Panic buying

Pokerface

Jez mon wrote:

It's extra, as in the spending wouldn't have happened within this qtr otherwise.

Ah I see. So basically this quarter ends on Saturday? So I was correct - it's just shifting spending forward a few days? People filling this week instead of next, etc. Just makes 'this quarter' look better on the books...

alihisgreat

Pokerface wrote:

How can this possibly have raised an 'extra £32 million'? Surely people just filled up earlier than they normally would. Everyone didn't go out and drive an extra 300 miles today. It money spent today that would have been spent in the coming days anyway. It's not 'extra' money.

You're forgetting the extra driving done whilst people are searching for a petrol station that actually has fuel.

But I wasn't really sure about this either.. as an economist I should probably be able to work it out?! It just seems like an inter-temporal thing to me -> so you're right... its just carrying round next week's petrol in the tank.


There will be extra sales of petrol cans though.. and the extra weight in the car has to count for something.. however small that may be.

Kenjaja1

Pokerface wrote:

How can this possibly have raised an 'extra £32 million'? Surely people just filled up earlier than they normally would. Everyone didn't go out and drive an extra 300 miles today. It money spent today that would have been spent in the coming days anyway. It's not 'extra' money.

You are quite right

It is also true that, perceiving problems obtaining petrol in the coming days, many people will be frugal with fuel. The net result may well be an extra £32 million revenue on one day - followed by decreases in following days and a slight decrease over the whole period.

There are countless ways to view this problem. Here's a frinstance...
My tax pounds (and yours as well) have been used in recent years to 'influence' politics in the Middle East. Kicking Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait, Kicking Saddam Hussein out of the top job in Iraq (and making sure he could not reapply), encouraging the overthrow of Muammar Gaddaffi and now encouraging the overthrow of Bashar al-Assad in Syria.

When you consider the shed-loads of money we have contributed to getting our point across to assorted countries, I feel that a few bob to resolve a domestic industrial dispute involving a few drivers would get us much better value for money. (Whether the money is used to buy off the drivers, to break their strike or resolve the issue in some other way).

In fairness, I suppose I have to admit that they are very different issues. Sorting out the tanker driver dispute would have a beneficial effect on the supply of petroleum products. The assorted Middle Eastern escapades had nothing whatever to do with oil - as the politicians kept reminding us.

Yeah! Right! :roll:

I still agree with previous posts about the lunacy of the current panic buying. It just goes to show that the herd instinct is not confined to mindless cows or silly sheep. It seems as though some of those genes survive in us at the top of the super intelligent primate hierarchy. :oops:

wishitwasallflat

I passed a garage on my way home from work (Darlington back road just off A66) and it was empty and had fuel. My wife refilled (tank was empty so just routine) at Sainsburys in Bishop Aukland yesterday evening with minimal ques - so is this panic a phenomena of the south, are we so ingrained up here to distrust tories that it hasn't reached us or were we just lucky?

OffTheBackAdam

A good ploy by tanker drivers.
Rake in a load of overtime, to fill the empty garages' tanks!

pdstsp

Not just the South - queues round the block here in sunny scouseland. My office is next to a small (2 pump) petrol station which charges top dollar and the queue stretches way up the road. Lots of old dears who drive 1000 miles per annum in a micra!! There have been lots of near fights when people have pushed in to the queue and we now have a semi-permanent police presence. Quite entertaining - in a watching chimps eat their own poo sort of way!!

mudcow007

wishitwasallflat wrote:

I passed a garage on my way home from work (Darlington back road just off A66) and it was empty and had fuel. My wife refilled (tank was empty so just routine) at Sainsburys in Bishop Aukland yesterday evening with minimal ques - so is this panic a phenomena of the south, are we so ingrained up here to distrust tories that it hasn't reached us or were we just lucky?

nope i had to drive 40-odd miles last night to find fuel...all were empty

my mrs just rang though an said she filled up in Shell without any fuss this morning though

ilm_zero7

Stanley222 wrote:

Francis Maude should be sacked for causing all this bollocks! :evil:

no the tanker drivers should be sacked - kick them out - with the Stanstead airport baggage handlers (easter strike) and the tube drivers (olympic strike) - selfish greed and maximum public and country impact/disgrace

Peddle Up!

ILM Zero7 wrote:

Stanley222 wrote:

Francis Maude should be sacked for causing all this bollocks! :evil:

no the tanker drivers should be sacked - kick them out - with the Stanstead airport baggage handlers (easter strike) and the tube drivers (olympic strike) - selfish greed and maximum public and country impact/disgrace

And the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Deport 'em all. :roll:

rolf_f

Hmmmm, have to get to Ripon this evening and I'm pretty sure I don't have much fuel though I may be able to get there on the vapour. I have seen small queues but I am concerned that it could be a bother tonight so I'll probably have to leave a little early because I don't do queues.

Basically though, anyone who can't put more than half a tank in needs their licence revoking because anyone who has had a frontal lobotomy shouldn't be on the road. Why so many retards?.......

evil_breakfast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-17560534

!st casualty of this shambles methinks.

A woman suffered serious burns when petrol ignited as she was decanting it in the kitchen of her York home because her daughter had run out of fuel.
The woman, who is in her 40s, suffered 40% burns in the accident in the Acomb area of the city on Thursday.
She has been taken to the burns unit at Pinderfields Hospital.
A fire service spokesman said: "Her daughter asked her mum for petrol because she had run out. The cooker was on and the fumes ignited."
The woman was treated by ambulance personnel in her kitchen before being taken to Pinderfields.
Her condition is not known but a North Yorkshire Fire Service spokesman described the burns as severe.
Two firefighters wearing breathing apparatus extinguished the fire in the kitchen and removed the remaining petrol.
A North Yorkshire Fire Service spokesman said: "Members of the public should take extreme care when handling and storing petrol and be aware of the risks associated with incorrect use and storage of fuel.
"Never bring petrol inside your home. If you do smell petrol fumes in a garage or outbuilding ventilate the area and make sure nobody smokes or turns electrical switches on or off. The slightest spark could cause an explosion."

nice one francis.
tw@t

bompington

Peddle Up! wrote:

ILM Zero7 wrote:

Stanley222 wrote:

Francis Maude should be sacked for causing all this bollocks! :evil:

no the tanker drivers should be sacked - kick them out - with the Stanstead airport baggage handlers (easter strike) and the tube drivers (olympic strike) - selfish greed and maximum public and country impact/disgrace

And the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Deport 'em all. :roll:

Except the Tolpuddle martyrs weren't striking for the right to improve their average £45K salary, were they?

Limburger

LangerDan wrote:

It will all calm down after the first putz manages to melt his own face off while trying to dispense petrol from plastic milk bottles.

Oh the foreboding was there.

In corroberration of LangerDans rapier like insight I would like to present exhibit A, you honour.

Poor unfortunate in York

Edit - too slow, dammit re. evil_breakfast

LangerDan

Limburger wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

It will all calm down after the first putz manages to melt his own face off while trying to dispense petrol from plastic milk bottles.

Oh the foreboding was there.

In corroberration of LangerDans rapier like insight I would like to present exhibit A, you honour.

Poor unfortunate in York

Not anything I'd take any pleasure in, TBH.

Many years ago, I remember an article stating that it only took 10mls of petrol - thats two teaspoons full - to cause permanent facial disfigurement. That - and attending a safety demonstration fire of several hundred litres of fuel at an oil refinery's training station - tended to focus the mind. I hope it doesn't take any more incidents like that in York for the message to get through.

evil_breakfast

Limburger wrote:

Edit - too slow, dammit re. evil_breakfast

8)

Pokerface

I've just figured out where the extra £32million n revenue has come from. It's from people impulse-buying chocolate bars and chewing gum while waiting in line to pay for their fuel!!


(On a more pertinent note - as of lunch-time today, I could only find one petrol station in Macclesfield that had unleaded fuel - out of 4 that I checked. And due to a snafu this morning involving me driving 2 hours back and forth to the velodrome only to discover it's closed, I was one of the idiots queued up to buy said fuel as I actually needed some.)

alihisgreat

evil_breakfast wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-17560534

!st casualty of this shambles methinks.

A woman suffered serious burns when petrol ignited as she was decanting it in the kitchen of her York home because her daughter had run out of fuel.
The woman, who is in her 40s, suffered 40% burns in the accident in the Acomb area of the city on Thursday.
She has been taken to the burns unit at Pinderfields Hospital.
A fire service spokesman said: "Her daughter asked her mum for petrol because she had run out. The cooker was on and the fumes ignited."
The woman was treated by ambulance personnel in her kitchen before being taken to Pinderfields.
Her condition is not known but a North Yorkshire Fire Service spokesman described the burns as severe.
Two firefighters wearing breathing apparatus extinguished the fire in the kitchen and removed the remaining petrol.
A North Yorkshire Fire Service spokesman said: "Members of the public should take extreme care when handling and storing petrol and be aware of the risks associated with incorrect use and storage of fuel.
"Never bring petrol inside your home. If you do smell petrol fumes in a garage or outbuilding ventilate the area and make sure nobody smokes or turns electrical switches on or off. The slightest spark could cause an explosion."

nice one francis.
tw@t

Its not a politicians fault.. yes he did give out the wrong advice..

but you've got to ask how stupid someone has to be to think that sloshing petrol around in an enclosed space with a heat source is a good idea.



on the plus side i got some petrol this morning.. the fuel light was on and i actually needed some -> had to get it from the local garage though.. paid £15 more than i would have at Tescos.

MaxwellBygraves

bompington wrote:

Peddle Up! wrote:

ILM Zero7 wrote:

Stanley222 wrote:

Francis Maude should be sacked for causing all this bollocks! :evil:

no the tanker drivers should be sacked - kick them out - with the Stanstead airport baggage handlers (easter strike) and the tube drivers (olympic strike) - selfish greed and maximum public and country impact/disgrace

And the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Deport 'em all. :roll:

Except the Tolpuddle martyrs weren't striking for the right to improve their average £45K salary, were they?

Neither are the tanker drivers. They are considering a strike over working conditions, not wages. No strike has yet occured.

Pokerface

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

on the plus side i got some petrol this morning.. the fuel light was on and i actually needed some -> had to get it from the local garage though.. paid £15 more than i would have at Tescos.

Tesco is usually AT MOST 3p a litre cheaper than your local garage. So for it to cost £15 extra, you must have filled up with 500 litres of fuel. Do you drive the Space Shuttle to work?

alihisgreat

Pokerface wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

on the plus side i got some petrol this morning.. the fuel light was on and i actually needed some -> had to get it from the local garage though.. paid £15 more than i would have at Tescos.

Tesco is usually AT MOST 3p a litre cheaper than your local garage. So for it to cost £15 extra, you must have filled up with 500 litres of fuel. Do you drive the Space Shuttle to work?

Yep -> screw the environmentalists



This is one of those tiny village garages -> unleaded was in the high 140s (147 i think) compared to under 140p from tescos.

you are right though.. was probably closer to £10 more.. and I was probably a little emptier than usual!

Pokerface

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

you are right though.. was probably closer to £10 more.. and I was probably a little emptier than usual!

Even with a 10p difference in prices, that would assume a fill up of 100 litres. More if the price difference is smaller.

What you probably mean is it cost you an extra fiver. My SUV only holds around 50 litres. Or do you drive something massive?


(Just trying to put things into perspective).

CambsNewbie

Pokerface wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

you are right though.. was probably closer to £10 more.. and I was probably a little emptier than usual!

Even with a 10p difference in prices, that would assume a fill up of 100 litres. More if the price difference is smaller.

What you probably mean is it cost you an extra fiver. My SUV only holds around 50 litres. Or do you drive something massive?


(Just trying to put things into perspective).

This no time for perspective! Run for the hills! It's the end of the world!

MattC59

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

bompington wrote:

Peddle Up! wrote:

ILM Zero7 wrote:

Stanley222 wrote:

Francis Maude should be sacked for causing all this bollocks! :evil:

no the tanker drivers should be sacked - kick them out - with the Stanstead airport baggage handlers (easter strike) and the tube drivers (olympic strike) - selfish greed and maximum public and country impact/disgrace

And the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Deport 'em all. :roll:

Except the Tolpuddle martyrs weren't striking for the right to improve their average £45K salary, were they?

Neither are the tanker drivers. They are considering a strike over working conditions, not wages. No strike has yet occured.

No they're not, not really ! They're striking over 'safety issues' and 'working conditions'.............. oh, and that point which they seem to be playing down, but let's face it, is the real reason............ pensions.

Pross

Absolutely ridiculous mess that the Government has caused. I can only think they were hoping to turn public opinion and convince the tanker drivers to vote against strike action. If that was the case it was a big own goal, all they had to do was make statements about the "Unions seeing sense and negotiating a settlement" as if there is a strike it doesn't take long before inconveniencing the public turns them against you. You only have to look at the 2000 fuel protest to see how a broad acceptance of the truckers / farmers point of view turned into villification when Joe Public couldn't drive anywhere to know that there would be no public support.

I had to do a 425 mile round trip yesterday and having filled up on Monday I had about 300 miles worth of fuel left. I therefore had to either fill up before leaving or risk waiting until the orange light came on 100 odd miles from home then hope I could find somewhere with fuel in stock. I opted for the former choice and 'only' had to queue at Tesco for about 10 minutes (where the fuel was 1p a litre more than on Monday) but looking at many of the other people filling up I doubt they would usually do more than 100 miles a week. On my trip it was quite odd as some petrol stations were busy but not ridiculously so whilst others had massive queues yet it didn't seem to be based on the price of fuel.

That said, this whole issue has raised one of my pet hates i.e. Unions trying to dress up a threatened strike to improve pay as an issue regarding safety and welfare. Whether the drivers earn a reasonable wage for their job I don't know (I wouldn't like the responsibility of towing around all that flammable material) but what exactly are the safety concerns they keep going on about? Surely it is just as dangerous if you are earning £50k as it would be if you are earning £30k?

MaxwellBygraves

MattC59 wrote:

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

bompington wrote:

Peddle Up! wrote:

ILM Zero7 wrote:

Stanley222 wrote:

Francis Maude should be sacked for causing all this bollocks! :evil:

no the tanker drivers should be sacked - kick them out - with the Stanstead airport baggage handlers (easter strike) and the tube drivers (olympic strike) - selfish greed and maximum public and country impact/disgrace

And the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Deport 'em all. :roll:

Except the Tolpuddle martyrs weren't striking for the right to improve their average £45K salary, were they?

Neither are the tanker drivers. They are considering a strike over working conditions, not wages. No strike has yet occured.

No they're not, not really ! They're striking over 'safety issues' and 'working conditions'.............. oh, and that point which they seem to be playing down, but let's face it, is the real reason............ pensions.

Just factually incorrect. They're not striking at all.

The drivers can hold their heads high knowing they have conducted themselves with dignity and self-respect, unlike the government. As they have always stressed, they want to negotiate a settlement rather than strike which is why today they have stated there will be no strike over Easter as the union and the employers are to sit round the table in an attempt to work out a settlement.

There has been no strike action and there is currently no date set for any strike action. I respect the fact that you might not agree with say unions or the drivers or their motivation in this instance, and I'd hope we can respectfully disagree - at least respect the fact that drivers are continuing to work as normal and are not currently taking any industrial action, instead of trying to paint them as something else.

rhext

I reckon the government got it right.

Currently people are facing a set of largely optional queues, the end result of which will be a nation full of cars well able to manage a day or two without refills.

Contrast that with the chaos likely to be caused by tanker driver strikes, when not only will the panic buying kick in big time, the forecourts will also no longer be getting topped up, and to me it seems like a sensible contingency measure.

Last time there was a scare, there were a couple of days of minor inconvenience, quickly lapsing into normality as people realised that once their tanks were full, they couldn't put any more in. The best response to a threatened tanker driver strike has to be to make sure that most people have their tanks nearly full as opposed to nearly empty.

If you were in Government how would you engineer that?

bagpusscp

Stop press.....

Can all people going on holiday within the easter period please take their luggage to the airport early,so as it can all be loaded onto the planes in advance......This measure will make the depending strike by baggage handlers pointless.

MattC59

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

bompington wrote:

Peddle Up! wrote:

ILM Zero7 wrote:

Stanley222 wrote:

Francis Maude should be sacked for causing all this bollocks! :evil:

no the tanker drivers should be sacked - kick them out - with the Stanstead airport baggage handlers (easter strike) and the tube drivers (olympic strike) - selfish greed and maximum public and country impact/disgrace

And the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Deport 'em all. :roll:

Except the Tolpuddle martyrs weren't striking for the right to improve their average £45K salary, were they?

Neither are the tanker drivers. They are considering a strike over working conditions, not wages. No strike has yet occured.

No they're not, not really ! They're striking over 'safety issues' and 'working conditions'.............. oh, and that point which they seem to be playing down, but let's face it, is the real reason............ pensions.

Just factually incorrect. They're not striking at all.

The drivers can hold their heads high knowing they have conducted themselves with dignity and self-respect, unlike the government. As they have always stressed, they want to negotiate a settlement rather than strike which is why today they have stated there will be no strike over Easter as the union and the employers are to sit round the table in an attempt to work out a settlement.

There has been no strike action and there is currently no date set for any strike action. I respect the fact that you might not agree with say unions or the drivers or their motivation in this instance, and I'd hope we can respectfully disagree - at least respect the fact that drivers are continuing to work as normal and are not currently taking any industrial action, instead of trying to paint them as something else.

Yeah yeah yeah, you know what I mean

Aren't the drivers continuing to work as normal because a strike hasn't been called, and if they don't give proper notice, and dont' go into work, they won't get paid some of that £45k pa ?

Of course they want to negotiate a settlement rather than strike. With the army being trained to carry out deliveries, a strike will only serve to impact the money in their pockets.

Pross

I'm pretty sure they won't get their pay when they strike even when it follows the correct procedure. The 7 days just makes it legal so they won't all get banged up.

MattC59

Pross wrote:

I'm pretty sure they won't get their pay when they strike even when it follows the correct procedure. The 7 days just makes it legal so they won't all get banged up.

Good point, that's what I meant, but I was thinking about the next sentence and got all confused !

(Clearly I can't think and type as well as I thought I could :roll: )