Pros & cons of tubeless ???

cooldad

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

I miss my old luminous pink latex DH innertubes

The ones that match your lingerie?

sanchez89

i prefer tubeless just because i dont have to worry about running pressure low and snakebiting the tube. or worry when i get home with a few thorns jammed in the tread.

and, so far at least, i have not dinged the rim while plowing over the rocks/trail obstacles at speed with pressures in the 25-30 psi range.

iv got the tyre changing thing down to an art now aswell. but hopefully nobby nics will be good for me as all year round rubber.

Shackster

I was sceptical before I did it, but am a total convert now. The sight of people changing tubes repeatedly on last years BHF South Downs Way rides, as I rolled merrily past, was enough to convince me I'd done the right thing. I rode 270 miles on that (notorious for punctures) route in training and on both events and had no punctures. I don't really care about the supposed reduction in weight or rolling resistance - that's just marketing in my eyes. Average folk aren't going to notice.

Even as a convert though I can see that the trouble with it is you can't guarantee how your particular combination of wheel and tyre is going to work, unless you use a full UST set up. People like me who have got lucky think it's the bees' knees, others that haven't, think it's a lot of faff and not worth it.

Maybe somewhere online there's a table of rims versus tyres, and the likelihood of success/faff/failure! Or we could start one here in the tech FAQs.

For what it's worth, I've just put some Tubeless Ready Nobby Nic Evo's on ZTR Arch EX (with Stan's new 'BST' feature) - bit tight to get on, but inflate with no trouble at all (literally as easy as a tube) - not even fast pumping required with a track pump, didn't use any soapy water either. The wheels came with stan's wide yellow tape preinstalled (from moonglu) and all they needed was a valve stem. No air loss whatsoever. Zero faff. Scared the beejeesus out of me though as the beads snapped into place

sigorman85

very tempted to give it ago but i will want to get it right in the first few attempts lol

butcher of bakersfield

I'm quite surprised by this thread. I thought most people would've considered it the de-facto standard looking into the future (like carbon). I thought it was only sceptics like me that still rode with tubes.

sanchez89

Shackster wrote:

Maybe somewhere online there's a table of rims versus tyres, and the likelihood of success/faff/failure! Or we could start one here in the tech FAQs.

For what it's worth, I've just put some Tubeless Ready Nobby Nic Evo's on ZTR Arch EX (with Stan's new 'BST' feature) - bit tight to get on, but inflate with no trouble at all (literally as easy as a tube) - not even fast pumping required with a track pump, didn't use any soapy water either. The wheels came with stan's wide yellow tape preinstalled (from moonglu) and all they needed was a valve stem. No air loss whatsoever. Zero faff. Scared the beejeesus out of me though as the beads snapped into place

i agree with the FAQ guide suggestion, would be more than willing to add my little tyre experiences.

i tried a pair of those new TR nobbys on my Crests last week. the rear went on dead easy by hand and inflated fine.

the front was super tight and even though inflated straight away went down overnight, upon inflation the next morning it blew off the rim and snapped/distorted the kevlar bead.

i do think my rims are slightly different sizes, i.e the rear is slightly smaller than front, due to the other experiences of people on the internets saying the newer TR Schwalbe's are not compatitble with Crest rims.

let us know if you have any problems with them.

bennett_346

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

I'm quite surprised by this thread. I thought most people would've considered it the de-facto standard looking into the future (like carbon). I thought it was only sceptics like me that still rode with tubes.

I won't be moving to tubeless until i can no longer buy tubes. Same with 29ers.

baser

Just put my second set of Continental Mountain King Supersonics on my Stans Crest wheelset. The second set were more difficult to get inflated than the first but the extra effort was rewarded today. I was out on a club ride when we came across some barbed wire on the trail que most of the riders having to change at least one tube if not two. I just spun the wheel and the tyres hissed and then sealed.

The Supersonics are not an ideal tyre for tubeless as the side walls are made mostly of air rather than rubber. The other thing the tubeless conversion adds is trail feel, it's difficult to describe but you get a real feel for the ground under your tyres.

sigorman85

724 miles in 10 months mixture or riding 2 punchers so whats the point in tubeless lol

The Northern Monkey

Plus, I know of people that ride with 2 spare tubes on each ride as they've had occasions when the sealant doesn't do its job.
Defies any point in tubeless! IMO, its a solution to a problem that wasn't there.

supersonic

Do they really roll better too? Would love to see some blindfold tests on this.

cooldad

Blindfold tests down some evil gnarrly singletrack - I'd pay to see that.

The Northern Monkey

cooldad wrote:

Blindfold tests down some evil gnarrly singletrack - I'd pay to see that.

+1!

supersonic

Lol, would be intersting though. Give to a rider, let them guess whether tubed or sealantified.

baser

I carried a spare tube all of last year, the same one! Have now taken it out of the pack and don't carry one anymore!

I have only had one puncture that would not self seal, I used a puncture repair patch on the inside of the tyre and it went straight back up.

I do think you can tell the difference in trail feel, not with every tyre, I have a set of mud X's which I can't tell the difference. I think the conti's feel different because they are such a thin tyre and so are more supple.

supersonic

I'll admit it must have a lot to do with the tube - I think if you put a 350g DH tube in there, you could feel it!

The Northern Monkey

If it was lighter (which its not) I could possibly see the point for out and out xc types.

Does the fluid not move about in the tyre? I could imagine that being quite odd?

supersonic

It does, but is not easy to feel. My rudimentary physics knowledge would suggest that it uses more energy up than a tube though to rotate.

cooldad

I carried one spare tube all of last year, the same one. I still have it in my pack, along with a puncture kit.
I have had no punctures during this time.
The last one was August 2010 - too tired to unweight over a sharp edged slap, I knew it was going to happen before it actually punctured.
No problem as I watch GP's so my 'pitstop' was 3.5 seconds. (The time might be a lie).

sigorman85

baser do you ride up at boxly woods? i used to live in lordswood and used to go up there all the time every time i went i got a puncher with out fail

baser

Yes mate i ride Boxley woods, Blue Bell Hill, and most of the North downs. Can be pretty horrible for punctures especially if the hedges have been cut.

sigorman85

whats boxley like nowa days havent been up there for a few years

baser

Much the same, best new local ride is the new cycling park in Gravesend, by the A2. That will be a he'll of a course when it's finished.

Hob Nob

I use it for my trail bike, but not DH.

It's lighter, even if you use a superlight ~100g tube, which are fairly useless.

No punctures, no faff. Run them from 30psi upwards & no issues at all. Shame they don't work for DH where lower pressures = rolling them off the rim.

YeehaaMcgee

Tubeless front tyre rolled off the rim for me at Coed y Brenin. I guess I must be super rad gnarcore xx or something

Tom Barton

@ SS - personally, I've used both alot I've never been able to tell the difference in rolling resistance. That includes regular HRs on tubes and LUST HRs.

For me its reducing puctures when I used to get lots. Now its a rarity so for me at least its worth the extra work to setup (which once your used to the stiffer beads) is not that much.

YeehaaMcgee

bennett_346 wrote:

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Contradict yourself much?

Where was the contradiction there?

Doh! quoted the wrong part :oops:

What I meant was this... first two lines(I think I've got it right this time)

Andy Dobson wrote:

the extra acceleration and handling feel I felt with the tubeless wheels was amazing.
I can't say that grip was better or worse as we were using different tyres

I tend to run quite high pressures (usually 35-40 psi) and have found that I REALLY have to be committed in turns to get the grip where-as with the tubeless wheelset, I was running 25-28 psi and getting better feel and grip

High pressures will generally lead to less grip anyway - but you're comparing different tyres, different pressures AND different setups, so it becomes a pointless comparison.

bennett_346

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Contradict yourself much?

Where was the contradiction there?

Doh! quoted the wrong part :oops:

What I meant was this... first two lines(I think I've got it right this time)

Andy Dobson wrote:

the extra acceleration and handling feel I felt with the tubeless wheels was amazing.
I can't say that grip was better or worse as we were using different tyres

I tend to run quite high pressures (usually 35-40 psi) and have found that I REALLY have to be committed in turns to get the grip where-as with the tubeless wheelset, I was running 25-28 psi and getting better feel and grip

High pressures will generally lead to less grip anyway - but you're comparing different tyres, different pressures AND different setups, so it becomes a pointless comparison.

Ah well that is a pretty major contradiction yes!

I think a lot of the tubeless thing is placebo, whether that works for you or not boils down to how much more confidence it gives you.

YeehaaMcgee

The placebo effect is a real phenomenon mind, so even if it turns out that you ride better because of some placebo effect - then hey, it works for you, right?
Just be careful when shouting from the rooftops about the latest and greatest, when people might get annoyed at the encouragement to spend their money on something they see little benefit from

bennett_346

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

The placebo effect is a real phenomenon mind, so even if it turns out that you ride better because of some placebo effect - then hey, it works for you, right?

Yeah that's what i was thinking. If it gives you more confidence, rational or not, then that can't be a bad thing either way!