Pros & cons of tubeless ???

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  • sigorman85
    sigorman85 Posts: 2,536
    wow this post has realy taken off!
    When i die I just hope the wife doesn't sell my stuff for what I told her I paid for it other wise someone will be getting a mega deal!!!


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  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    I think the biggest benefit would be increased grip from being able to run the tyre at a lower pressure without snakebiting

    For tubeless? It just doesn't work with some combos and pressures, corner hard and air belches out.
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  • agg25
    agg25 Posts: 619
    Was that running ghetto or using a nice wide tubeless rim with rim tape, sealant and tubeless tyre?
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    UST.
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  • agg25
    agg25 Posts: 619
    just the tyres? What was the width of the rims? You probably already know this but have read this is the most critical thing to stop the burping and to get the best out of a tubeless setup, as the tyres won't roll over a wider rim as much as a narrow one.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Full UST set up, Crossmax Enduro rims (19mm), 2.00 Tioga Red Phoenix at 25psi.
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  • agg25
    agg25 Posts: 619
    Thats pretty skinny, Flows are 28mm.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Well not really, is larger than a standard 717 which is 17mm internal, 23mm external (which is rated up to a 2.3 tyre) and is using a pretty thin tyre!

    A flow is 22.6mm internal, 28mm external.
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  • agg25
    agg25 Posts: 619
    22% wider or thereabouts probably makes quite a bit of difference, I suppose it depends on the bead of the tyre as well. Maybe certain combinations don't work that well together. I think that's part of the problem, there's so many different combinations of tyre/rim/setup that some people find it doesn't work, some find it does.

    I found this to be a very interesting read -
    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesd ... Burp-.html
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Flow is sorta a DH rim though - if you cant use tubeless on XC stuff then it's a bit of a sticking point! I don't need the weight of flows.

    But yep, certain combos seem worse than others, regardless of size.
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  • agg25
    agg25 Posts: 619
    My Flow wheelset are only 1580 grams, lighter than my DT Swiss PW1600's on my 100mm Cube XC racer. There is other wider options other than the Flow though. But that link I just posted explains everything a shite load better than I could.
  • YeehaaMcgee
    YeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    supersonic wrote:
    It just doesn't work with some combos and pressures, corner hard and air belches out.
    ...
    agg25 wrote:
    I suppose it depends on the bead of the tyre as well. Maybe certain combinations don't work that well together. I think that's part of the problem, there's so many different combinations of tyre/rim/setup that some people find it doesn't work, some find it does.

    Sometimes this place is like an echochamber :lol:
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  • agg25
    agg25 Posts: 619
    I swear it is...sometimes like an echochamber. This place.
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    agg25 wrote:
    My Flow wheelset are only 1580 grams, lighter than my DT Swiss PW1600's on my 100mm Cube XC racer. There is other wider options other than the Flow though. But that link I just posted explains everything a shite load better than I could.

    What build is that? I think your scales are broken ;)
  • agg25
    agg25 Posts: 619
    http://superlight-bikeparts.de/Tune-Tun ... fradsatz_1

    My mistake, it was 1500g :p
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    Interesting.

    For comparison with my build; same rims, comparable spoke weight, Tune hubs about 25g lighter (good luck with those!) Vs DT240's , yet the wheelset is somehow over 200g lighter?

    Hell, I even relaced my wheels with the newer Arch EX rims (400g Vs 470 for the Flows) & they are still heavier than the ones in the link.

    Maybe the 5 should have been a 7 ;)
  • simonp123
    simonp123 Posts: 490
    supersonic wrote:
    Flow is sorta a DH rim though - if you cant use tubeless on XC stuff then it's a bit of a sticking point! I don't need the weight of flows.

    They are advertised as an "all mountain" rim though I think they have been used dor DH, though I don't think this is advised by the manufacturers. I was advised by Stan's/NoTubes to use these for XC and trail riding for anyone over 15st.
    I wouldn't describe them as heavy for what they are.

    Edit: Having said that I now look and see they now do recommended it for DH too :oops:
  • mrmonkfinger
    mrmonkfinger Posts: 1,452
    supersonic wrote:
    Full UST set up, Crossmax Enduro rims (19mm), 2.00 Tioga Red Phoenix at 25psi.

    Probably of no interest to you now, but, I had (normal) 2.0 Red Phoenixes ghetto'd on Speeddisc AMs. No problems with burping or rolling. They inflated with a hand pump, too. AMs are 21mm internal.

    Lovely grippy tyres... with swiss cheese sidewalls you could tear with a spoon (or a large rock in my case). But great for XC duties.
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  • agg25
    agg25 Posts: 619
    Hob Nob wrote:
    Interesting.

    For comparison with my build; same rims, comparable spoke weight, Tune hubs about 25g lighter (good luck with those!) Vs DT240's , yet the wheelset is somehow over 200g lighter?

    Hell, I even relaced my wheels with the newer Arch EX rims (400g Vs 470 for the Flows) & they are still heavier than the ones in the link.

    Maybe the 5 should have been a 7 ;)

    I'll weigh them up next week when they arrive and show you the weight.
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    edited April 2012
    No need, I know the sum total of the parts is more than 1500g.

    You're a brave man going for Tune hubs too!
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    The Tune King/Kong hubs are incredibly light for X12 and 15mm set ups at about 320g for the PAIR! Add to that 940 for the rims and about 270g for cx rays and have a total of 1530g! 40g for alloy nipples and the weight of 1580g is pretty much as per listed weights of parts.

    But imagine that with Crests, would knock 250g off.
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  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    supersonic wrote:
    The Tune King/Kong hubs are incredibly light for X12 and 15mm set ups at about 320g for the PAIR! Add to that 940 for the rims and about 270g for cx rays and have a total of 1530g! 40g for alloy nipples and the weight of 1580g is pretty much as per listed weights of parts.

    But imagine that with Crests, would knock 250g off.

    Agreed, they are very light, but not 1500g light & that's assuming the weights are as stated. Along with Tune's legendary ability to fall apart at free will, it's certainly a different choice of wheelset.
  • agg25
    agg25 Posts: 619
    I've done the research into Tune King Kong hubs and most of the problems were with older models. There's plenty of threads about 240s falling apart as well, there will be on anything when there's thousands in production. Anyways, this is a tubeless discussion so probably should get back on track ;-)
  • baznav73
    baznav73 Posts: 111
    The whole tubeless thing is less of an advantage now with ust tyres getting replaced with the shit tubeless ready ones, when i ran ust i rarely got a puncture the sealant wouldn't seal but since changing to 29'er and there being no ust tyres available only crap tubeless ready ones i seem to get puncture pretty often that the sealent won't seal, and the sealant dries out after a couple of months in TL tyres.

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