How to climb a hill faster

thegodplato

Having been only riding since Feb and only just starting to go for big hills ( although you proper cyclists might call them average hills ) to increase my training levels and fitness in preparation for a C2C in one day during Sept this year I wonder what is the best way to attack a hill. I know a mixture of stood up and sat down is good for you as it varys the use of your leg muscles. Is it a case of just getting to know the hill over time? I've only managed 56.5miles as my furthest distance ( and that 0.5miles really counts to me!!!! ) so far but try to do a 40-50 mid week ride ( solo ) and then a ride with my mate at the weekend were we go over the 50mile mark averaging around 16mph. Typically we'd climb about 3000 feet for the ride with some grade 4 hills. He is a lot fitter than me and I just let him power up the hills on his own whereas I go at my own pace and try to keep a steady rhythm going.
I think my problem is the fact that I'm nervous of not making it home and so might be being too cautious especially as each route we seem to be doing is different and don't always know what is still to come on the ride.
Yesterdays challenge ( for me ) was to get up Parbold Hill which I failed the previous attempt. I managed it but my mate was about 200m in front of me. We then rode into Wigan and then over Rivington where we caught up to a Hybrid going up Moor Road Climb. I couldn't catch him, although he didn't pull away, he just seems to be spinning a low gear and I was puffing and panting in my bottom gear ( which was obviously still higher than his ). I did catch him further on though.
When I compare my climb times on Strava there are a shed load of people who do these climbs far far quicker than me, sometimes well over twice as quick so my question is how do I improve my climb speed?
Jubilee Tower climb is another one that I've done and I'm over 5 mins slower than the fastest one ( 14:55 compared to 9:17 ).
Do I just go for it and just hope I don't burn out later on?

rick_chasey

1) People are always slow up hills. It's just a question of how slow

2) Best way to climb hills quicker is to get fitter! That usually means practice going up the hills lots.

nickel

Simply put the more hills you ride up, the faster you'll be able to ride up them, sounds like you've doing some fairly hilly rides as it is. Perhaps when you're out on your own and you know the route try attacking climbs a bit harder than you normally would, and I wouldn't worry about how you compare to the KOM on strava, some people are just stupidly quick!

Escher303

Are you carrying any extra lard? Lose that and you'll go up hills quicker. Also you can do some specific hill training when you aren't worried about running out of steam on a longer ride. Find a hill, maybe 1/2 a mile or a mile long, ride up it as quickly as you can, come back downhill and do it again. Start with 3 or 5, do more as your fitness improves. Do one only in the saddle, and alternate with another allowing out of the saddle. Put your all into it, don't coast. Intervals hurt but the do make you stronger. Do intervals only once a week.

Like most training be specific. If you want to go up hills faster, go up some hills faster, it might kill at first but your body will adapt. Make sure you have a drink of chocolate milk or a recovery drink within 20 minutes of finishing and a decent meal of carbs and protein within an hour and your efforts will translate into more power and therefore faster speeds up hills. If you can lose weight too you'll see good improvements.

Which Jubilee Tower climb are you talking about? There's one near me. After getting a road bike last September I never thought I'd be able to get up it. Did for the first time a few months ago, I now have one of the fastest times (on Strava - certainly not faster than the really fast lads) for it. It's come from just riding a lot, training on hills and doing them often, always increasing, gradually, how much I am doing. It'll all come if you put the work in.

thegodplato

This is the start of the Jubilee Hill climb - http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... ut=svembed I have to ride about 19miles to get to it. We are supposed to be driving to the car park at the top and cycling down, then having a real go up and then go off somewhere else for a ride.
I'm 5`10" and 12 stone 9 pounds so not a fatty by any stretch. I already use MyProtein Hurricane Evo before and after a ride.
Practise it is then!!!!

Escher303

Yep, that's the one, just down the road from me, now do it 2 or 3 times a week after thinking I'd never be able to do it even once! Practice it is, indeed. Good luck.

styxd

Although if you got down to 11 stone then you'd be even faster!

Ringo 68

thegodplato wrote:

This is the start of the Jubilee Hill climb - http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... ut=svembed I have to ride about 19miles to get to it. We are supposed to be driving to the car park at the top and cycling down, then having a real go up and then go off somewhere else for a ride.
I'm 5`10" and 12 stone 9 pounds so not a fatty by any stretch. I already use MyProtein Hurricane Evo before and after a ride.
Practise it is then!!!!

This isn't meant to be an insult so please don't take it that way.

I am half an inch taller than you and weigh 11 stone 8 pounds (down from about 13.5 stone) I still have a fair bit of excess fat that needs to be shifted around my middle.
I have just done a hill today that at my heaviest I collasped at the top and didn't move for 15 minutes. Today I got to the top and wondered if they has somehow shortened it and I put a lot of that down to the fact I have lost some weight (and obviously got fitter and stronger at the same time)
There is always room to shed a few pounds (for most people) and I think it makes a big difference on the hills.

rolf_f

Jubilee Tower is a nice climb - it's only really steep at the bottom but it takes a long time to get round to levelling off! But this does mean that as you get more tired, the gradient gets easier. It looks fairly horrible from the hill opposite coming from Lancaster though - that's the first I saw it. Streetview will duplicate the lovely view no doubt!

thegodplato

We come from the road the photo is taken from.

I doubt very much I will get under 12 stone. I was always around that weight as a teenager, which crept up to 12.5 stone in my 20's/early 30's and then I was around 13 stone until I started cycling ( I'm 40 now ). I do have a bit of a tummy, not much and thin-ish arms. My legs, though are fairly muscular as I used to be a really good BMX-er and sprinter in my youthful days and now that I'm back cycling ( after 20 years of not! ) have already noticed a change in the look of my legs muscles so much so that some of my jeans are hard work to get off!

CiB

Get down on the drops (hands firmly gripping the curved section below the STI locations) and you'll find that you can exert more effort more easily by pushing through the thighs and pulling through the arms at the same time, therefore you'll climb more quickly. Using the drops like this has nothing to do with aerodynamics.

You still need core strength, fitness, aerobic capacity and need to lose some of the excess weight but I find being on the drops gives me more ooomph.

alihisgreat

CiB wrote:

Get down on the drops (hands firmly gripping the curved section below the STI locations) and you'll find that you can exert more effort more easily by pushing through the thighs and pulling through the arms at the same time, therefore you'll climb more quickly. Using the drops like this has nothing to do with aerodynamics.

You still need core strength, fitness, aerobic capacity and need to lose some of the excess weight but I find being on the drops gives me more ooomph.

Most people prefer to climb on the tops or hoods to breath better...

technique wise I like to stay seated most of the time, and stand up for steeper bits when I'm struggling.

If you sit back in the saddle you can really push down on the pedals, engaging your quads more and adding variation to your position on long climbs.

CiB

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Most people prefer to climb on the tops or hoods to breath better...

Concur, but using the drops is a useful addition to the armoury and it works, and there isn't much difference in torso angle (compressing the stomach & diaphragm) between the hoods and the middle of the drops. It's another option, not 'the only way to do it'. Sorry for not making that clearer.

Cleat Eastwood

try and do less steep climbs at a greater speed, it worked for me. You'll never do parbold faster by constantly riding up it - it varies too much, the flattish bit of the bottom, the 14% middle bit and the leveling off at the top, its hard to keep the rhthym of the bottom into the steep bit.

Try doing the hill just at the bottom of parbold - cobbs brow lane its called

Or you could do higher lane up to lees lane, down lees lane and up appleby bridge - all of them are good for thee legs but so constant that you can practice spinning and grinding.

and dont worry about strava a lot of the times on rivington belmont are from club riders - going up at steady pace in a group is a looooot easier than struggling on alone

Agent57

Jubilee Tower is my nemesis. I hate that climb. I might like it more if I were 20 years younger and 3 stone lighter, but still...

If it makes you feel better, here's a ride I did 4 years ago that I put on Strava recently.

http://app.strava.com/activities/3036001

According to the "Official Jubilee Tower Hill Climb TT route" segment, I'm in 95th place out of 96, with a time of 27:38.

thegodplato

Confused with your time Agent57 as the Jubilee Tower bit has you as KOM. I think that is the short first bit?

I've just done 55miles today and cracked the big climb over the Trough of Bowland coming from the Inn at Whitewell side. First time I've gone this way, previously I've gone down it - much easier!! I was fairly happy with my efforts as I'd ridden 30miles or so to get to it and did it in 11.02 but it was hard work! Damn club rider got up in 5mins!! I'm only a minute off my old mate who I used to do BMX with and he rides a lot!

Never thought about using the drops to go up a hill. I might try that and see how I get on.

Agent57

thegodplato wrote:

Confused with your time Agent57 as the Jubilee Tower bit has you as KOM.

If only!

Obviously some sort of Strava blip, as there's no way in hell I've got KOM or anything near it on any part of Jubilee Tower.

"KOM on Jubilee Tower (00:10:42) " doesn't make sense, because if you look at the segment that actually relates to (http://app.strava.com/segments/623057), the KOM is 5:32, and my time was 14:16.

Garz

Escher303 wrote:

Which Jubilee Tower climb are you talking about?

That is a pretty tough climb if it's the one I tackled on the 'Ride of the Roses' for the BHF a few years back. Quite deceiving, but pacing is key on any long hill. As mentioned above there are two basic ways to 'improve' in a quick and dirty fashion - 1) lose weight, 2) practice then practice some more!

thegodplato

[quote="Try doing the hill just at the bottom of parbold - cobbs brow lane its called

Or you could do higher lane up to lees lane, down lees lane and up appleby bridge - all of them are good for thee legs but so constant that you can practice spinning and grinding.[/quote]

We would probably be on the B5246 from Eccleston which bring you out at the bottom of Parbold Hill. I'm not from round the area so would you suggest turning right along the main road, then turning right onto Higher Lane, Lees Lane and up Appleby Bridge back to the top of Parbold Hill, zoom down the Hill ( for that much needed psychological buzz ) back up the other side turning off down Cobbs Brow Lane or should we come up Cobbs Brow Lane first to the main road ( B5209 ), then turning off down Higher Lane, etc?
I'm not sure which was the hills are!

robklancs

The jubilee tower official tt route is my segment, I created it, those at the top are good club riders so don't worry about them, the actual course record is either high 6 or low 7 mins I think, that's quick! I used to be top ten I think now about 30 th but that will drop more this weekend after le terrier. The 100. Climbs guide says around 15 mins for the hill so your not far off. If you think jubilee tower is hard you should give roeburndale a try, it's in the next valley to the north hiding behind cougha pike, gravel, gates and steepness

StillGoing

CiB wrote:

Get down on the drops (hands firmly gripping the curved section below the STI locations) and you'll find that you can exert more effort more easily by pushing through the thighs and pulling through the arms at the same time, therefore you'll climb more quickly. Using the drops like this has nothing to do with aerodynamics.

You still need core strength, fitness, aerobic capacity and need to lose some of the excess weight but I find being on the drops gives me more ooomph.

That's the opposite of what I've been taught? How can compressing your torso help with hill climbing? The technique I was taught is to put your hands on the top of the bars, sit back in the saddle, sit tall, and drop the heel to push over the top of the stroke. You're trying to emulate riding a recumbent. The technique certainly speeded me going up hills. Also, do you have enough room at the top of the stroke? Anything less than a 70' bend at the top of the stroke means you can't pedal effectively and tire more rapidly.

thecrofter

philthy3 wrote:

CiB wrote:

Get down on the drops (hands firmly gripping the curved section below the STI locations) and you'll find that you can exert more effort more easily by pushing through the thighs and pulling through the arms at the same time, therefore you'll climb more quickly. Using the drops like this has nothing to do with aerodynamics.

You still need core strength, fitness, aerobic capacity and need to lose some of the excess weight but I find being on the drops gives me more ooomph.

That's the opposite of what I've been taught? How can compressing your torso help with hill climbing? The technique I was taught is to put your hands on the top of the bars, sit back in the saddle, sit tall, and drop the heel to push over the top of the stroke. You're trying to emulate riding a recumbent. The technique certainly speeded me going up hills. Also, do you have enough room at the top of the stroke? Anything less than a 70' bend at the top of the stroke means you can't pedal effectively and tire more rapidly.

Watch the pro's.
While us mere mortals will never be able to match their speed, surely trying to emulate their technique is the way to go. IMHO they are quick for two reasons 1. incredible fitness 2. great technique.

Oh! and for the OP......... ride more hills and lose a stone.

springtide9

The most important thing about climbing is to pace yourself. It's so easy to go off too fast or put really big efforts mid climb on the tougher sections (only to suffer later)

It was really interesting climbing with a Powertap for the first time... trying to keep a constant effort - at the bottom I felt like I wasn't putting in any effort, but just maintaining that effort to the top of the climb was a struggle.

Technique obviously helps, which is mainly about switching positions. Seems to change the focus of impacted muscle groups, as well as allowing stretching and/or allowing blood to flow back into the legs if you've been seated for a long time.

CiB

philthy3 wrote:

That's the opposite of what I've been taught? How can compressing your torso help with hill climbing? etc...

Sigh. OP asked for tips on getting up hills faster. I thought that in amongst the flurry of usual advice I'd offer my little titbit about using the drops. Why? because it works, for me. I have a few climbs on my commute and since I started using the drops more I can maintain a higher speed and therefore get up more quickly. It works, for me. I'm not bent double gasping for breath, I adjust the arms so that that I'm gripping the drops not the hoods but to all intents and purposes the rest of my body - torso - is in the same place; there is no more compression going on than if I'm on the hoods with the arms parallel to the road, and much as I accept that sitting up and back is a way of climbing it presents a big obstacle for the wind if it's a blowy day. So sometimes I use the drops.

And where did I discover this method? Through observing the obviously quick (quicker) riders on sportives & club rides, the ones who I can live with on the flat but who drop me on climbs, or who sail past on the drops when I'm sitting up on the hoods working my up a hill.

It's not The Only Way Anyone Should Climb A Hill. It's an option. It works. For me. Ok?

daxplusplus

Agree re pacing.

The further up the climb the less risk there is your going to go for it too early, blow up and put in a truely awful performance. So best to monitor what your body is doing very closely at the start of the climb when the risk is high and watch out for signs that your at unsustainable work levels. As you move up the climb - the risk of you blowing up reduces so start to push yourself out of your comfort zone.

By the time I get to the top I'd hope to start increasing my speed even more as the gradient levels out and the amount of effort required reduces significantly.

BTW I think a lot of what you think you can achieve is actually all in your mind .. so it's worth upping the effort levels every once in a while and taking a risk .. if you do blow up it doesn't matter but you may be surprised.

Thats my experience anyway.

daxplusplus

CiB wrote:

So sometimes I use the drops.

I found this technique really helps on v. small hills that I've hit at speed already on the drops, it feels more natural. Felt more like a roller coaster ride than a cycle ride

Not tried it on longer hills.

ShutUpLegs

philthy3 wrote:

CiB wrote:

Get down on the drops

That's the opposite of what I've been taught?

Who the hell taught you :?: Your nutrition advice on the other thread was absolute guff as well

StillGoing

ShutUpLegs wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

CiB wrote:

Get down on the drops

That's the opposite of what I've been taught?

Who the hell taught you :?: Your nutrition advice on the other thread was absolute guff as well

You're a bit of a troll aren't you. Try getting out more, you'll make more friends that way.

StillGoing

CiB wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

That's the opposite of what I've been taught? How can compressing your torso help with hill climbing? etc...

Sigh. OP asked for tips on getting up hills faster. I thought that in amongst the flurry of usual advice I'd offer my little titbit about using the drops. Why? because it works, for me. I have a few climbs on my commute and since I started using the drops more I can maintain a higher speed and therefore get up more quickly. It works, for me. I'm not bent double gasping for breath, I adjust the arms so that that I'm gripping the drops not the hoods but to all intents and purposes the rest of my body - torso - is in the same place; there is no more compression going on than if I'm on the hoods with the arms parallel to the road, and much as I accept that sitting up and back is a way of climbing it presents a big obstacle for the wind if it's a blowy day. So sometimes I use the drops.

And where did I discover this method? Through observing the obviously quick (quicker) riders on sportives & club rides, the ones who I can live with on the flat but who drop me on climbs, or who sail past on the drops when I'm sitting up on the hoods working my up a hill.

It's not The Only Way Anyone Should Climb A Hill. It's an option. It works. For me. Ok?

I wasn't having a pop, just curious how what would for me be a further compression of the torso would help with breathing.

CiB

philthy3 wrote:

I wasn't having a pop, just curious how what would for me be a further compression of the torso would help with breathing.

Breathing's overrated in if you ask me.

springtide9

re: drops vs hoods for climbing

From what I was told on a bike fit and have also read on various training books...

- in the drops there is more of a focus of the energy being produced by your quads
- on the hoods there is more of a focus of the energy being produced by your glutes

Apparently it's down to the angle of your upper body. It makes sense to me as if I sit bolt upright on the bike and push a heavy gear, I really feel my glutes.

Just to throw anther spanner into the works, when I come out of the saddle I also like to occationally switch to the drops.. it seems to focus any power going through your legs rather than being wasted on your upper body supporting yourself on the hoods, as well as allowing you to pull on the bars to push the peddle down.
It's not a position that I generally will use for very long mind you; it is also the perfect position for sprinting if VO2 Max efforts are your thing.

But generally the key is to try and keep up the effort; and as people have mentioned, your primary limiting factor is that it generally hurts, so is more a mental barrier than a physical one. Switching positions for me generally means it takes my mind off the effort for a while as I try something else... when that hurts, I try something else.