvOfbf

    Is that Boonen? I thought Bettini was more fond of wearing white shorts with his WC jerseys.

    Although I'm not sure Piti wore the PT jersey in 07/08, so maybe it is.
  • kela66kela66 Posts: 32
    Hope this is the right place for this question, why when there is a crash do some riders just sit there? the coverage on ITV last night showed a rider sitting in the road and when the doctor came he just shuffled over a bit.
    I appreciate some may be hurt and for them its the end of the race ie coller bone etc, but we regularly see riders sitting for quite a bit then jumping back on a bike and drafting back into the peleton?
    a little rest waiting for a rideable bike?, shorts ripped and bits on show? waiting for the pain to subside?

    thanks
    Kela
    Drop bars n beat's
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