La Doyenne *spoiler*

frenchfighter

I think you are in the minority Rick. This race is amazing. The last hour or so is always exciting and re-watching them a year later or so is always worth while. There is always gaps at the end and no one up there who deserve it (unlike MSR), and this race guarantees big favourites going for broke solo or in small groups.

It's just like most of these long races, 5 odd hours to wear out the legs then 1hr of hostilities.

For those who have watched a lot longer than I - can you remember a time this race finished with a big bunch sprint?

frenchfighter

Last 38km Uk Es:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqarmq ... rch_algo=1

ddraver

greasedscotsman wrote:

No, wait. I don't think cycling racing is for you. Your always complaining it's boring, not really sure why you watch. Have you ever thought of watching something like wrestling instead? Think you might like it!

We seem to be going through a spate of this at the moment, it's getting a bit boring isn't it! That said, I can't comment on today as I was showing the parents Amsterdam...

rick_chasey

The racing is shut for too long.

I was whining about Amstel to Lionel Birnie in his cycling cafe chat thing, asking the same - if Amstel was always a boring race and he came back with that most of the racing happens 'from behind' in that you get a steady attrition over the climbs.

It seems this year in particular no-one is in great form so everyone's just keen to have made it into the finale, without actually having any idea what they'll do once they get there. The race gets whittled and whittled down, and all the big favourites just sit there. In Amstel, more often than not they do that and agree that whoever's left can duke it out on the Cauberg - it's rare a rider with a real change goes off before the Cauberg.

Seem similar in Liege. People talk about La Redoute being the climb, but all that does is throw a few non-favourites out the back.

With Nibali he seemd to get to the top, eased up because he was knackered, and then was more or less the only one who realised everyone else was knackered too so he went for it. Only then did it finally kick off. 20km from the finish on that parcours? C'mon.

And it wasn't a good hour of hostilities. There were virtually none of significance untill the Cote de La Roche aux Faucons which is 20km out.

Maybe I just don't like the Ardenne races. I mean, even in the Tour of Lombardy it breaks up much earlier and the course is so much more dramatic.

rick_chasey

Ah, I just wanna enjoy them, and I rarely do .

greasedscotsman

So come on then, what would you do? Stop whining, lets have some ideas man!

rick_chasey

greasedscotsman wrote:

So come on then, what would you do? Stop whining, lets have some ideas man!

Not sure if it's possible given the Liege can't really twist and turn like the Ronde or Roubaix, and, well, it's very old - I'd like to see a bigger selection earlier on - so that we see the favourites without team-mates earlier on - so the tactics start sooner and the teams can't control it for so long.

RichN95.

There are two things to note.

1. Races from the past which seem fascinating in a written summary probably weren't as good as they sound.

2. The general standard of the peloton is much higher than it used to be and there much less variation in ability than there was in the olden days. The 200th best rider is much closer to the 10th best than he used to be. Back in the day, half the peloton just wasn't good enough. More quality riders means things are kept together more.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

There are two things to note.

1. Races from the past which seem fascinating in a written summary probably weren't as good as they sound.

2. The general standard of the peloton is much higher than it used to be and there much less variation in ability than there was in the olden days. The 200th best rider is much closer to the 10th best than he used to be. Back in the day, half the peloton just wasn't good enough. More quality riders means things are kept together more.

For sure, but I'm comparing to other races in the season.

greasedscotsman

Not sure you can do anything about it being old? But I'm sure there is plenty of scope to change the route. Does it even have to go to Bastonge? Could it just go "near" Bastogne? Maybe you could pack in more climbs at the end? But then would that make the teams more cautious than they currently are? You could certainly cut down on the size of teams. Maybe there is something in that?

But to be honest Rick, I don't think you'll get racing like you did "back in the day". Racing has changed. No one will attack from La Redoute cos it's too far from the finish. It has so little chance of working. When was the last time the race winning move went from there? Is that where you would attack if you were riding today?

greasedscotsman

Rick Chasey wrote:

For sure, but I'm comparing to other races in the season.

So which race do you think was best then? I have enjoyed all the classic so far this year. Don't think there has been a stand out race, like Flanders was last year, but they have all been good.

RichN95.

If you want to break things up earlier, then make the roads narrower. What splits things up in Roubaix and RVV isn't the particular difficulty of the cobbles or bergs, in more the fact that you can only fit two bikes across the road. Not only does it string things out but the effort needed to keep up the front takes a toll. In LBL there's no need to be anywhere but the middle of the peloton for the first 220km.

rick_chasey

greasedscotsman wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

For sure, but I'm comparing to other races in the season.

So which race do you think was best then? I have enjoyed all the classic so far this year. Don't think there has been a stand out race, like Flanders was last year, but they have all been good.

I really enjoyed M-SR. I thought Paris Nice was good in bits. Het Niuewsblad was good fun, as were all the cobbles really.

GW maybe not so, but I kind anticipated that. Flanders wasn't a classic but I still really enjoyed it, and not just because of Boonen. Roubaix perhaps wasn't the best race, but that bit between the Arenberg and Boonen's decisive attack was really very interesting and exciting.

The Giro del Trentino was really good fun too. Really put me in the mood for the Giro.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

If you want to break things up earlier, then make the roads narrower. What splits things up in Roubaix and RVV isn't the particular difficulty of the cobbles or bergs, in more the fact that you can only fit two bikes across the road. Not only does it string things out but the effort needed to keep up the front takes a toll. In LBL there's no need to be anywhere but the middle of the peloton for the first 220km.

Tend to agree, though Amstel isn't totally solved by that!

greasedscotsman

Rick Chasey wrote:

I really enjoyed M-SR.

But wasn't that race just as predictable as Liege? Attacks from no hopers on the Cipressa, followed by attacks on the Poggio, will the break stay away or will there be a bunch sprint? Isn't that what always happens? And it's not like the action started a long way out, the bottom of the Cipressa is 28km from San Remo.

Rick Chasey wrote:

...but that bit between the Arenberg and Boonen's decisive attack was really very interesting and exciting.

That's cos you saw me by the roadside, wasn't it?

Rick Chasey wrote:

Really put me in the mood for the Giro.

Yeah, looking forward to that also, now I'm Sky-ed up!

greasedscotsman

Another thing is not everyone sees the race the same way. For example, you saw Nibali's attack like this...

Rick Chasey wrote:

With Nibali he seemd to get to the top, eased up because he was knackered, and then was more or less the only one who realised everyone else was knackered too so he went for it. Only then did it finally kick off.

Whereas Nevman saw it like this...

nevman wrote:

Did anyone else see Nibali pretend to sit up on the top of Redoute,look around as the chasers did the same then grabbed 10 metres?Or was it me.Looked like great racecraft anyway.

TBH, I would tend to agree with Nevman, but then I like bike racing.

Pross

Damn those Europcar wheelsuckers. Ruined an inspired PTP pick with Rolland sitting on Martin's wheel when he went after Iglinsky and then TV pipping him in the sprint!

Good ride by Iglinsky though, really well timed chase.

nevman

greasedscotsman wrote:

nevman wrote:

Did anyone else see Nibali pretend to sit up on the top of Redoute,look around as the chasers did the same then grabbed 10 metres?Or was it me.Looked like great racecraft anyway.

No, I think it was Nibali.

And wasn't it on the Roche aux Faucons?

Review-yes it was Roche but anyway it was very clever and gave him that solo break-so wanted him to make it home first.

rick_chasey

Astana and Eurostar and Katusha are definitely the winners of the Ardenne.

BMC definitely the big losers.

LangerDan

Rick Chasey wrote:

Astana and Eurostar and Katusha are definitely the winners of the Ardenne.

BMC definitely the big losers.

Europcar? How? Out of the nine "podium" positions in the past week, they scored a big fat zero. Feck, even Pip managed a third and he's useless.

I think Europcar need to let Rolland off the leash and give them a few more options.

rick_chasey

LangerDan wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Astana and Eurostar and Katusha are definitely the winners of the Ardenne.

BMC definitely the big losers.

Europcar? How? Out of the nine "podium" positions in the past week, they scored a big fat zero. Feck, even Pip managed a third and he's useless.

I think Europcar need to let Rolland off the leash and give them a few more options.

They won the Brabanste pijl ?

Pross

Rick Chasey wrote:

Astana and Eurostar and Katusha are definitely the winners of the Ardenne.

BMC definitely the big losers.

Sky were the big losers in the spring classics overall though. In contention in all of them, often with 3 or 4 riders and ballsed it up everytime. Yesterday they had 3 riders in the second group but missed out on putting anyone in the frame. on the plus side I suppose they have had Nordhaug come through as as possible contender for future Ardennes classics and maybe the likes of Lombardy.

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Astana and Eurostar and Katusha are definitely the winners of the Ardenne.

BMC definitely the big losers.

Sky were the big losers in the spring classics overall though. In contention in all of them, often with 3 or 4 riders and ballsed it up everytime. Yesterday they had 3 riders in the second group but missed out on putting anyone in the frame. on the plus side I suppose they have had Nordhaug come through as as possible contender for future Ardennes classics and maybe the likes of Lombardy.

Indeed. Sky & BMC.

Oh and Rabobank.

But that's a given nowadays.

inkyfingers

At least Sky have have got some good stage race results which sort of makes up for it, BMC have pretty much failed across the board.

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

At least Sky have have got some good stage race results which sort of makes up for it, BMC have pretty much failed across the board.

Yup.

And Rabobank .

iainf72

inkyfingers wrote:

At least Sky have have got some good stage race results which sort of makes up for it, BMC have pretty much failed across the board.

Well they did win Crit Intl and lead Trentino

And podium in some classics.

LangerDan

Rick Chasey wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Astana and Eurostar and Katusha are definitely the winners of the Ardenne.

BMC definitely the big losers.

Europcar? How? Out of the nine "podium" positions in the past week, they scored a big fat zero. Feck, even Pip managed a third and he's useless.

I think Europcar need to let Rolland off the leash and give them a few more options.

They won the Brabanste pijl ?

B-P isn't really "Ardennes", though, is it?

rick_chasey

LangerDan wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Astana and Eurostar and Katusha are definitely the winners of the Ardenne.

BMC definitely the big losers.

Europcar? How? Out of the nine "podium" positions in the past week, they scored a big fat zero. Feck, even Pip managed a third and he's useless.

I think Europcar need to let Rolland off the leash and give them a few more options.

They won the Brabanste pijl ?

B-P isn't really "Ardennes", though, is it?

I'd say it is :P but I can see what you mean.

calvjones

greasedscotsman wrote:

So come on then, what would you do? Stop whining, lets have some ideas man!

Maybe we could ban radios, TVs in the car and only allow the breakaway a chalkboard?


[/tinhat]

greasedscotsman

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

At least Sky have have got some good stage race results which sort of makes up for it, BMC have pretty much failed across the board.

Yup.

And Rabobank .

Wow, you really have it in for them this morning. Anyway, how can they have failed if you didn't expect them to win anything? What race did you think they would win?