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  • Very new to this but I hope you will indulge me in some probably very stupid questions:
    1. I saw in previous stages that when riders empty their water bottles in the peloton they tend to throw them to the side of the road. I noticed (perhaps mistakenly) that they would target areas near to where spectators were standing. Is this to give them a little souvenir of the race as opposed to throwing into an empty field? 2. When Cadel suffered tackgate today he waited for a rider to exchange a rear wheel, would it not have been better (faster, more to the point) to jump on that other rider's bike? I understand that may be comical if they were different heights but if not I guess I am asking is there such a difference between set-ups? 3. There seems to be an assumption that Sky (containing the yellow jersey) dominate the pace of the overall race. Why don't we see BMC or Liquigas challenge that dominance more by breaking away as a unit or as two / three teams together - seems a little easy for Sky at the moment (I am referencing the point today where BMC put their foot down to get Evans back into main group - why couldn't they do that from the off?).
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Very new to this but I hope you will indulge me in some probably very stupid questions:
    1. I saw in previous stages that when riders empty their water bottles in the peloton they tend to throw them to the side of the road. I noticed (perhaps mistakenly) that they would target areas near to where spectators were standing. Is this to give them a little souvenir of the race as opposed to throwing into an empty field? 2. When Cadel suffered tackgate today he waited for a rider to exchange a rear wheel, would it not have been better (faster, more to the point) to jump on that other rider's bike? I understand that may be comical if they were different heights but if not I guess I am asking is there such a difference between set-ups? 3. There seems to be an assumption that Sky (containing the yellow jersey) dominate the pace of the overall race. Why don't we see BMC or Liquigas challenge that dominance more by breaking away as a unit or as two / three teams together - seems a little easy for Sky at the moment (I am referencing the point today where BMC put their foot down to get Evans back into main group - why couldn't they do that from the off?).


    I'll have a go at this.

    1. They throw their empty bottles away from the road, so that they don't roll into other riders' wheels and cause a crash. Should they land near spectators, is irrelevant to them. However, some spectators do pick them up as souvenirs.

    2. The BMC rider who first appeared after Cadel's puncture, also had a puncture.

    3. Why should BMC or Liquigas do all the work at the front of the peleton when Sky are doing it? Neither team is going to overtake Wiggins/Sky in the GC by the look of it right now, so they might as well ride behind them and gain protection from the wind, save energy, stay safe at the front etc.

    It's always seemed to me that one of the down-sides of having a man in yellow, is that that team then has to do most of the work at the front, to protect him.
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    My query: Very THIN. Scary THIN. Take one look at those arms/wrists/ankles and they'll snap. Too thin?

    Frank+Schleck+Le+Tour+de+France+2012+Stage+eESdffo1gRFl.jpg

    562-PIC296068842.jpg

    It reminds me of Rasmussen. Maybe look away................
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    15fcb379_rasmussen.jpeg
  • Thanks for your answers Lichtblick, I didn't realise The rider after Cadel (Hincapie?) had a puncture too. Your answer 3. makes sense too. Suppose it is frustration no-one has attacked Sky in numbers yet...
  • essjaydeeessjaydee Posts: 917
    Alan A wrote:
    From the moment the flag drops at the start of the race the teams of the main protagonists keep an eye on who is attempting to form the break and whether they will allow these riders to get into the day's break. Often several breaks will form early on but be chased back by the peloton because 1 or 2 of the riders are deemed too dangerous for the GC contenders (or white or polka) to allow them out of their sights.

    During each stage time gap updates of the break are given by the chalk board guy on the yellow mavic motorbike as well as through race radio.

    With today's break Sky & BMC would have judged that those making the break were of no threat to GC.

    A great example of the peloton getting it wrong is last year when Vockler won yellow after being allowed into the break (the day of Johhny H getting up ended into a barbed wire fence). No-one expected the break to gain so much time, let alone keep that time and TV to then be good enough to hold onto yellow until almost Paris.

    EDIT: Today the likelihood is that th break would have been successful even if the tacks incident had not occurred. Sky etc had no reason to chase it down since everyone involved was/is too far down the GC to waste energy on.

    Thanks :)
    Had seen the chalk boards shown to the breakaways.

    I'm sure the Team SKY brought 3000 gatorade bottles for the tour, so guess if a few get thrown away, they won't be too bothered, and good publicity for Gatorade :|
  • jonny_trousersjonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    Is every single frame custom built for every single rider? I ask because magazines will review pro level bikes very differently, yet it seems to make no difference whatsoever to the men who ride them, as their performance rarely changes when they swap teams or their teams change sponsor.
  • CrozzaCrozza Posts: 991
    I've heard recently about post-Tour criteriums (kermesse? sp?) and how the result is often "arranged"

    what's that all about then?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,878 Lives Here
    Crozza wrote:
    I've heard recently about post-Tour criteriums (kermesse? sp?) and how the result is often "arranged"

    what's that all about then?

    People pay to see them, so it's not like a road race.


    They ride around a roughly 1.5km circuit so the fans get to see them a lot.

    Obviously fans want to see the heroes they've just seen in the TdF, so those guys who did well or made a name can command more cash - riders who win jersies often compete in them.

    To make everyone leave happy, they make sure a popular winner is picked. Sometimes it's the local guy who had a good TOur. Other times it's the Tour winner, or a big name.

    Doesn't always happen, but it's good practice.
  • CrozzaCrozza Posts: 991
    but it's good practice.

    thanks, but how is that "good practice"?

    if I had paid to see a race, I wouldn't just want to watch a procession or exhibition

    wouldn't the young guns in the race also fancy the chance of taking a big scalp?
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Crozza wrote:
    but it's good practice.

    thanks, but how is that "good practice"?

    if I had paid to see a race, I wouldn't just want to watch a procession or exhibition

    wouldn't the young guns in the race also fancy the chance of taking a big scalp?

    You're not paying to see a race, you're paying for the party and the music and entrance in to the beer tent.

    If you wanted to see a race, you'd have gone to see the Tour.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,878 Lives Here
    Exactly.

    You're paying to see your cycling heroes in cycling action, not for racing :).

    There's lots of beer and autographs and fun afterwards too.
  • shinsplintshinsplint Posts: 563
    Nutrition question... anyone know what those round cake-like things are that seem popular amongst the riders?
  • alan_aalan_a Posts: 1,377
    Madeleines?

    madeleines2.jpg

    Dr Allen Lim's Rice Cakes?

    AllensRiceCakes.jpg
  • shinsplintshinsplint Posts: 563
    Cheers Alan,

    They look more like the madeleine, but in a round form without the chocolate. Almost like a donut but smaller. They've been very popular in the tour this year.
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Question: Team Leader, Team Captain. Why are there two, what's the difference? Why isn't the Team Leader the Captain; why isn't the Captain the Leader? :?:

    Another question: What happens if someone gets off his bike (say, on a steep mountain) and pushes it for a bit, then gets back on? Does it actually say anywhere that riders must stay on the bike at all times?

    Thanks
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,878 Lives Here
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Question: Team Leader, Team Captain. Why are there two, what's the difference? Why isn't the Team Leader the Captain; why isn't the Captain the Leader? :?:

    Another question: What happens if someone gets off his bike (say, on a steep mountain) and pushes it for a bit, then gets back on? Does it actually say anywhere that riders must stay on the bike at all times?

    Thanks

    Team leader: usually strongest rider, often the GC rider for the team.

    Team captain: an experienced rider who takes charge on the road.

    Eg. David Millar was/is the 'road captain' of the GB worlds team, despite that Cavendish was/is obviously the 'leader'.

    Question 2: you can travel however you want as long as it's under your own steam and you have a (legal) bike with you.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    1. Team leader is the best rider in the team, the one in the best position to win races. Team captain, or road captain, is generally an older rider with lots of experience, someone who makes on-the-road decisions about tactics (less important in the era of radios). Someone like David Millar is often described as a road captain.

    2. You have to finish the race with your bike, but you don't have to be riding it. Often when there's a crash in the final kilometre, you see riders carrying their bike over the line (see here: http://youtu.be/5kV0t-qcxmw?t=1m30s). Also on extremely steep hills, like the Koppenberg in the Tour of Flanders, you see riders dismounting and running with their bike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g00haedK7Bk).

    (Or what Rick said).
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Thank you both.

    So, is the Captain the boss, asitwere?

    Have now watched the Utube clip: interesting. I thought you were going to say that they have to stay on the bike until within, say, 3km of the finish - because I've never seen or heard of anyone getting off and pushing at the TdF.
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    edited July 2012
    .............
  • jonny_trousersjonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    I've heard it said that there is no aerodynamic advantage to drafting on climbs. Is this true, and if so, why is it seen as harder to pace for your team than to ride within it?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,878 Lives Here
    I've heard it said that there is no aerodynamic advantage to drafting on climbs. Is this true, and if so, why is it seen as harder to pace for your team than to ride within it?

    There is, it's just a lot smaller. They easily do 15-20km up some of these mountains.

    The advantage is also psychological.
  • jae-sojae-so Posts: 85
    Chris Froome is 2nd in the GC but not winning the White jersey competition, why?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,878 Lives Here
    Too old.
  • jae-sojae-so Posts: 85
    Too old.

    I thought he wore it for a while, in this tour, must be confusing it with the polka dot jersey.

    Right next question, the green jersey, are the points awarded for the short mile sprints depending on the time?
  • alan_aalan_a Posts: 1,377
    Points are awarded at the internediate sprint points and end of designated stages dependant on riders order as they cross the line. Nothing to do with time taken.
  • steve1613steve1613 Posts: 1
    Where do the riders and support staff stay during the tour? Do they have buses to sleep on? Do the teams have their own cooks for meals? How many support staff and vehicles are each team allowed to have on the tour?
  • alan_aalan_a Posts: 1,377
    steve1613 wrote:
    Where do the riders and support staff stay during the tour? Do they have buses to sleep on? Do the teams have their own cooks for meals? How many support staff and vehicles are each team allowed to have on the tour?

    They sleep in hotels local to the start / finish town. Sometimes they are luxurious, sometimes they are Campaniles or similar. Many riders use their own pillows and take their own mattresses. Often you get two or three teams using the same hotel.

    Teams have their own cooks who take over the hotel kitchen or better still do what Saxo Bank do http://dailystews.wordpress.com/2012/06 ... ank-tdf12/

    There is no limit to the number of staff or vehicles that each team has. Most team vehicles / staff use alternative routes (typically N routes or toll roads) other than the race route to get from start to finish or even the feed zone.
  • ms_treems_tree Posts: 1,405
    Thanks for that Alan A. I like these sort of articles.
    'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
    Neil Gaiman
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Time trial: you can't be time-cut in a time trial, surely?

    (I suppose the answer's going to be yes, to prevent the exhausted rubbish-time-triallers from dawdling along on Saturday?)
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,878 Lives Here
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Time trial: you can't be time-cut in a time trial, surely?

    (I suppose the answer's going to be yes, to prevent the exhausted rubbish-time-triallers from dawdling along on Saturday?)


    Yup.

    It's quite strict (within reason) too, so everyone has to put in a fair old effort.
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