OT: Belgian Beer

jimmythecuckoo

I recently went to Amsterdam and my hopes for beer weren't high based on previous experience.

But they have started to get their act together in the style of their near neighbours.

A couple really stood out from Gulpener and La Trappe.

They will be well worth looking up...

https://www.gulpener.nl/
https://www.latrappetrappist.com/en/

bobmcstuff

There are some good beer bars in Amsterdam, if you look for them.

I once arrived early for a stag do (just the way the flights worked out) and spent about 3 hours chatting about beer to the barman in an underground Belgian-style beer bar. He kept bringing out other beers to try - I was smashed by the time everyone else arrived. Was the best part of the weekend, I've never spent so much time in Irish bars...

jimmythecuckoo

The ups and downs of Amsterdam...

You'll be telling me you slept on Botel next

No_Ta_Doctor

So, a trip to Brussels planned for May (yeah, virus might cancel stuff). Anyone done any brewery visits nearish? I've visited Cantillon a couple of times, but was wondering about the other lambic breweries.

bobmcstuff

Petrus in honour of this weekends' cancelled races...

orraloon

I have just opened a Hommelbier, one of my v few remaining Belgian beers in stock; planned visit and restock at end of this month is of course a no go.

Santé.

No_Ta_Doctor

I've got a 75cl Tripel Karmeliete in the fridge that was earmarked to Flanders....
Been getting druaght Duchess de Bourgogne in bottles take-outs from my local bar.

Thinking I might stock up from here (another local bar's webshop). Decent selection, what would you go for from it?

https://sw62911.mywebshop.io/shop/10-belgiske-oel/

orraloon

Some rather expensive beers on there!

Any of the Trappists, can't go wrong. St Bernardus Abt.

I've seen the Westvleteren 12 on sale in UK at £45! Eh no, I'll go get my own, when one is allowed to etc etc

blazing_saddles

orraloon said:

I have just opened a Hommelbier, one of my v few remaining Belgian beers in stock; planned visit and restock at end of this month is of course a no go.

Santé.

Me too.
I am down to just a few heavy hitters such as the St. Bernardus Abt 12 you mention.
A couple each Rochefort 8 and 10's and that's about it.
Have had to resort to buying Leffe and the better option, Duvel from Tesco.

orraloon

😊 I have 2 Duvel (purchased at Belgian prices) left, plus 1 Houblon Chouffe and 1 St Bernardus 6 otherwise it is the 'heavy hitters' as you say, the ones I treat with respect and remember that they could last for years.

That policy in Jan and Feb of drink down the stocks so the cases will empty and ready for an April refresh. Buggrit.

jimmythecuckoo

Does anyone else not get Chouffe.

I have tried it a few times and it just does nothing for me like at Bornhem or Affligem would.

nickice

blazing_saddles said:

orraloon said:

I have just opened a Hommelbier, one of my v few remaining Belgian beers in stock; planned visit and restock at end of this month is of course a no go.

Santé.

Me too.
I am down to just a few heavy hitters such as the St. Bernardus Abt 12 you mention.
A couple each Rochefort 8 and 10's and that's about it.
Have had to resort to buying Leffe and the better option, Duvel from Tesco.

You never 'resort' to buying Duvel. Leffe is actually decent and is exceptionally good value. I've recently started buying it again.

bobmcstuff

I guess it's a slightly different style, from memory a bit lighter?

I don't really drink a lot of those beers in general, dubbels/tripels/belgian strong pale type beers. If I'm drinking Belgian it's typically a saison (e.g., dupont), lambic/kriek (e.g., anything from 3 Fonteinen or Cantillon), or a Flanders red (e.g., Duchesse du Bourgogne). I do like an Orval too, which I guess is between an Abbey beer and a saison or something (has brettanomyces).

If I am drinking something as strong as a tripel it's normally an Imperial stout from somewhere else entirely...

Time for a beer order I think

bobmcstuff

Sorted

jimmythecuckoo

nickice said:

You never 'resort' to buying Duvel. Leffe is actually decent and is exceptionally good value. I've recently started buying it again.

I looked at in on a beer menu in the square in Oudenaarde a couple of years ago and the waiter was horrified !

I like the Ruby, its tastes good from draught.

No_Ta_Doctor

I'm not a Chouffe fan either. Think it's a bit too spiced for me.
Duvel is legitimately one of the best beers in the world.
Leffe is drinkable if there aren't other alternatives.

Like Bob, I'm a fan of the lambics and Old Flemish Red/Brown styles, though I do also go for the powerful blondes (Westmalle Tripel for example).

All the darker ales I tend to swerve, I find them a bit cloying.

My local craft beer bar dedicated one of its taps to imported Flemish Reds (Duchess, Rodenbach of various types). Can't wait for them to open again.

jimmythecuckoo

Have any of you guys and gals got the Beerwulf sub compact?

I am considering getting one just to serve Affligem and Delerium on draught in my garden.

No_Ta_Doctor

jimmythecuckoo said:

Have any of you guys and gals got the Beerwulf sub compact?

I am considering getting one just to serve Affligem and Delerium on draught in my garden.

Holds 2 litre kegs. Is that enough to be worth it?

Plus, The Affligem seems to cost TEN QUID for two litres, which seems a touch pricey unless you're actually at a bar.

Mad_Malx

On the assumption that I live long enough for bars to reopen, are any of these any good as draught?

British beer is nearly always so much better as cask, but just about all my Belgies have been bottles.

No_Ta_Doctor

Mad_Malx said:

On the assumption that I live long enough for bars to reopen, are any of these any good as draught?

British beer is nearly always so much better as cask, but just about all my Belgies have been bottles.

Depends on the beer I guess. Anything that's bottle conditioned will be better in bottles, and may improve with a couple of years in a cool dark place. Affligem and Leffe aren't bottle conditioned, so I doubt you'd notice much difference - depending on what the keg setup was. Keykegs - used a lot in craft beer bars - use external pressure to deliver the beer, so it's never in contact with the delivery gas. The beer is in a plastic bag inside the keg, and the keg is pressurised. Standard kegs pump gas into the keg itself to keep the beer under pressure, and some of it will dissolve into the beer. Guinness, for example, uses a nitrogen /CO2 mix and the nitrogen is what causes the very fine smooth bubbles. You'll see similar at craft beer bars where they'll advertise "nitro stout". Keg beer *can* be served very fizzy, where bottled beer tends to be a little less so.

Cask ales are obviously hand pumped without and pressurisation, the beer is flat and the head formed by the tap itself, which mixes air and beer together. There are probably a load of settings or tap styles to give the difference between head styles in the North & South.

Anyway, the bottle/keg differences will depend a lot on where the bubbles actually come from in what you're drinking. Are they from natural fermentation, as with a gueuze or champagne or some of the bottle conditioned beers? Or are they added from a C02 cannister, either at bottling or pulling a draft pint? For my money, most of the Belgian beers - the quality ones at any rate - are better from the bottle.

bobmcstuff

Yeah, I'd think most decent bottle conditioned Belgians will be better from a bottle.

Some of them you can't buy any other way anyway. Gueuze and lambics rely on the bottle fermentation, like champagne. I expect some of the other good Belgian ones are only sold that way too although since I don't drink a lot of those beers I have never tried to find out.

Had a Duchesse du Bougogne and the Kernel Saison yesterday (OK so the Kernel isn't Belgian, but whatever).

Mad_Malx

Every day a school day!
Thanks for the responses both. Knew about keg & Guinness, but the keykeg is a completely new thing to me, and interesting.
I’ll keep supporting my local microbrewery for the time being, who have obviously lost all their pub trade, but picked up a lot of locals like me for home delivery. I’ll then try a few more Belgian bottles when I get to the shops more.

the lambics kreiks and geuze are all a bit too weird to me, but I do like duvel and karmaleit triples.

No_Ta_Doctor

Mad_Malx said:

Every day a school day!
Thanks for the responses both. Knew about keg & Guinness, but the keykeg is a completely new thing to me, and interesting.
I’ll keep supporting my local microbrewery for the time being, who have obviously lost all their pub trade, but picked up a lot of locals like me for home delivery. I’ll then try a few more Belgian bottles when I get to the shops more.

the lambics kreiks and geuze are all a bit too weird to me, but I do like duvel and karmaleit triples.

The keykeg is very new, but seems to be standard for craft brewers. Not exactly environmentally friendly though, as they're one-time use and lots of plastic. :-( Better for the beer though, I reckon.

My local is opening tomorrow - the advantages of a half competent Danish government handling things. They've been open for take-out the whole time, and I've done by best to keep them in business during lockdown. A hard job, but somebody has to do it... They were pretty much only selling DK brews (supporting their local brewers!) but opened a UK keg or two for me. Been trying to keep two national craft brewing industries viable... hic.

bobmcstuff

Keykegs are supposed to be environmentally better in some ways, they are recyclable and partly made of recycled plastic also. The big driver though is that these days brewers are shipping their beers all over the world, so it is often not possible to return the kegs, which means steel kegs are either not returned or you just can't ship keg beer. They're also a lot lighter so they result less CO2 during shipping.

No_Ta_Doctor

bobmcstuff said:

Keykegs are supposed to be environmentally better in some ways, they are recyclable and partly made of recycled plastic also. The big driver though is that these days brewers are shipping their beers all over the world, so it is often not possible to return the kegs, which means steel kegs are either not returned or you just can't ship keg beer. They're also a lot lighter so they result less CO2 during shipping.

Good points.

nickice

jimmythecuckoo said:

nickice said:

You never 'resort' to buying Duvel. Leffe is actually decent and is exceptionally good value. I've recently started buying it again.

I looked at in on a beer menu in the square in Oudenaarde a couple of years ago and the waiter was horrified !

I like the Ruby, its tastes good from draught.

I have never met a Belgian waiter or waitress who could give that much of a sh*t about what someone orders. Especially as a lot of Belgians drink Jupiler.

RichN95.

nickice said:

I have never met a Belgian waiter or waitress who could give that much of a sh*t about what someone orders. Especially as a lot of Belgians drink Jupiler.

A waitress in Brugge told me that I didn't want waste my time with Rodenbach. She was right.

bobmcstuff

I quite like Rodenbach. Sounds like the waitress just didn't like sours...

For my money though Duchesse du Bourgogne is possibly a bit better.

No_Ta_Doctor

I prefer the Rodenbach to the Duchess, but they're both excellent. The Rodenbach not quite so sweet and the oak is a little more prominent.

My FRESHLY OPENED TODAY local bar has Rodenbach Alexander on - it's steeped on bitter cherries, so basically an old red version of a kriek. Very nice.

RichN95.

I think the waitress sensed I wanted something stronger