Pros & cons of tubeless ???

sigorman85

i have seen a lot of people raving about tubeless tires to me it looks a pain to do if ya not 100 percent on it all
i guess it cuts down on the weight but then dont you have to have a steel beed tire any way to keep it pushed agains the rim to keep the air in on inflation? so thats no keeping the weight down realy ......am i missing the point here? and what do i need to do this if worth its while???

cooldad

Tubless tyres normally have kevlar beads, so no.

sigorman85

so what the big deal with them at the moment?

cooldad

Less chance of getting punctures, and can run lower pressures. And a lot of faffing around.
I use tubes and have never felt the urge to change, so I'm probably not the best person to comment.

stubs

Tried it and went back to tubes. Too much pissing about with compressors and fairy liquid for me. If they ever come up with a system that doesnt mean changing a tyre takes 3 hours then I might give it a go again. The pros are puncture resistance and a minute weight drop. I found I couldnt drop the pressures in my tyres because I kept smacking the rims on rocks so didnt gain any of the fabled extra grip some people whiffle about. If you get lots of thorns in your tyres well worth a try.

YeehaaMcgee

I'm with Stubs. Tried it, found it was a load of ffaff, and went back to tubes.
Hell, I didn't even notice any decrease in the amount of punctures - but I did notice an increase in the occurrence of having my tyres spray white goo all over me.

sigorman85

had my bike a year now with tubes in it. i ride 5 days a week to work and then some/most weekends off road had 2 punchers in just 700 miles so im lucky at the moment....so i will give the tubeless a miss i think

cooldad

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

I'm with Stubs. Tried it, found it was a load of ffaff, and went back to tubes.
Hell, I didn't even notice any decrease in the amount of punctures - but I did notice an increase in the occurrence of having my tyres spray white goo all over me.

Should stay off the bikeporn sites.

bjj.andy.w

Went "ghetto" tubeless and tbh I wish I did it years ago. Always like to run low pressures and the amount of nip punctures I had was a ball ache ( averaged 1 per ride). Not had a single puncture in over 18 months. Also running even lower pressures as well (23psi F, 25 R) so the traction has improved aswell. Yes it can be a faf to set up if you don't have access to an air line and compressor but once up they're great. May be not for you if your an habitual tyre swapper though.

bennett_346

I'd rather spend a few minutes on the trail fixing a puncture for the cost of a tube patch than spend £50 on valves, sealant and rim strips, pay extra for the tyres to be tubeless and then waste hours of my life faffing on sealing them.

Heck, i never even puncture with tubes.

Andy Dobson

I had an oppotunity last week to ride my Marin back to back with my tubed wheelset and a mates tubeless wheelset. I don't know about the "changing tyres" issues but the extra acceleration and handling feel I felt with the tubeless wheels was amazing. I can't say that grip was better or worse as we were using different tyres (I use kevlar UST triple compound Racing Ralph's for dry and Spech duel compound Enduro UST's for wet conditions but run both tubed).

I tend to run quite high pressures (usually 35-40 psi) and have found that I REALLY have to be committed in turns to get the grip where-as with the tubeless wheelset, I was running 25-28 psi and getting better feel and grip but climbs were harder and I did suffer my first puncture in 2 years with the tubeless.

I guess everything is a trade off one way or another.

sigorman85

seems to be a mixture here i guess its personal to what you prefer

cooldad

Andy Dobson wrote:

the extra acceleration and handling feel I felt with the tubeless wheels was amazing. I can't say that grip was better or worse as we were using different tyres

Andy Dobson wrote:

and I did suffer my first puncture in 2 years with the tubeless.

Er so was the difference the lack of tubes or the different tyres?

and er Er, just er.

bjj.andy.w

I'd rather spend a few minutes on the trail fixing a puncture for the cost of a tube patch than spend £50 on valves, sealant and rim strips, pay extra for the tyres to be tubeless and then waste hours of my life faffing on sealing them.

Heck, i never even puncture with tubes.

Total cost of my tubeless conversion ? £19
Stans sealent - £12:99
20' bmx inner tubes x2 - £6
Used the same rims and ( non ust ) tyres that where originally on my bike.

bennett_346

bjj.andy.w wrote:

I'd rather spend a few minutes on the trail fixing a puncture for the cost of a tube patch than spend £50 on valves, sealant and rim strips, pay extra for the tyres to be tubeless and then waste hours of my life faffing on sealing them.

Heck, i never even puncture with tubes.

Total cost of my tubeless conversion ? £19
Stans sealent - £12:99
20' bmx inner tubes x2 - £6
Used the same rims and ( non ust ) tyres that where originally on my bike.

Remember that sealant needs topped up a few times a year and the cost suddenly does reach £50, whereas the cost of two tubes is less than a tenner and they can last you the best part of 5 years each if you look after them.

I'm not saying tubeless is a bad idea, im saying it is an expensive idea.

YeehaaMcgee

Andy Dobson wrote:

the extra acceleration and handling feel I felt with the tubeless wheels was amazing.

Andy Dobson wrote:

I tend to run quite high pressures (usually 35-40 psi) and have found that I REALLY have to be committed in turns to get the grip where-as with the tubeless wheelset, I was running 25-28 psi and getting better feel and grip

Contradict yourself much?

I don't understand how anyone can run tyres with pressures that low - any lower than around 32-34 PSI, and I end up smashing the wheelrims against rocks when riding anything remotely rocky.

weescott

The benefit of Tubeless is no more pinch flats meaning you don't have to run as high a pressure to avoid them. Any weight saving is just a bonus but not the reason to go tubeless.

The down side is tyre compatibility, high set up costs (unless ghetto), and the different tubeless standards which confuses a lot of people.

sigorman85

whats the ghetto set up then? this could be a laugh

bjj.andy.w

Ghetto tubeless :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRM7gq1f ... ata_player

cat_with_no_tail

Those saying it was a faff, out of curiosity, were you doing a proper tubeless setup (proper tubeless rims, tape and tyres) or were you ghettoing it?

I switched to tubeless about a year ago and tbh havent looked back since. I just prefer it, mostly due to the no more pu*ct*res thing, but I do save a fair bit of weight on my setup as the tape weighs less than the old rimstrips and the sealant weighs less than the heavy-duty tubes I was using to try (and fail) to not get any pinch flats.

I didn't find it a fuss to set up either. Sure, getting the tyre on the rim can be a bit of a ballache, but it still only takes a couple of minutes. And once it's on, you stick in your sealant, inflate with a trackpump (never used a compressor for it) to seal it, then you're on your way.

As said above though, if you're the sort of person who is always changing tyres, it's probably going to get irritating. Sealant is a pita! If you're using it, even if you are REALLY careful and are certain you've not touched it, you're still going to end up with it everywhere. It's a bit like honey in that respect.

bennett_346

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Andy Dobson wrote:

the extra acceleration and handling feel I felt with the tubeless wheels was amazing.

Andy Dobson wrote:

I tend to run quite high pressures (usually 35-40 psi) and have found that I REALLY have to be committed in turns to get the grip where-as with the tubeless wheelset, I was running 25-28 psi and getting better feel and grip

Contradict yourself much?

Where was the contradiction there?

Tom Barton

I bought a bike with XT tubeless rims and tubeless tyres from the outset - so far more straightforward than converting/ghetto solutions.

For me they are a revelation! Dramatic reduction in punctures. I mainly used to get pinch flats as opposed to thorns/nails etc when using tubes and like everyone would get good days and bad days (I getting 3 one memorable ride...)

I don't use gunk (partly cos I'm allergic to latex and alot of the products use latex) but its also a bloody mess when i like to switch tyres out depending on conditions/trails. But my setup lets me get away with it and depending on the tyre and how well I seat it on the rim the air loss is generally slow - a few days to a couple of weeks. Obviously, not using gunk I'm limited to tubeless tyres only, can't use the porous ones without the gunk. But generally the choice nowadays is pretty good.

Tubeless tyres are stiff and can sometimes be extremely hard work to get on/off the rim. I have broken many tyre levers and carry at least five in my pack if i need to repair a tyre (trail side i pull the valve out and stick a tube in and fix at home).

I've had one tyre rip (managed with a tube to get me home) and 2 pinch flats (with maxxis lust tyres which are thinner and i was pushing my luck with the pressures in 2 and a bit years - riding 2-3 times a week up until last year where my riding has been reduced by uni masters and a baby!


Pros: Durability, fit and forget, can run slightly lower pressures if you wish, puncture resistance. Not convinced on rolling resistance but certainly the tyres with the strong sidewalls corner better when your pushing it.

Cons: Hard to seat, gunk is messy, need to carry more repair kit (just in case), tyres tend to be more expensive, less choice in tyres overall.

Advice: I probably wouldnt be bothered to go ghetto - too much faff and work, but if your going to buy new wheels and tubeless ready ones are on your list, they are the best/easiest solution and work well at the pros mentioned

weescott

Tom Barton wrote:

Tubeless tyres are stiff

Some have stiff sidewalls, some don't. eg: Nobby Nic UST. Tough sidewall. I have never used sealant in the 18months + I have had it. WTB Weirwolf UST. Needs sealant. Thin sidewall.

Durability isn't a Pro as it depends on the tyre. The TL Schwalbe tyres are certainly not any more durable than conventional tyres.

I don't carry any more repair kit than I used to either. Just 2 tubes as usual.

YeehaaMcgee

Cat With No Tail wrote:

Those saying it was a faff, out of curiosity, were you doing a proper tubeless setup (proper tubeless rims, tape and tyres) or were you ghettoing it?

I used Stan's rim strips, but still needed a compressor to seat the tyres. I may well try again someday, but If I do, it will only ever be with tubeless-ready rims, and UST tyres.

sigorman85

some brilliant info here

benpinnick

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Andy Dobson wrote:

the extra acceleration and handling feel I felt with the tubeless wheels was amazing.

Andy Dobson wrote:

I tend to run quite high pressures (usually 35-40 psi) and have found that I REALLY have to be committed in turns to get the grip where-as with the tubeless wheelset, I was running 25-28 psi and getting better feel and grip

Contradict yourself much?

I don't understand how anyone can run tyres with pressures that low - any lower than around 32-34 PSI, and I end up smashing the wheelrims against rocks when riding anything remotely rocky.

Yeehaa, We dont have rocks. We live in Surrey / Berkshire where the largest trail obstacle you need to roll over is a dead pensioner.

YeehaaMcgee

Ah. I see. Still, I would have guessed old, dead bones would be splintered, much like flint!

dan man

tubeless all day for me have two sets of weels one tubeless and one tube works grate for me

supersonic

I've gone back to tubes. This low pressure thing I don't get, I lower the pressure and they just belch air out in hard cornering. The rolling resistance improvement is also a myth IMO. Only some set ups save any weight, carrying a spare tube on the trail defeats the object for me. So tubes for me!

The Northern Monkey

Tubes. Always have, always will.

Still don't get the tubeless thing.

YeehaaMcgee

I miss my old luminous pink latex DH innertubes