USADA files doping charges against Lance

ddraver

I think Pat is Fecked - Hein vs Lance could be an interesting battle, both quite evenly matched in power and evil genius

Pat is the wormtail to Verburggen's Voldemort to use the first analogy that popped into my head. Not sure what that makes Larry though...

Spiny_Norman

Assuming for a moment that the UCI are corrupt, helped Lance to beat doping tests in exchange for some hefty bungs, and are now worried that this is all going to come out. (I strongly suspect all these are true, but they are assumptions at this point.) So assuming that:

Can anyone explain to me what Fat Pat's worried about here? The TdS positive is the potential smoking gun, but surely that's down to Verbruggen. I can't believe he wouldn't throw Hein under the bus if it would save his own hide, so is it just that he's become too complicit in covering it up since then? Is he worried that either he or the UCI will be overthrown and he'll lose his place on the gravytrain? Is it honour among thieves? Or is he just an idiot? (Answers of "all of the above" aren't big or clever, but may be quite funny.)

I get the feeling I'm missing some piece of the jigsaw.

rick_chasey

Spiny_Norman wrote:

Assuming for a moment that the UCI are corrupt, helped Lance to beat doping tests in exchange for some hefty bungs, and are now worried that this is all going to come out. (I strongly suspect all these are true, but they are assumptions at this point.) So assuming that:

Can anyone explain to me what Fat Pat's worried about here? The TdS positive is the potential smoking gun, but surely that's down to Verbruggen. I can't believe he wouldn't throw Hein under the bus if it would save his own hide, so is it just that he's become too complicit in covering it up since then? Is he worried that either he or the UCI will be overthrown and he'll lose his place on the gravytrain? Is it honour among thieves? Or is he just an idiot? (Answers of "all of the above" aren't big or clever, but may be quite funny.)

I get the feeling I'm missing some piece of the jigsaw.

*puts hypothetical /wire-ista hat on*

Hein's got dirt on Pat

It's easy to extrapolate way further than we know.

It does increasingly make me think the TdSuisse story has legs.

TheBigBean

I can't see Armstrong confessing at any point. My best guess
1. Lawfare, more lawfare and further lawfare
2. USADA win and handle case
3. Armstrong then says he won't defend himself at USADA (officially because it is a witch hunt, unofficially because of perjury resons)
4. Armstrong receives ban etc
5. He then spends the rest of his life moaning about the witch hunt, how he is innocent etc. Most fanboys still love him.

disgruntledgoat

Wasn't McQuaid the "chosen son" of Verbruggen, installed to continue his good work?

iainf72

The rumours (from people who tend to be reasonably well informed) is he does have a limited confession plan in place.

tailwindhome

iainf72 wrote:

The rumours (from people who tend to be reasonably well informed) is he does have a limited confession plan in place.

I hope it ends with an evil laugh.

Mwahahahahaha!

andrewjoseph

iainf72 wrote:

The rumours (from people who tend to be reasonably well informed) is he does have a limited confession plan in place.

Who, Pat, Lance, Heine?

iainf72

andrewjoseph wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

The rumours (from people who tend to be reasonably well informed) is he does have a limited confession plan in place.

Who, Pat, Lance, Heine?

Lance

Spiny_Norman

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Wasn't McQuaid the "chosen son" of Verbruggen, installed to continue his good work?

That's how sporting governing bodies usually seem to be run, but if that was all anyone could lay on him, wouldn't it be the safest course of action for Pat to suddenly "discover" some incriminating evidence, throw Hein and Lance to the wolves and sit back with an evil cackle?

As Rick suggests, it looks like someone's got some serious dirt on him (although that may be Lance rather than Hein), so Pat knows that if one falls, they all fall.

Of course, this is all hypothetical, based on the assumptions above.

timoid.

iainf72 wrote:

andrewjoseph wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

The rumours (from people who tend to be reasonably well informed) is he does have a limited confession plan in place.

Who, Pat, Lance, Heine?

Lance

How the heck would anyone know this? This sounds like more Raceradio BS.

rick_chasey

Timoid. wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

andrewjoseph wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

The rumours (from people who tend to be reasonably well informed) is he does have a limited confession plan in place.

Who, Pat, Lance, Heine?

Lance

How the heck would anyone know this? This sounds like more Raceradio BS.

Timoid's got the idea.

andrewjoseph

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12588 ... iming.aspx

Lots more from Landis it seems.

BillyMansell

Hi andrewjoseph, I wasn't having a pop at you but being the internet things can get lost in translation particularly with the lack of non-verbal cues.

Whilst you may say the chief exec's response is anecdotal it provides causal links as to why people took their own lives which is substantially more than the suggestion of death by fallen idol. Someone may believe there is a link but that's for them to prove rather than just imply.

I also ought to say that chief exec oversees more than just the mental health and LD services. Since the demise of PCT commissioning the Trust now has responsibility for nearly all the former PCT provider services, including all cancer services and support, as well as joint working arrangements with the general hospitals (as they say, no health without mental health) so he has responsibility to oversee the vast majority of vulnerable people out there and all the unfortunate SUI cases under his watch.

There is anecdotal evidence of people taking their own lives at the immediate loss of a sporting idol (Ayrton Senna's death comes to mind) but that's significantly different from this situation here for several reasons; the loss isn't immediate, the loss isn't absolute and they're still alive, although this isn't essential for idolatry. Sudden loss can be shocking and cause people to react in extreme ways but this case has been going on for years and will continue to do so regardless of the USADA case so the impact will be significantly reduced for most if not all concerned.

iainf72

Timoid. wrote:

How the heck would anyone know this? This sounds like more Raceradio BS.

How many times has he called it wrong on this issue?

Jez mon

Do the rumours say whether confession plan involves throwing anyone else under the bus?

iainf72

Jez mon wrote:

Do the rumours say whether confession plan involves throwing anyone else under the bus?

No.

But I think we can assume from Pat's response, he knows this is likely.

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

How the heck would anyone know this? This sounds like more Raceradio BS.

How many times has he called it wrong on this issue?

He says a lot of stuff.

A broken clock blah blah.

andrewjoseph

BillyMansell wrote:

Hi andrewjoseph, I wasn't having a pop at you but being the internet things can get lost in translation particularly with the lack of non-verbal cues.

Don't I know it!

Whilst you may say the chief exec's response is anecdotal it provides causal links as to why people took their own lives which is substantially more than the suggestion of death by fallen idol. Someone may believe there is a link but that's for them to prove rather than just imply.

I also ought to say that chief exec oversees more than just the mental health and LD services. Since the demise of PCT commissioning the Trust now has responsibility for nearly all the former PCT provider services, including all cancer services and support, as well as joint working arrangements with the general hospitals (as they say, no health without mental health) so he has responsibility to oversee the vast majority of vulnerable people out there and all the unfortunate SUI cases under his watch.

There is anecdotal evidence of people taking their own lives at the immediate loss of a sporting idol (Ayrton Senna's death comes to mind) but that's significantly different from this situation here for several reasons; the loss isn't immediate, the loss isn't absolute and they're still alive, although this isn't essential for idolatry. Sudden loss can be shocking and cause people to react in extreme ways but this case has been going on for years and will continue to do so regardless of the USADA case so the impact will be significantly reduced for most if not all concerned.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it.

I still think that Lance is a special case though, read through some of the livestrong stuff from sufferers and survivors and you can see that not only does his pedestal go through the stratosphere, it's platinum plated with diamonds and pearls.

I believe I've read that some people attribute their remission/cure directly to their belief in Lance.

BigGar35

Where have this rumours come from? Am well into this case! Hope to god it doesn't go on for years but fear it will.

sherer

based on what we know of Lance and his personality I just can't see him confessing. I'm not even sure if he realises he has done anything wrong. I think he just feels he took doping to the next level and they all did it anyway

Jez mon

I suspect even Lance might get tired of fighting, and it looks like USADA have a fairly strong case. I don't know...do Americans do teary apologies?

Pross

Jez mon wrote:

I suspect even Lance might get tired of fighting, and it looks like USADA have a fairly strong case. I don't know...do Americans do teary apologies?

Picture Lance in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pmDTbt157c

dennisn

Jez mon wrote:

I suspect even Lance might get tired of fighting, and it looks like USADA have a fairly strong case. I don't know...do Americans do teary apologies?

I'm not so sure. You don't win 7 TDF's without having a bit of fight in you(drugs or no drugs).

Here's an idea. When this thing is over and done we, both the haters and fan boys, should do tearful apologies to each other. After all why should WE hate each other?

rick_chasey

Sod that.

I want a public display of all the emotions the die-hard fanbois are going through during and post confession.

alwaystoohot

So if Lance and Contador are guilty wadda we do, wipe the records clean for the last 10-15 years and tell the kids cycling wasn't invented until Wiggo came along in 2012?

These people have destroyed a wonderful sport.

dennisn

Rick Chasey wrote:

Sod that.

I want a public display of all the emotions the die-hard fanbois are going through during and post confession.

Exellent idea, but let's take it a step further. First we find both(one of each) an avid, deluded fanboy and a spiteful, venom filled, LA hater. On the day of the "decision" we have them film themselves. That should satisfy everyone and we can all get some sleep.

dennisn

Alwaystoohot wrote:

So if Lance and Contador are guilty wadda we do, wipe the records clean for the last 10-15 years and tell the kids cycling wasn't invented until Wiggo came along in 2012?

Why is "Wiggo" all of a sudden pure as the driven snow? Can he stay that way(if he is)?

Jez mon

dennisn wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I suspect even Lance might get tired of fighting, and it looks like USADA have a fairly strong case. I don't know...do Americans do teary apologies?

I'm not so sure. You don't win 7 TDF's without having a bit of fight in you(drugs or no drugs).

Here's an idea. When this thing is over and done we, both the haters and fan boys, should do tearful apologies to each other. After all why should WE hate each other?

Isn't the fact that he always had a fairly good chance of winning those 7 TdFs a key difference here?

derbygrimpeur

dennisn wrote:

Alwaystoohot wrote:

So if Lance and Contador are guilty wadda we do, wipe the records clean for the last 10-15 years and tell the kids cycling wasn't invented until Wiggo came along in 2012?

Why is "Wiggo" all of a sudden pure as the driven snow? Can he stay that way(if he is)?

alwaystoohot > Well, wipe the records in respect to proven drug cheats, yes. Doesn't mean we can't remember with fondness some of the great racing drugs produced.

dennisn > there is, currently, no compelling evidence to suggest Wiggo is not clean. Quite the opposite. If this changes, we can vilify him then.