How to climb a hill faster

thegodplato

Thanks for the advice. I'll try the drops on a few hills soon and report back! Is Philthy3 thinking you're on the drops whilst sitting down and climbing? I took it to mean you are out of the saddle whilst on the drops so really your hands are only maybe a few inches lower. Am I misunderstanding that bit?
My PR for Jubilee is just under the 15min mark, but I actually spent about 20-30 secs picking myself up and putting my chain back on at the start so that puts me on page 2 of the ranking at around 14:25!!! Not sure where you mean about that other hill - could you put a link to it?

robklancs

It's split into two parts due to the gates I imagine, you need to get off the bike and open them so it makes sense to have 2 leader boards, I didn't create this segment though, first part

http://app.strava.com/rides/9003116#164481458

Second part

http://app.strava.com/rides/9003116#164481464

And you have to do this joust to get to the start, if you do it properly from wray, there is a section on this which must be 30%.

http://app.strava.com/rides/9003116#164481452

You could always ride le terrier this Sunday, includes both plus a lot more.

thegodplato

Too many big hills there for me ( just yet!! ). I've only been cycling a couple for 2 months so a little more practise before the big(ger) rides. I notice that you did the road out of Bentham down to Chipping ( over the Forest of Bowland ) a couple of days before I went part way along ( http://app.strava.com/rides/9091405 ). I think I turned the road that you came up to join the Forest road as the rest of the road over the hills had a sign up saying Road Closed. Did you notice that on your ride? I didn't want to go down it only to have to turn around! And boy was it hot that day!

This was the route I did on Tuesday (http://app.strava.com/rides/9616207 ).

So as you can see I ain't as good a climber as most of you out there, nor as quick. But I'm improving!

robklancs

I went the opposite direction , from chipping to Bentham as I prefer the climb from that side. You tUrned off the road, I'm not sure why the road was closed, it's a great road, maybe roadworks? Maybe to stop cyclists over exerting on a hot day? Do try that road again though, the descent is the best around.

Escher303

I reckon you've just got to do as much climbing as you can. Just get out and ride as often as you can and it will really come

I've got a pretty good, high up time on Jubilee Tower and I'm not a club rider. In fact I bought a bike last October having not ridden one for ten years, lost some weight and I just get out and ride as much as I can, putting in as many hills as I can, gradually increasing the distance, intensity and amount of ascent. You've just got to put the work in. And there are so many fabulous hills to have a go at in the FoB.

I can suggest some good challenging rides from Poulton that'll set you on your way. In Bowland you can pack in 7000ft of ascent in 60 miles, that'll improve your climbing once you've recovered!

Get yourself up Cross of Greet and Bowland Knotts.

MarksMintness

CiB wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

That's the opposite of what I've been taught? How can compressing your torso help with hill climbing? etc...

Sigh. OP asked for tips on getting up hills faster. I thought that in amongst the flurry of usual advice I'd offer my little titbit about using the drops. Why? because it works, for me. I have a few climbs on my commute and since I started using the drops more I can maintain a higher speed and therefore get up more quickly. It works, for me. I'm not bent double gasping for breath, I adjust the arms so that that I'm gripping the drops not the hoods but to all intents and purposes the rest of my body - torso - is in the same place; there is no more compression going on than if I'm on the hoods with the arms parallel to the road, and much as I accept that sitting up and back is a way of climbing it presents a big obstacle for the wind if it's a blowy day. So sometimes I use the drops.

And where did I discover this method? Through observing the obviously quick (quicker) riders on sportives & club rides, the ones who I can live with on the flat but who drop me on climbs, or who sail past on the drops when I'm sitting up on the hoods working my up a hill.

It's not The Only Way Anyone Should Climb A Hill. It's an option. It works. For me. Ok?

+1 for this. Although it's not the usual way to approach a hill, I found that powering up shorter but steep hills out of the saddle but on the drops worked for me as well. Other times I'm on the hoods like Philthy. This whole subject is subjective, even amongst the pro's they all ascend differently with different cadences etc - Pantani used to climb using the drops all the time out of the saddle. But then again...

thegodplato

Escher303 wrote:

I can suggest some good challenging rides from Poulton that'll set you on your way. In Bowland you can pack in 7000ft of ascent in 60 miles, that'll improve your climbing once you've recovered!

Get yourself up Cross of Greet and Bowland Knotts.

Any mapped routes that I can check out, please?

Cleat Eastwood

thegodplato wrote:

[quote="Try doing the hill just at the bottom of parbold - cobbs brow lane its called

Or you could do higher lane up to lees lane, down lees lane and up appleby bridge - all of them are good for thee legs but so constant that you can practice spinning and grinding.

We would probably be on the B5246 from Eccleston which bring you out at the bottom of Parbold Hill. I'm not from round the area so would you suggest turning right along the main road, then turning right onto Higher Lane, Lees Lane and up Appleby Bridge back to the top of Parbold Hill, zoom down the Hill ( for that much needed psychological buzz ) back up the other side turning off down Cobbs Brow Lane or should we come up Cobbs Brow Lane first to the main road ( B5209 ), then turning off down Higher Lane, etc?
I'm not sure which was the hills are![/quote]

Hi I'd do right out of B5246, left at roundabout up higher lane - left into lees lane - up appleby bridge - mad zoom down parbold -

then

up cobbs brow

heres a gpx of a route up cobbs brow which takes you up beacons lane to the church - at the church you can go right up a steeper bit or left down to either lees lane or the roundabout again.

In the gpx file ive mapped it going right - up a steepish bit (when you see the second pub thats the hill done) - all the way down mill lane then its a big loop to farley lane/crow lane which is a great little climb - if you carry straight on past farley you end up at appleby bridge again so you can start the pain all over again

http://www.mediafire.com/?dwku4pdbukap37a

just upload the gpx file to here

http://maplorer.com/view_gpx.html

to see the route

thegodplato

I've tried the `drop` position on a few short climbs and maybe its worth persisting with as you seem to get more `grip`. Although my riding style on the hoods is to wiggle the bike left and right when struggling up a hill whilst out of the saddle. whether thats good practise or not I'm not certain and think it comes from my BMX racing days.
I'm not certain though that a really big climb would benefit the drops though.
Have just tried Waddington Fell climb coming from Dunsop Bridge and really struggled. Had to stop twice! Oops! But at least I made it I suppose!

robklancs

Wadding ton fell from Dunsop is quite a hard climb though, it's a great road! The first steep bit is hard easily 20% maybe a bit more and the final bit too is hard. Btw you tell people you were admiring the view when you stop, not getting your breath back! In my opinion the road that you said was closed last week, cross o greet, is harder than wadding ton fell. Always next time.

Herbsman

Have you tried pedaling harder?

thegodplato

Herbsman wrote:

Have you tried pedaling harder?

There's only so much pedalling I have in my legs! Not all of us are super hero's you know! And besides I was on my longest ride so didn't want to run out of steam too early. Next time I'll do better!

Rob, is this the silly sharp hairpin that now has a massive loose area of tarmac at the apex of the bend when going along it towards Scorton? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfAnV8Yd ... re=related

robklancs

Ha yes that would be me! When I used to have a bit more power, p.s don't take any tips from that vid!

alihisgreat

Herbsman wrote:

Have you tried pedaling harder?

Genius.

scazzer

thegodplato wrote:

[quote="Try doing the hill just at the bottom of parbold - cobbs brow lane its called

Or you could do higher lane up to lees lane, down lees lane and up appleby bridge - all of them are good for thee legs but so constant that you can practice spinning and grinding.

We would probably be on the B5246 from Eccleston which bring you out at the bottom of Parbold Hill. I'm not from round the area so would you suggest turning right along the main road, then turning right onto Higher Lane, Lees Lane and up Appleby Bridge back to the top of Parbold Hill, zoom down the Hill ( for that much needed psychological buzz ) back up the other side turning off down Cobbs Brow Lane or should we come up Cobbs Brow Lane first to the main road ( B5209 ), then turning off down Higher Lane, etc?
I'm not sure which was the hills are![/quote]

Hi thegodplato
you could give Bannister ln a try,pretty steep but only short .Or,when you cycle across the top of Parbold to the bottom of the hill turn right to ur 1st mini roundabout and take left up Higher Ln and continue along onto Beacon Ln.
Higher Ln not steep but is a continuous steady climb then steps up abit as you get onto Beacon Ln but not to long.

It levels out along the top of the Beacon then take a left onto Crow Ln just b4 the road drops down,its a nice steady decent,follow till the end and take a left and then follow that road to you come to a cross roads with Dicconson Arms pub on ur left,take a left turn and ur on ur way back down Parbold hill

Need any helpwith route gizza shout

baldwin471

scazzer wrote:

thegodplato wrote:

[quote="Try doing the hill just at the bottom of parbold - cobbs brow lane its called

Or you could do higher lane up to lees lane, down lees lane and up appleby bridge - all of them are good for thee legs but so constant that you can practice spinning and grinding.

We would probably be on the B5246 from Eccleston which bring you out at the bottom of Parbold Hill. I'm not from round the area so would you suggest turning right along the main road, then turning right onto Higher Lane, Lees Lane and up Appleby Bridge back to the top of Parbold Hill, zoom down the Hill ( for that much needed psychological buzz ) back up the other side turning off down Cobbs Brow Lane or should we come up Cobbs Brow Lane first to the main road ( B5209 ), then turning off down Higher Lane, etc?
I'm not sure which was the hills are!

Hi thegodplato
you could give Bannister ln a try,pretty steep but only short .Or,when you cycle across the top of Parbold to the bottom of the hill turn right to ur 1st mini roundabout and take left up Higher Ln and continue along onto Beacon Ln.
Higher Ln not steep but is a continuous steady climb then steps up abit as you get onto Beacon Ln but not to long.

It levels out along the top of the Beacon then take a left onto Crow Ln just b4 the road drops down,its a nice steady decent,follow till the end and take a left and then follow that road to you come to a cross roads with Dicconson Arms pub on ur left,take a left turn and ur on ur way back down Parbold hill

Need any helpwith route gizza shout [/quote]

Off topic, but do you happen to be Noblelox on Not606? You may think I'm mad if you aren't but you both have the same profile picture

scazzer

No def not me mate,but does look good site

Escher303

thegodplato wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

Have you tried pedaling harder?

There's only so much pedalling I have in my legs! Not all of us are super hero's you know! And besides I was on my longest ride so didn't want to run out of steam too early. Next time I'll do better!

Rob, is this the silly sharp hairpin that now has a massive loose area of tarmac at the apex of the bend when going along it towards Scorton? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfAnV8Yd ... re=related

Yes that's in Marshaw. Glad I already knew about it going that way today. Theres also a cattle grid with a dodgy metal rung nearby too. Keep an eye out.

joshr96

I think it was Lance Armstrong who suggested sitting in the saddle when climbing.
Personally, I find that if you sit down on the majority of the hill and really push it, gaining momentum, then you can give it a final thrust nearing the peak out of the saddle.
The theory is that you will have the momentum for after the climb, so you can catch your breath and wait for the lactic acid to go away before you start pedaling again.

thegodplato

Surely though, sitting / standing depends on the steepness of the hill? A ride I've done from my mates house goes around Rivington and I can't see how you can climb Moor Road ( from the sharp hairpin ) without being out of the saddle unless you have really low gearing? Before Moor Road we climbed up Sheep House Lane which I did complete sat down. Would like to hear people's opinions on those two climbs. Thanks.

Isn't lactic acid the really strong burning sensation that really really hurts and takes a while to go away?

P_Tucker

Josh Harfoot wrote:

I think it was Lance Armstrong who suggested sitting in the saddle when climbing.

That's absolutely true. And Apple invented music.

daxplusplus

thegodplato wrote:

Isn't lactic acid the really strong burning sensation that really really hurts and takes a while to go away?

My knowledge on this is shakey (and comes from climbing rather than cycling) but yep .. lactic acid is a by-product of your muscles working anerobically (rather than aerobically*). You have a much reduced ability to use muscles anerobically (compared to areobically) so it's a really good sign that your working at a level that is on a timer and that the clock is ticking.

How and if the lactic acid kicks in will depend, I guess, on many things but mainly: the difficulty of the climb, your technique\pace and your fitness.

One thing that we learn in climbing is that being stronger actually helps a lot with other areas of your performance (and not just for the obvious reason of being able to excert a higher maximum amount of force) becuase being stronger means not entering the anerobic zone at all compared to someone that is weaker doing exactly the same exercise.

* aerobic exercise is where the muscles take oxygen from the blood and is as sustainable as it gets .. I guess you only stop when your blood is unable to supply any more food rather than oxygen but that is measured in hours rather than seconds and minutes. Anerobic exercise on the other hand is when the muscles start to take the oxygen from sources within the muscle and is very limited. Depending on the exercise it can be that your can only continue to exercise anerobically for seconds\minutes. You can train your ability to extend this period very successfully but it's still an order of magnitude smaller than your ability to use your muscles aerobically.

Ps This is my working understanding of how lactic acid and muscles work .. if anyone can explain it correctly \better or inlight of cycling I'm all ears.

P_Tucker

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

thegodplato wrote:

Isn't lactic acid the really strong burning sensation that really really hurts and takes a while to go away?

My knowledge on this is shakey (and comes from climbing rather than cycling) but yep .. lactic acid is a by-product of your muscles working anerobically (rather than aerobically*). You have a much reduced ability to use muscles anerobically (compared to areobically) so it's a really good sign that your working at a level that is on a timer and that the clock is ticking.

How and if the lactic acid kicks in will depend, I guess, on many things but mainly: the difficulty of the climb, your technique\pace and your fitness.

One thing that we learn in climbing is that being stronger actually helps a lot with other areas of your performance (and not just for the obvious reason of being able to excert a higher maximum amount of force) becuase being stronger means not entering the anerobic zone at all compared to someone that is weaker doing exactly the same exercise.

* aerobic exercise is where the muscles take oxygen from the blood and is as sustainable as it gets .. I guess you only stop when your blood is unable to supply any more food rather than oxygen but that is measured in hours rather than seconds and minutes. Anerobic exercise on the other hand is when the muscles start to take the oxygen from sources within the muscle and is very limited. Depending on the exercise it can be that your can only continue to exercise anerobically for seconds\minutes. You can train your ability to extend this period very successfully but it's still an order of magnitude smaller than your ability to use your muscles aerobically.

Ps This is my working understanding of how lactic acid and muscles work .. if anyone can explain it correctly \better or inlight of cycling I'm all ears.

If you don't know, don't comment FFS. I stopped reading after 2.5 paragraphs because it was entirely wrong.

daxplusplus

P_Tucker wrote:

If you don't know, don't comment FFS. I stopped reading after 2.5 paragraphs because it was entirely wrong.

Sorry which bit is wrong? I think I made about four points:

1. Lactic acid is generated when muscles operate anerobically.
2. Anerobic exerice is when muscles are not able to get oxygen via normal methods (the blood supply)
2. Muscles operating anerobically is not sustanable, and
3. Being stronger enables muscles to stay out of the anerobic level of exercise.

thegodplato

I would think your not too far off as when I first had the pain, it was in the first few weeks of getting into cycling and so my leg muscles weren't used to be pedalling for the miles I did. I haven't had the pain for a while now and put it down to getting fitter/stronger. Now as I have increased the climb rate and distance my last ride gave me a lot of pain during the ride but not when I got home.
P_Tucker, can you not give reasons behind your comments instead of being a bit of a Nob?

P_Tucker

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

If you don't know, don't comment FFS. I stopped reading after 2.5 paragraphs because it was entirely wrong.

Sorry which bit is wrong? I think I made about four points:

1. Lactic acid is generated when muscles operate anerobically.

Lactic acid is produced all the time, even at rest. However, its a good thing and doesn't (directly) cause the pain in your muscles (as was thought 20 years ago). Without it our capacity for high intensity exercise would be practically eliminated

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

2. Anerobic exerice is when muscles are not able to get oxygen via normal methods (the blood supply)

Muscles are practically always able to generate ATP via the aerobic system; the anaerobic systems (simplistically) kick in when the demands cannot be met via the aerobic system alone

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

2. Muscles operating anerobically is not sustanable

Debatable. Only 98% of the energy required to run a marathon is produced aerobically (according to wikipedia) .

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

3. Being stronger enables muscles to stay out of the anerobic level of exercise.

Utter nonsense. Strength is not a limiting factor for any type of cycling except for standing track starts. The limiting factor in anything over probably 30 seconds is how quickly ATP can be produced.

Slack

Why is this thread still going....??

The OP has only been riding since February. It takes a very long time to get properly cycling fit. The answer to the question is: GET FITTER!!!!

Or have I missed a point, is this just about Strava bagging/bragging/blagging.

okgo

Doesn't take that long, just have to put the work in!

smidsy

okgo wrote:

Doesn't take that long, just have to put the work in!

This. I am a prime example of that (using reverse logic).

Started cycling in January after 20 years of doing nothing and in that time my general fitness has increased as well as my general riding ability over normal terrain (i.e flat to moderately undulating)..Regularly do 40 milers now and have done a 50. However I rarely do hills.

Consequently as soon as I am presented with a real hill my head tells me I'm crap and I end up in the granny ring and fall way behind.

So in short I have concluded - riding up hills lots is the only way to get faster at them. I am now off to do some - honest. :oops:

thegibdog

thegodplato wrote:

Surely though, sitting / standing depends on the steepness of the hill? A ride I've done from my mates house goes around Rivington and I can't see how you can climb Moor Road ( from the sharp hairpin ) without being out of the saddle unless you have really low gearing? Before Moor Road we climbed up Sheep House Lane which I did complete sat down. Would like to hear people's opinions on those two climbs. Thanks.

Moor Road can be done seated but the initial steep section I find is quicker done standing up just to maintain momentum. I've even done the 25% section on Ramsbottom Rake seated (gear issues meant I couldn't get out of the saddle) in 34x25, it was very slow though!