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  • CrozzaCrozza Posts: 991
    Was going to ask whether the yellow helmets for leading team were new this year, but I see this has been covered elsewhere (yes they are, and they look atrocious! hopefully canned for next year)

    I read some comments after the prologue that it was a good result for Wiggins because he finished high up but not in yellow, which meant RSNT (and not Sky) would "have" to do all the work to defend the jersey. Setting aside Cancellara's desire to keep the maillot jaune, presumably the only compulsion for a team to work to maintain the yellow jersey is out of respect for it? I mean, surely if Wiggins had ended up in yellow, Sky could have let it go (not too obviously perhaps)?
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Crozza wrote:
    Was going to ask whether the yellow helmets for leading team were new this year, but I see this has been covered elsewhere (yes they are, and they look atrocious! hopefully canned for next year)

    I read some comments after the prologue that it was a good result for Wiggins because he finished high up but not in yellow, which meant RSNT (and not Sky) would "have" to do all the work to defend the jersey. Setting aside Cancellara's desire to keep the maillot jaune, presumably the only compulsion for a team to work to maintain the yellow jersey is out of respect for it? I mean, surely if Wiggins had ended up in yellow, Sky could have let it go (not too obviously perhaps)?

    Yeah it's a legitimate tactic to give the jersey away, but it's easier said than done when you have 6 flat days in a row. Even if Sky chose not to ride, there'd still be other teams trying to engineer a bunch sprint, with the result being that Brad would still have to do podium presentations / press conferences / extra dope tests and everything else that comes with yellow. It's just better all round that he doesn't have it yet.

    Giving away the jersey does happen, though. The one that springs to mind is Voeckler in 2004: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/200 ... lts/stage5
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    When a stage ends at the top of a mountain such as L'Alpe d'Huez or Mont Ventoux, how do all the riders get back down again? I can't imagine all 20 team busses going up there to fetch the riders. Please don't tell me they have to cycle down.

    Also, when they have to move on to the next stage-start, do they immediately go there in the bus, completely knackered, hungry, thirsty, longing for a shower?

    After a stage, when they get back to their hotel, what happens next? I'm under the impression that they have two or three soigneurs per team, so how do they all get their massages and eat and relax and whatever else they need to do, all at once?

    Why have we heard little to nothing about Frank Schleck so far this year?

    Please be nice. I am very keen on cycling and having lost my biking-buddy last autumn I now have no-one to discuss this year's Tour with as my OH is not interested in the sport or the Tour. Thanks.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,877
    Lichtblick wrote:
    When a stage ends at the top of a mountain such as L'Alpe d'Huez or Mont Ventoux, how do all the riders get back down again? I can't imagine all 20 team busses going up there to fetch the riders. Please don't tell me they have to cycle down.
    In general the mountain tops they use are chosen because they can cope with the buses and everything else. They're generally ski resorts. Sometimes though the buses have to park a little bit back down the slope (no more than a mile), so you'll see riders riding back down. For those needed for the press conference - stage winner, yellow jersey, maybe another - the ASO usually give them a lift in their helicopter.
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Also, when they have to move on to the next stage-start, do they immediately go there in the bus, completely knackered, hungry, thirsty, longing for a shower?
    They have food, drink and a shower on the bus, so they use those. There the team hotel is varies greatly. It may be near the finish, it may be near the next day's start, or it may be not particularly close to either.
    Lichtblick wrote:
    After a stage, when they get back to their hotel, what happens next? I'm under the impression that they have two or three soigneurs per team, so how do they all get their massages and eat and relax and whatever else they need to do, all at once?
    They don't do it all at once. Team leaders get their massage first, then everyone after that. Some teams will wait to eat together, others won't
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Why have we heard little to nothing about Frank Schleck so far this year?
    He's only really any good in the big mountains, so unless he crashes, you won't see him until then (Saturday).
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 13,659
    Explain this rule about crashing in the last 3km

    For talk sake, 150 riders are together in the run in. They get to the 3km mark and theres a crash. 100 riders are caught behind or are involved in the crash. 50 cross the line in a bunch.

    Does this mean that all 150 riders are given the same time as the winner?
    "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE?"
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 44,164 Lives Here
    Yes.

    If in a normal finish a crash holds you up you are given the time of the group you are in before the crash.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 13,659
    Yes.

    If in a normal finish a crash holds you up you are given the time of the group you are in before the crash.

    Thats what I thought.

    Back to my example

    Wiggins is in the 100 riders behind the crash

    Evans (cos BMC know what they're doing) is in the 50 riders ahead of the crash. With 1km Cancellara rips off the front. Evans jumps on his wheel. They work together and cross the line 10 seconds ahead of the other 48.

    What time does Wiggins get?

    What if there are multiple gaps in the 50 riders? How is that sorted?
    "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE?"
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Thank you RIchN95.

    When two teams are are the same hotel, does it cause problems? Two lots of soigneurs running about checking rooms, dumping bags in rooms, demanding feed for the riders and all the entourage including themselves.......as well as personality problems with two lots of Big Names in the same billet overnight?

    Also, I imagine each team has some sort of team-talk with the management each evening/next morning, so they'd have to be kept apart?

    Where do all the travelling media/press stay? In the same hotels? How about the crew who set up and take down all the road barriers on the moving Tour, where do they stay? I read somewhere that there are more than 3,000 vehicles on the road, moving through France. The logisitics alone would make (another) good book.
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    I've found this which might interest some people, written in 2005 but probably still valid:

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tenworst ... igneur.htm
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,877
    Yes.

    If in a normal finish a crash holds you up you are given the time of the group you are in before the crash.

    Thats what I thought.

    Back to my example

    Wiggins is in the 100 riders behind the crash

    Evans (cos BMC know what they're doing) is in the 50 riders ahead of the crash. With 1km Cancellara rips off the front. Evans jumps on his wheel. They work together and cross the line 10 seconds ahead of the other 48.

    What time does Wiggins get?

    What if there are multiple gaps in the 50 riders? How is that sorted?

    This happened in stage 1 last year. Gilbert won, Evans was +3s and the first group was at +6s. Some riders who had been in that group had got dropped on the final slope. Everyone who was in the group at the time of the crash got the time +6s.

    That stage also had the further complication that there had been an earlier crash outside the 3km and the riders in that crash then got held up further by the aftermath of later crash when they passed by, they but they still got their actual finishing time.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,877
    Lichtblick wrote:
    When two teams are are the same hotel, does it cause problems? Two lots of soigneurs running about checking rooms, dumping bags in rooms, demanding feed for the riders and all the entourage including themselves.......as well as personality problems with two lots of Big Names in the same billet overnight?

    Also, I imagine each team has some sort of team-talk with the management each evening/next morning, so they'd have to be kept apart?

    Where do all the travelling media/press stay? In the same hotels? How about the crew who set up and take down all the road barriers on the moving Tour, where do they stay? I read somewhere that there are more than 3,000 vehicles on the road, moving through France. The logisitics alone would make (another) good book.

    Point 1. All the teams have their own chefs and they'll take over the kitchen, so that's not a problem. Some of the staff will go on ahead during the day to sort things out. For example, several teams travel around France with their own mattresses, so the riders get the best sleep.

    Point 2: I think meetings tend to take place on the bus.

    Point 3: They stay all over the place. Every hotel within a fifty mile radius will be booked out. The journalists spend an awful lot of time in cars (Ned Boulting's book is a good read). For the barriers, there are two separate teams who alternate stage finishes, so they probably stay in the hotels others use the next day. The podium girls alternate between Cancellara and Sagan's rooms.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tomwardilltomwardill Posts: 21
    How is there still only 7 seconds between Cancellera and Wiggins when they've finished minutes apart? Do only some stages count towards the overall times?

    First time watching any form of race, this thread and others has been a great help in understanding what's going on!
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,877
    tomwardill wrote:
    How is there still only 7 seconds between Cancellera and Wiggins when they've finished minutes apart? Do only some stages count towards the overall times?
    All stages count towards the overall time, but Cancellara and Wiggins haven't really finished minutes apart.

    Two points to note here:
    1. Whenever a bunch of riders, whether 2 or 198, come in together, they all get the same time. This is to prevent even more chaos at the finish.
    2. If there is a crash in the last 3km, anyone effected by the crash is given the same time as the group that they were in at the time of the crash. This is because no-one wants to see the Tour decided by crashes. Generally, anyone who was in the group where the crash was is deemed to be effected by the crash (even if they probably weren't). This is why you saw Wiggins, who has been caught behind crashes in the last two days, sauntering in and still getting the same time as Cancellara.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    RichN95 wrote:
    Lichtblick wrote:
    When two teams are are the same hotel, does it cause problems? Two lots of soigneurs running about checking rooms, dumping bags in rooms, demanding feed for the riders and all the entourage including themselves.......as well as personality problems with two lots of Big Names in the same billet overnight?

    Also, I imagine each team has some sort of team-talk with the management each evening/next morning, so they'd have to be kept apart?

    Where do all the travelling media/press stay? In the same hotels? How about the crew who set up and take down all the road barriers on the moving Tour, where do they stay? I read somewhere that there are more than 3,000 vehicles on the road, moving through France. The logisitics alone would make (another) good book.

    Point 1. All the teams have their own chefs and they'll take over the kitchen, so that's not a problem. Some of the staff will go on ahead during the day to sort things out. For example, several teams travel around France with their own mattresses, so the riders get the best sleep.

    Saxo Bank, and I guess some other teams, have their own catering truck where they prepare meals. The Saxo chef has her own blog here, with pictures:

    http://dailystews.wordpress.com/2012/06 ... ank-tdf12/

    They eat some seriously fancy stuff!
  • takethehighroadtakethehighroad Posts: 5,505
    Yes.

    If in a normal finish a crash holds you up you are given the time of the group you are in before the crash.

    Thats what I thought.

    Back to my example

    Wiggins is in the 100 riders behind the crash

    Evans (cos BMC know what they're doing) is in the 50 riders ahead of the crash. With 1km Cancellara rips off the front. Evans jumps on his wheel. They work together and cross the line 10 seconds ahead of the other 48.

    What time does Wiggins get?

    What if there are multiple gaps in the 50 riders? How is that sorted?

    With this, let's say Canc and Evans finish in 6 hours, and the rest take 6 hours 10 seconds.

    Wiggins would get 6 hours and 10 seconds added to his time.

    However there were numerous splits on the run in today, and everyone got the same time. However, I think it could have been argued they were all caused as a result of the crash.
    My Men 2019 - Mark Cavendish, Ben Swift, Fernando Gaviria, Alejandro Valverde, Edvald Boassen Hagen, Zdenek Stybar, Vincenzo Nibali, Geraint Thomas.
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Point 1. All the teams have their own chefs and they'll take over the kitchen, so that's not a problem.

    But if there are two teams in one hotel?

    It looks as if any hotel booked by a Tour team is unavailable to ordinary guests, then?

    The food pictures on that blog, only look like enough food for one rider. Especially someone really well built like today's stage winner (compared to other whippet-thin riders).

    Thank you for all the information, I appreciate the time taken to respond.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,877
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Point 1. All the teams have their own chefs and they'll take over the kitchen, so that's not a problem.

    But if there are two teams in one hotel?

    Half the kitchen each. Sort of like Masterchef. They usually share, so they all know the drill.
    Here's a video about the Tour chefs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpImRgIThjo&feature=plcp
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tomwardilltomwardill Posts: 21
    RichN95 wrote:
    << Useful explanation here >>


    Aha, that explains that. Thanks!
  • Jonny_TrousersJonny_Trousers Posts: 3,588
    Do most teams who are in with a shout of having the race leader carry blingy yellow versions of their gear just-in-case? Cadel had a yellow frame for a while last year and I have a vague memory that Tommy Voeckler did too. If so, what happens to all the unused stuff? eBay?
  • ms_treems_tree Posts: 1,405
    There was an interesting segment on Eurosport the other day with the Sky nutritionist showing the food and drink they use. Both made food such as rice cake and gels and bars. Although I did wonder when he made roll with cheese and banana why he didn't mash the banana. I thought it might make the roll smaller. (From my yoof mashed banana with top-of-the-milk and soft brown sugar. Yum).
    'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,356
    Do most teams who are in with a shout of having the race leader carry blingy yellow versions of their gear just-in-case? Cadel had a yellow frame for a while last year and I have a vague memory that Tommy Voeckler did too. If so, what happens to all the unused stuff? eBay?

    Some do, some don't - I can't remember exactly who it was, but it was someone with a very genuine shot at yellow in the first week but they would nt let the team bring (or I think even make) a yellow bike for them so they did nt get complacent.

    Last Year when Tommy Voeckler got into yellow, Colnago made up a yellow frame overnight for him! Obviously it's quite a big deal for the bike manufacturer.

    Most of the bikes belong to the team rather than the rider, so they all go back to the manufacturer or get given away in competiotions or auctioned for charity or the like...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Stripes on jersey sleeves. Can anyone explain why some riders have striped sleeve edges?

    Wiggins without striped 'cuffs'

    Bradley-Wiggins-006.jpg

    Wiggins with striped 'cuffs'

    Bradley+Wiggins+Le+Tour+de+France+2012+Stage+T7scMwJERB_l.jpg

    Some other riders have these stripes too. Does it signify team leader?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 44,164 Lives Here
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Stripes on jersey sleeves. Can anyone explain why some riders have striped sleeve edges?

    Wiggins without striped 'cuffs'

    Bradley-Wiggins-006.jpg

    Wiggins with striped 'cuffs'

    Bradley+Wiggins+Le+Tour+de+France+2012+Stage+T7scMwJERB_l.jpg

    Some other riders have these stripes too. Does it signify team leader?

    The stripes are there to signify that Wiggins was once British national champion.

    The first picture must have been before he was national champion (or they forgot to put it on)./

    Depending on the flag, depends on the colours.

    Take Hincape, former US national champion.

    george-hincapie-stage14-2009-tdf.jpg

    Ex World champions get rainbow sleeve ends.

    TomBoonenDSC_0201-vi.jpg
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,356
    Now how did I know you post a Pic of Tommeke Rick! ;)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Thank you Rick. One of the many amazing things about the TdF is that I learn something new every year.

    Here's Hincapie at this year's Tour:

    2012_tour_de_france_stage1_george_hincapie_bmc1a.jpg

    with USA flag sleeve ends.

    Supposing a rider was once national champion AND world champion, would they wear both sleeve ends?

    Why do team RadioShack all have one yellow sleeve end? Don't tell me it's something to do with LA. If so, it would be easy enough to cut all those sleeve ends off. :roll: No wonder poor ol' Frank looks so unhappy:

    SchleckfinishTDF6_712-019-632x421.jpg
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 44,164 Lives Here
    Worlds trumps nationals, so you just keep the rainbow.

    Frank is wearing the national jersey there I believe, so no need for the rings.
  • LichtblickLichtblick Posts: 1,434
    I was away and therefore missed it: did Cavendish ride the TT in normal Sky kit yesterday, not the rainbow, because Tony Martin is world TT champion?

    Thank you again for polite and helpful responses.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Yeah that's right, you can only wear the world / national championships kit in the discipline you won.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,877
    Lichtblick wrote:

    Why do team RadioShack all have one yellow sleeve end? Don't tell me it's something to do with LA. If so, it would be easy enough to cut all those sleeve ends off. :roll: No wonder poor ol' Frank looks so unhappy:

    It is to do with Armstrong - Livestrong are a team sponsor.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • CrozzaCrozza Posts: 991
    I have heard a few references to riders warming up/cooling down "on the rollers". Every time I see them they are on turbos, not rollers.

    Do they just refer to rollers out of habit, or to make them seem cooler than they are :wink:

    I have seen photos of Cav out training in his WC jersey. Will Wiggins have been training yesterday in the yellow jersey, or is that not cool?
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